RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (Full Version)

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rej -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 16:35:04)

Now if they can just fix the Cyber Hunter issue, my entire wish list for this month will be fulfilled.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 16:40:58)

All I can still say is, if Titan and team decides to replace Plasma Armour and Shadow Arts with Deadly Aim and Destructive Aim (Auxiliary version), Cyber Hunters lose tankosity and heal-loop and focus aptness.

Also, to cover their loss in resistance, Energy Shield (remove malfunction). It costs 1 turn and an amount of energy... something Cyber Hunters wouldn't mind.

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I should also add that giving CHs Deadly Aim and Destructive Aim isn't a bad idea at all come to think of it.

quote:

What if CH max out these passives, wouldn't that make them OP?


If CH max out DeaA and DesS, they would have spent 20 skill points improving ranged weapon damage. They would have 10-15 skill points maximum left to spend on other needed skills: Static Charge, Field Medic, Defense Matrix, Energy Shield, Multi-shot, Massacre.

Its a win/win situation with this option.

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And if DeaA and DesA display themselves as OP, we can nerf them! Lower damage, and it will be solved.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 16:52:25)

@void Max both those passives, use Maxed malf, and energy gun and auxes. A support mage could take out 40-50 with just Deadly Aim and a gun. Their aux would take 50+. Why does it seem like a good idea to give CHs the ability to add even more damage to both their unblockable attacks?



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 16:52:30)

quote:

Now if they can just fix the Cyber Hunter issue, my entire wish list for this month will be fulfilled.


What CH issue?

Replace SA with Deadly Aim please. Then I will become CH.



rej -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 16:53:15)

^Better yet, simply remove plasma armor and replace it with energy shield. That would take away their ability to spend most of their stats in dex, thus removing their 25%+ block chance.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 16:54:30)

Eh, keep Plasma Armor. Why do Tac Merc's get Mineral Armor then?



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 17:00:15)

@ND Mallet,

If unblockables prove too advantageous then DeaA and DesA can be damage nerf'd specifically for the CH class.

I was going to suggest Deadly Reflexes (improves Primary damage passively), but as you can imagine, Strike, an infinite skill, with a class that possesses cheap shot and massacre... wouldn't be very balanced. [:D]

I look @ CH and ask why they are armoured. They are a hunter class, so they should be devastating and nimble but lacking protection, yes?

If we can get a balanced passive boost to their gun and launcher without intimidating other players with damage, it could just work.

CH may also not need malfunction.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 17:05:01)

Auxes don't need a skill improving their damage because they already possess such high damage in the first place. Also, there is no possible way to nerf Deadly Aim for only one class. You can but it will require making a different skill for them entirely with a new name. They're not going to bother with all that when they could just avoid the whole situation and not give the class two passives for increasing unblockable damage.

Edit: If you look at it, you're really making a new version of the OPd support mage build. Less healing potential because FM heal doesn't improve but the fact that they get two passive unblockable damages with malf. If they give Destructive Aim, then Malf needs to go. You wouldn't give Tech Mages Deadly Aim and a defensive nerf that increases with strength would you? Why would you give a skill that improves the damage of a weapon that improves with the same stat as Malf?



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 17:13:49)

^ CH (DA%) = DA - new%

A simple check that determines which class the player is can be used to specifically nerf CH's DA, or any class' skill for that matter.

Auxiliary is high-powered, yes. However, I had already mentioned multiple times that if a player with a passive aux buff is out of normal damage range we can nerf that. Also recall that Auxiliaries have the largest cooldown of 3 turns. Your favourite weapon of 3 turns cannot be relied on within the turns it is recharging.

quote:

They're not going to bother with all that when they could just avoid the whole situation and not give the class two passives for increasing unblockable damage act lazy OR cowardly and not fix their problems.


^ That is essentially what you just threw at me.

I could go on for days defending why CH should switch their defensive trait with offence, can you keep up?



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 17:22:25)

Why waste time making new skills to nerf a class that may just end up making it more OPd in the end? You wouldn't waste your time gluing a stapler to your science project to see if it would work out, and paint it different colors and glue little eyes to it in hopes that it looks okay and performs its function when you could use something much easier. They already have a way of fixing CH and it's called "replacing the Ultimate and Multi attacks of the evolved classes." The problem builds of CHs are strength and dex abuse. What do those stats improve again? Massacre and Multi Shot, which are planned on being replaced anyways.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 17:36:30)

http://i39.tinypic.com/2nhp2jd.png

quote:

Why waste time making new skills to nerf a class that may just end up making it more OPd in the end? You wouldn't waste your time gluing a stapler to your science project to see if it would work out, and paint it different colors and glue little eyes to it in hopes that it looks okay and performs its function when you could use something much easier.


You are... using an analogy to say that repairing a broken cornerstone is a waste of time?

quote:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." ~ Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943


There are so many innovations in the world as there are people who don't place their faith or hopes in others and results happened inversely because they were absolute (one-sided). These results were not in their scope nor could they ever predict what change they would bring.

quote:

The problem builds of CHs are strength and dex abuse. What do those stats improve again? Massacre and Multi Shot, which are planned on being replaced anyways.


