RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 7:46:40)

A Cyber Hunter's suggestion towards repairing Cyber Hunters

i) Steps

►Remove Plasma Armour

►Remove Shadow Arts

►Remove Malfunction

►Remove Cheap Shot

►Add Plasma Aura

►Add Cyber Arts

►Add Blue Ruin

►Add Energy Shield

ii) Descriptions

▼Plasma Aura▼

If a user of Plasma Aura is struck by a Primary weapon, the attacker is dealt bonus shock damage.

Level 1: Attacker takes 1% of their total health in damage.
Level 2: Attacker takes 2% of their total health in damage.
Level 3: Attacker takes 3% of their total health in damage.
Level 4: Attacker takes 4% of their total health in damage.
Level 5: Attacker takes 5% of their total health in damage.
Level 6: Attacker takes 6% of their total health in damage.
Level 7: Attacker takes 7% of their total health in damage.
Level 8: Attacker takes 8% of their total health in damage.
Level 9: Attacker takes 9% of their total health in damage.
Level 10: Attacker takes 10% of their total health in damage.

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: replaces Plasma Armour
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 0

▼Cyber Arts▼

Passively increases the Primary hit rate and resistance to poison.

Level 1: 1% increase to Primary hit rate and 10% resistance to poison
Level 1: 2% increase to Primary hit rate and 15% resistance to poison
Level 1: 3% increase to Primary hit rate and 20% resistance to poison
Level 1: 4% increase to Primary hit rate and 25% resistance to poison
Level 1: 5% increase to Primary hit rate and 30% resistance to poison
Level 1: 6% increase to Primary hit rate and 35% resistance to poison
Level 1: 7% increase to Primary hit rate and 40% resistance to poison
Level 1: 8% increase to Primary hit rate and 44% resistance to poison
Level 1: 9% increase to Primary hit rate and 47% resistance to poison
Level 1: 10% increase to Primary hit rate and 50% resistance to poison.

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: 24 Technology (+2 per skill level) (MAX 42 Technology)
Level Required: replaces Shadow Arts
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 0

▼Blue Ruin▼

Assail an enemy with 2 devastating strikes with the held Primary weapon. The player using Blue Ruin is charged with blue plasma.

Energy Required:

Level 1: 14
Level 2: 16
Level 3: 18
Level 4: 20
Level 5: 22
Level 6: 24
Level 7: 26
Level 8: 28
Level 9: 30
Level 10: 32

Damage Progressions:

Level 1: 23% more damage
Level 2: 26% more damage
Level 3: 29% more damage
Level 4: 32% more damage
Level 5: 35% more damage
Level 6: 38% more damage
Level 7: 41% more damage
Level 8: 44% more damage
Level 9: 47% more damage
Level 10: 50% more damage

Weapon Required: Wrist blades or Sword
Stat Required: 26 Support (+1 per skill level)
Level Required: replaces Cheap Shot
Improves With: Strength
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 2

Energy Shield

Increases energy resistance for you or an ally during combat.


Energy Required:

Level 1: 14
Level 2: 16
Level 3: 18
Level 4: 20
Level 5: 22
Level 6: 24
Level 7: 26
Level 8: 28
Level 9: 30
Level 10: 32

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: replaces Malfunction
Improves With: Support (+1 Resistance per 4 Support)
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 2

Static Charge conflict: This skill is cruel to Cyber Hunters who did not choose Strength as a key stat in their builds. Due to this, Strength Cyber Hunters advance further than any other Cyber Hunter including but not limited to any preference of Dexterity, Technology, or Support. I propose an edit which will scale energy output only to the Primary weapon's damage. Values may need a nerf.

Questions? I will try to answer them.
Comments? Feedback is appreciated.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 7:46:45)

@Void
Sorry but it's true. Proofreading before writing would help. Srsly.

Yep I know.
Btw, CHs are getting the nerf during tomorrow's release along with TLMs.



