=ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (Full Version)

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RabbleFroth -> =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 17:44:18)

Hey all,

For the past few weeks we've been working on re-statting nearly every weapon in EpicDuel.

Why are we doing this, you ask? Well, currently item stats are all over the place. There are some weapons which are must haves for 5-10 levels at a time, and if you don't use them, you're at a disadvantage. This initiative aims to fix this and several other issues.

The goals here are:
1) Clear weapon progression. Higher level weapons should always be an upgrade.
2) Make item choices easier. You should be able to easily compare weapons and see which one is best for your build.
3) Make every weapon a viable choice.
4) Make the weapons scale gracefully into the high levels.

To help illustrate why this is so important, here's a picture! --> LINK <--
This is a rough view of how strong each Wrist Blade is at each level. Notice on the right how their power level is all over the place. There's also a pretty big jump after level 30 in power.


Now, onto how this is going to affect things:
1) In general, damage and/or stats on a weapon will be increased.
2) High level weapons (31+) in general will not change much, if at all.
3) Being matched with lower level players in 2v2 should be less punishing, especially at higher levels, because there isn't such a big jump in weapon power now.
4) There should be few or no "must-have" weapons as you level up.

As far as getting this released, this Friday is the goal.

Comments/questions welcome!

Regards,
Froth

Tagged and bagged! ~Practel



PD -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 17:46:31)

Woohoo Finally! Hopefully this'll finally fix Stat Inflation.

Been a LONG time since anyone has addressed Stat Inflation as a major issue. Guess my years of yelling at the ED Staff have finally come to something :P

By the way, what is the "Power" (Or Y) axis based on? Is it based on Stats + Base Damages? I also notice that a lot of dots are still below the Line of Best Fit. How are you guys taking into account the differences of item power within levels?



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 17:48:18)

Brilliant work of bringing items closer to the medium line Rabble.

I hope I see less Mjolnirs in total afterwards.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 17:55:35)

Hmm..
If amount of stats is getting raised, well to current standards, would that mean enhancements did get a bit weaker? I mean in a good way - less difference;
Bigger amount of stats helps to make up for the power at some levels so you can still compete although difference should be small but not as big.

Anyway, this should definitely be a major buff really for everyone using older items because they have to. And yay for making every weapon useful. \o/

Questions:
Are enhancements slots affected by it? Mainly their amount, is it variable at different levels or fixed number?
And any chance of getting formula released to public or sheet with calculations? For those math geeks. :3



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 17:58:05)

good thing I switched off of Caden's Wraith that trusty weapon of mine might have became my curse(weapon humor that only some will get)



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:07:30)

RabbleFroth, all this is impressive, but I would want that they release weapons with diversity of stats, not focusing on defensive stats or offensive stats, but having a mix of one or both.
Requirements on strength/support are sometimes punishing for many class, lets take serpent striker which has a 41 strength requirement and not only that but offers +4 strength stat mods, please mind the requirements and stats of some weapons, if one weapon abuses a stat, make the weapon have a requirement on the opposite stat, e.g. it offers +10 Strength, it will have a 38 support requirement, that should stop abusers, but also varying the requirements if it offers strength, make it sometimes technology or dexterity requirements. That is just an idea of what could help with more builds, sometimes requirements screw up some builds I make, and it kinda irritates to have +41 support/strength requirements weapons. Hope you can make something about this and have a good day.



RabbleFroth -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:07:52)

The way power is represented on the graph isn't entirely accurate, but it was good enough to show the difference in before to now.

Enhancement slots were completely untouched in this update. Not sure what the plan is there yet, if anything.
EDIT: Weapon requirements are also untouched in this update. Again, not sure what the plan is for them. Ideally we'd like to remove them entirely, but that would potentially require completely changing how stats work to prevent stat abuse.



Basicball -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:09:51)

please note that juggrnaut fights will get quite a lot more difficult because of this.
please take measures (like re-adjusting the level range by 1-2 levels) BEFORE they cause ploblems!

thank you :3

also, i take it Ths is true? xD *clicky*



RabbleFroth -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:29:16)

quote:

also, i take it Ths is true? xD


Those are actually the Pin Blades.

Here's a fun one: Find Mjolnir!
--> Old Clubs <--



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:29:19)

quote:

Weapon requirements are also untouched in this update. Again, not sure what the plan is for them. Ideally we'd like to remove them entirely, but that would potentially require completely changing how stats work to prevent stat abuse.


Thank you for saying something that brought a tear of happiness to my eye Rabblefroth.

If it helps to prevent stat abuse, at the same time you remove weapon requirements, potentially remove improvements on skills by stats, is one way to slow down the power gain in investing in a stat.