Gotcha. I mean, CAPTCHA! Strength and dexterity, eh? Well, I don't know about you, but utilizing Sidearms and Auxiliaries is a means of Strength, TECHNOLOGY, and SUPPORT.

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EDIT: Take your time, I'm planning my next area of attack.

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EDIT2: *Maniacal laughter* *the pills start to take effect* Come ooooon, I'm waiting, and anxious.

IMG tags removed. ~Mecha



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 17:51:12)

@above Are you mixing up your stat suggestions with the actual stats? Sidearm and Aux improve with strength and support only. Tech affects deflect rate but relying on luck to win against an enemy abusing stats is not a good idea. Mages managed to have barely any strength and still deal 40+ to you with a sidearm. Why? Because Malf more than made up for the lack of strength in their builds. That skill tree has 2 shields in it, both improving with support and malf does as well. Plus a skill that improves aux damage which also improves with support. TLMs had a problem with being able to have increased damage and defenses. And just what are you doing with that skill tree suggestion of yours? The exact same thing as TLMs used to be.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 18:06:37)

I'm in the middle of making suggestions, but I'll respond to your post.

quote:

Are you mixing up your stat suggestions with the actual stats? Sidearm and Aux improve with strength and support only. Tech affects deflect rate but relying on luck to win against an enemy abusing stats is not a good idea.


My stat suggestions are not involved in this reality we are discussing (although I concur, everything is an illusion). Technology DOES count to "improving" or scaling with Auxiliaries/Sidearms. How does it not? Technology is the new factor concerning ranged weapon accuracy, and without accuracy, these ranged weapons come to nothing. You can have allllllll of the STR and SUP in the world but if you lose out to TEC then nearly every single move with your ranged weapons will only be half as strong.

THAT, is why technology "improves" the ranged weapons.

quote:

That skill tree has 2 shields in it, both improving with support and malf does as well.


Hold on, before you continue, MY skill tree has no malfunction. Therefore, no advantage in ranged weapon accuracy.

quote:

The exact same thing as TLMs used to be.


Say what?

TlM is: Field Medic, Double Strike, Mineral Armor, Stun Grenade, Blood Shield, Smoke Screen, Reroute, Frenzy, Artillery Strike, Surgical Strike, Atom Smasher, Toxic Grenade.

You have named 1 skill skill that matches with my skill tree... FIELD MEDIC. To be honest though, you named ZERO correct matches, since all classes have field medic.

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EDIT: You can continue discussing the physics of EpicDuel with yours truly, greenrain13, or you can give up your objection. I have MANY hours to spare for this.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 20:22:54)

I'll spam Dex, Tech and Support and max out both those passives. I now can hit you with little deflections and tank you while doing good damage to you. No matter what, those skills together will buff CHs. It will buff strength builds and it will buff the tank builds. Instead of a strength build relying on one unblockable weapon, they have two. Same for support tanks. What if they fight a strength abuser? No problems, they have two shields they can spam with support.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 20:34:02)

@ND Mallet,

Give me an example of a build with this skill tree...



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 21:15:59)

@above I would but you could just go into 2vs2 and find one yourself and save us both time. A tank CH really isn't the hardest thing to find in this game.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 21:18:54)

^I just fought like 15 Tank CHs already today.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 21:26:10)

First of all, we were on a roll here, discussing the ins and outs of the posted CH suggestions (including the image) made. YOU CANNOT FIND A CYBER HUNTER WHO'S SKILL TREE CONTAINS DA OR ES. So how am supposed to find a CH "tank" who's build does not include plasma armour, hmm?

I have been trying to no avail to you, propose a fix to CH because a skill like plasma armour for CH is OP, and a skill like SA for CH is unreliable, potentially UP. These do not balance out. Anyone could easily max plasma armour without considering SA ever.



Whirlwindstorm2 -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 21:29:51)

^ I think he was responding to Reyes, but idk lol



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview (2/5/2012 23:21:42)

I know I keep saying this, but either every class gets a top debuff and passive armor, or no classes should have them. they offer such an advantage
that any class without is on the backfoot usually. the original idea was that if you got a passive armor like Hybrid then you don't get a debuff for res/def
but now we have 2 classes with both and the imbalance is clear for all to see. CHs and TLMs have a big advantage that no other class has, and the only
really successful BHs or BMs are those using strength builds [if their are many successful 5 focus BHs or BMs then I stand corrected]

combined with the increase in defences offered by passive armor and the reduction of your enemies def/res by either malfunction or smoke screen, they
also have extra stat points to spend on either offence or defence, because for the other classes to get that extra +12 res/def they must invest 35+ stat
points into either dexterity or technology. I think TLMs and Cybers would be fine without their passive armor, regular Mercs could keep Hybrid to cover
having no debuff still [Intimidate doesn't really count, hoping it gets buffed to lower strength AND support]



Basicball -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview - Release is live! (2/7/2012 9:12:22)

i just totally bough naomi's second last E tesla armor ;p



midnight assassin -> RE: =ED= EpicDuel Feb 1st Design Notes - Heart Breaker preview - Release is live! (2/7/2012 10:23:10)

^Nice one. I was so unlucky that I didn't get the mutating weapon.



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