Striker44 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 8:06:03)

@Trans
Do you know in what way will getting nerf CH's ? Becouse if they don't lose malf , TLM's is gonna be the only CLASS without any debuff skill [:@]




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 8:08:24)

@Striker
My bets are either Plasma Armor leaving; highly doubt, as if they did then TLMs would lose it too. Otherwise probably Malf being gone too and change to Static Charge (either weaker and 3 turn cooldown OR making it passive in some way + weaker).
Yeah they won't have debuff but their skills are already quite good, TLMs, and go together nicely. BMs only have Intimidate which is situational if you wanna count it as debuff.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 12:18:20)

quote:

STAIC SHEILD:
Uses up a whole static charge (If blocked it still activates, and sends it into cool down)
and convertes a % of the energy regain from the skill into an energy sheild wich lasts 4 turns and grows in defence each time you are dmaaged (charges itsself)

Each time you are hit 5% of the dmagae tacken is added to the sheild
warm up :0 Cool down :2
lvl 1: 20% of the static charge
lvl2: 25% of the static charge
lvl3: 30%
lvl4: 33%
lvl 5 36%
lvl6: 39%
lvl7: 42%
lvl8: 44%
lvl9: 46%
max: 48%

For example:
A cyber hunter has lvl 1 static sheild and decides to use it.
on clciking this skill they use static charge like normal as if they cliked static charge but instead they clciked static sheild (it sends static charge into cool down also), excpet they gain NO energy from it but a % of the energy regain is turned into a sheild in this example the cyber hunter gets a static charge of 20 energy. 20% of 20 =4
So they have an energy sheild of 4 added for 4 turns yes it is low but its only level one and it grows in power as they are damaged.
For example they are agianst a blood mage which uses fireball and it hits 50 damagae onto them, 5% of the 50 dmagae is added to the sheilds 5% of 50=2.5 rounded to 3 so they gain an extra 3 energy sheild onto the 4 so they now have 7 energy sheild with 3 turns remaning and so on and so forth.

NOTE: skill tree would need to be aranged so static sheild came after static charge and you have to go through static charge to get it, so in other words the player cant have static sheild without static charge hence stuff up the system.


After reading this suggestion I have considered it. If my mentioned beckon to fix Static Charge is not met, your suggestion Remorse is a fine fix. My edits to this skill, though, would be to add this data INTO Static Charge. Static Charge would become Static Charge + Static Shield. If Static Charge is blocked, create a damage absorbing shield for ALL types of damage. When this shield runs out of shielding points, it dissipates. My edit would be, however, that the value you get from Static Charge (example: 20 energy), becomes that amount of shielding. Shields do not stack. For example: your 20 energy Static Charge which is blocked, converts into a 20 damage point shield to defend from attacks.

quote:

@Depressed

How about these options for Blue Aura?

a) Attacker with Strike takes up to 20% DMG done by him/her

b) Add a cooldown period for the skill.

Now, for STR Nerfs:

When you use a Nerf Skill, it doesn't do DMG at all. This would reduce STR Build DMG, as well as allow Defensive players to save some HP. IMO, this should also apply to the Azrael Stinger though.

This does not count towards Intimidate or Curse.


20% reflection onto the attacker? 20% of 95 health is 19 damage, and 20% of 125 health is 25 damage. Sure, the passive may only be working some of the time, however... 20% of the enemy's health is gone. In 4 more Strikes, the enemy is close to 1 health now. This would seem to bit a bit too quick in my opinion, but thanks for that suggestion Drinde. [;)]

Cool-down period for a passive? How so? Do you want to be able to give the enemy a window of opportunity by allowing them free Striking at no expense? The main purpose of Plasma Armour is to negate Strength abusers by countering their strategy. Placing holes in this defence may mean that Strength users will not fall to Plasma Armour. I tried to see the good in this suggestion but it seems to counteract the true intention, sorry.

The nerf cancellation is a good suggestion though. Buffers do not inflict damage, so nerfs should not as well. Good thinking. [;)]

quote:


@Depressed Void

A few suggestions to your post:

Plasma Aura Cyber Arts: How about instead of ignoring 50% poison, make it a 30-40% chance to ignore poison altogether each turn it DoTs?