Field Medic not improving with Support did SO well in stopping Support exploiting Tactical Mercenaries.

If you can scale fixed damages and damage ranges by character level like you scaled weapons by level, I think that we would be heading in the right direction for balance as a whole.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:34:55)

quote:

EDIT: Weapon requirements are also untouched in this update. Again, not sure what the plan is for them. Ideally we'd like to remove them entirely, but that would potentially require completely changing how stats work to prevent stat abuse.


Few quick solutions would probably be adding penalities for having high/abusive stat like reduced damage, defences, etc - sort of like what Agility does with HP but at a larger scale as stat abuse would really be possible without requirements. Other could be change of how skills improve - change ranges from +4 to something bigger; it'd take longer to get more power but you'd have freedom to do so rather than go with requirements first as well as putting diminishing on stats earlier and bigger due to that freedom although I'd say lower range wouldn't need changing but higher range would need looking at + implementing penalities to prevent abuse.
Requirements on skills wouldn't be an option as it'd defeat taking off requirements on weapons although some skills right now can be abused due to no requirement like Caster TMs (Tech abuse ones).



Basicball -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:42:40)

that is one OP staff-only weapon then xD

you cheating h4x0rs =0 (just kidding :3)

This?

also, personally, i'd rather wait another week then have impossible jugg fights for X amount of time.

just my opinion since i have no idea whatsoever what your plan on this are ;p



P.S.: I'm good at numbers and maths, if you ever need help calculting something to get some extra time or something, let me know ;^)



Sipping Cider -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:44:51)

quote:

Weapon requirements are also untouched in this update. Again, not sure what the plan is for them. Ideally we'd like to remove them entirely, but that would potentially require completely changing how stats work to prevent stat abuse.



That is the most exciting thing I have heard in a long while, and I have heard pretty darn exciting things for this game lately. I understand that requirements help ballance weapons, but it is so annoying having to worry about them when building a build. Plus, the free retrain you get with changing a class is useless since you can not equip your weapons due to requirements untill after that free retrain. Then its another retrain to get the stats right.



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:46:54)

That one is easy RabbleFroth, Mjolinir is lvl 23, go to the lvl 23 column and the highest on it is mjolnir ( quite lazy to make an image pointing it out xD)



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 18:47:12)

@Basicball- u was faster than me, i'm agreed with you 100%....Juggernauts will be more harder, i
@Froth- don't want to say same words twice, because he already was faster than me :33 maybe next time...
so i hope you take in consider juggernauts after this improvement because this is seems like specified for solo more than another battle mode...
Thanks...



rej -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 19:27:08)

*Notices that in the graph of the old blades, there is one pair at level 25 that is nearly at 100 power.*
Hmm, I hope those are not the beta claws....
Aw, Basic. You ninja'd me on that.
I agree with you on Juggernaut. If lower level weapon's power levels are adjusted, Juggernaut will also have to be adjusted to keep it at a reasonable difficulty level, especially for those non varium Juggernauts out there.



RabbleFroth -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 19:36:24)

Regarding my comment on redoing stats to get rid of abuse, etc: There is nothing like this currently in the works. A change like that is pretty game-changing, so it would take a lot of careful planning and testing to get right.
Hope I didn't get anyone's hopes up thinking a change like that was coming out this week or anything. :(



Basicball -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 19:43:50)

nah, don't worry about it Rabble ;)



Donny The Ultimate -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 19:45:07)

Interesting.



Basicball -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 19:56:00)

oh, btw, i luuuuuuuuuuuuuuve graphs and statistics and numbers and ...

i'll eat all you can feed me



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 19:56:44)

Take your time with vital changes, we can wait. Really, no joke. Only if a fellow player has tunnel vision in seeing you meet your deadlines... but don't worry, we will silence them.
[>:]

I hope Hun Kingq will be a little more relaxed after this move to change weapons including his obsessed Beta ordeal.



JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 20:39:31)

Will Kurz Elite change at all?

Can you make a tread so people can ask things like this



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 21:13:56)

^

I think Rabble made this thread with the intent of communicating work-task concerns with us, so you can ask here. :p

And to answer your question, nothing above level 25, which includes your Kurz Elite at level 33 (33... right?).



Thylek Shran -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 21:25:58)

quote:

Comments/questions welcome!

If you could make a detailed list of all the changes please.
It will take hours to update the ED Compendium and Wiki.



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= Weapon Stats Rehaul (3/28/2012 21:29:29)

I'm confused with the term 'power' in the graph. What exactly is it representing? Weapon damage or overall power of the player?



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