Since ignoring 50% each turn seems OP... :P

I'd put Plasma Aura in, Plasma Armor out, Cheapshot out, Technician in.


50% poison resistance is somewhat powerful to poison players, however, Cyber Hunters with my suggestion no longer have armour, making them even MORE vulnerable. Poison does not affect rage and cannot be altered, so I had decided that this ability to remove the harmful effects of poison would be a good step. I have also calculated that 17% of all players theoretically use poison, making poison only 17% effective, 100% of the time. [8D]

It would seem that Cyber Arts' poison resistance would actually look UP. 'v'

I was contemplating whether or not I wanted Technician back, or Energy Shield. Technician would help improve focus users of the CH type. And without Plasma Armour, focus would be more or less balanced. My #1 issue of considering technician is a multitude of imperfections:

-improving with dexterity

-giving a lower value of resistance

-requiring many skill points

-becoming futile to the Azrael Borg

I would still consider technician, if the skill gets buffed. Then I would gladly take out Energy Shield for Technician.


THANKS FOR YOUR TIME GUYS.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 13:28:25)

@Ashari I just realized if you guys remove smoke TLMs will be the only class without debuff skills! That is completely unfair you are gonna have to keep our smoke and find another way to nerf us and CHs!



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 13:38:39)

Sure, lets take away tlm's reroute and atom smasher.

In their place tlm would get a more powerful assimilation.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 13:40:15)

@Depressed Void Very funny. Nice sarcasm.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 13:42:06)

Actually.

In all honesty that was a fraction of innovation.



Sageofpeace -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 15:48:14)

why not just take reroute and poison as well and call the class mercenary two with the same skill



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 15:59:23)

I know that many Tactical Mercenaries disagree with using Atom Smasher... I have been commented to before regarding the block rate of the skill. I have thought of something perhaps a little bit more useful and a general nerf to a Mercenary class whom are able to reload and spam powerful attacks of the Strength or Support genre.

What if Tactical Mercenary lost their Reroute and Atom Smasher... which would be replaced by this skill:

Tactical Assimilation:

Drains as much energy as EMP Greanade, and restores half of the amount to the user. Cannot be blocked.

No energy cost.
Weapon Required: Club [or None]
Stat Required: None
Level Required: replaces Reroute
Improves With: Dexterity OR Technology [whichever suits the class better] (+1 energy drain at 24 Tech/Dex; +1 energy drain per 3 Tech/Dex after)
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 3 OR 4?!



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:16:15)

Just read that TLM is losing their smokescreen? What will replace it? This will surely make BM's more even with TLM's!



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:18:34)

@playarn
Field Commander. It'll be getting a buff just like Devs told us a while ago so it's more useful but not at the current time. Change was going to happen to FC and Intimidate to make them more useful, and the buff which FC had sometime ago is to make it less useless (temporary buff).



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:19:24)

Ninja too slow!

Throwing smoke bomb!

*disappears*



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:20:34)

Sounds great! Their ability to take my dex away (as BM) have made them block me way to much! This will be a great balance update, might even be able to start play 1vs1 again [:D]



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:24:21)

@playarn
CHs are expecting a change too! c: My bets are around something: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=20122075 <- of that. It seems most reasonable if they are keeping passive Armors.
3 skills: Energy/HP Regen, debuff and Passive Armor - class can just have 2 (all do but CH and TLM) so TLMs lost debuff and got other 2 and I guess CH will follow that example too. But SC getting a bit nerfed too as 2 turns cooldown is still killer with Dex builds who don't rely on Malf (or have it on Lvl 1 only xD).



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:27:49)

@Trans,

You have set the alarm off. Now you have to explain to me why Plasma Armour should stay with Cyber Hunters. Otherwise your idea is as valid as my own.



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:29:21)

Yea CH's do need a nerf. Right away ^_^



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:31:52)

@Void
Only reason would be to follow TLMs example, that was my only one really. If Malf + SC get taken away and nerfed then Dex builds still can do good Multi build without Malf and just use Multi once instead of easy loop which I said somewhere else too. I have no other reason. Both changes would be good but if Plasma stays and other 2 get changed as I said then Dex builds can still dominate too much.

@below
What do you mean not tomorrow? NW said that balance changes for higher Lvls are planned for Friday, it changed? o.o



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:33:06)

Well at least the update wont be tommorow so we still have a whole week left until we TLMs get destroyed! The countdown begins! [:D]



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:42:34)

I dont see how TLM's will be destroyed. They are being balanced? Now it is a evolved merc class. Not a OP class. Now a nerf on CH is needed and the balance might be good. (And a buff on merc)



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:44:26)

quote:

Only reason would be to follow TLMs example, that was my only one really.


So where is the originality in that? If all CH wanted to be tanks, that would be fine. Problems are, one class achieves a stat bonus over other classes. You can convert passive armour points into stat points (eg dex or tec) in value and see the difference.

A common occurrence is level 10 of a passive armour. Right now that is = to 13 armour points. 1 armour point (defense or resistance) is approximately = 4 stat points. Because armours are passive and are in effect on the enemy's turn 100% of the time, armour users gain an approximate stat advantage of 52 stat points (13 * 4) 100% of the time.

There are players who own deadly aim, but that instance is only in effect during a Sidearm attack, but then again... Sidearms are half of the base Strength damage (because Strike is the other half), making Sidearm bonuses only 50% efficient... and only when the gun is used.

Armours are 100% proficient 100% of the time. Unfair advantage has been discovered!

To remove the benefit of armour point compromization, we must remove the benefit of having Cyber Hunters owning an armour (Plasma Armour). There is the freedom of Dexterity and this is much too much of an advantage especially when in melee duels. The players... if they have similar damage output, are going to be offset by differences in melee accuracy. This is a reason why I do not appreciate Plasma Armour. Even since the beginning.

Instead I have designed a threat to Strength Abusers to take more care. The following skill promotes awareness and strategy:

▼Plasma Aura▼

If a user of Plasma Aura is struck by a Primary weapon, the attacker is dealt bonus shock damage.

Level 1: Attacker takes 1% of their total health in damage.
Level 2: Attacker takes 2% of their total health in damage.
Level 3: Attacker takes 3% of their total health in damage.
Level 4: Attacker takes 4% of their total health in damage.
Level 5: Attacker takes 5% of their total health in damage.
Level 6: Attacker takes 6% of their total health in damage.
Level 7: Attacker takes 7% of their total health in damage.
Level 8: Attacker takes 8% of their total health in damage.
Level 9: Attacker takes 9% of their total health in damage.
Level 10: Attacker takes 10% of their total health in damage.

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: replaces Plasma Armour
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 0



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:45:10)

@playarn Because smoke screen is a vital part of our skill tree and now they are taking it away. Without smoke we will be the only class without a debuff and have the weakest buff that is totally useless at high levels if your opponent has Azrael's Bot which is very popular right now.



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:49:04)

Smoke screen is a part of STR abusers which need to be cut down. So this is only good... if you rather get intimidate then FC (would kill TLM STR builds even more) since you want a debuff skill. I'd support that. As pretty much everyone have assault bot aint these debuff skills of much use, tbh.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/1/2012 16:50:01)

I think CH would be fine going back to Technician and losing Plasma Armour. Would mean 2 classes each have either Blood Shield, Reflex Boost or Technician.
wasn't that many complaints about CH when they had to sacrifice defences to do decent damage and also had to outsmart their opponents to win.

For TLM the main issue is Mineral Armor [MA]. Stifles creativity by being too OP to leave out of build and unbalances the game by giving them a large amount
of extra stat points to spend on whatever they want. I'd prefer to see them lose MA and keep Smoke Screen, or lose both I suppose.


Field Commander: got a feeling it will become like Deadly Aim, for primary damage.



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