RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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gangster a -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/17/2012 11:08:04)

^ cant they nerf the classes by level so lets say its only 4 rounds instead of the 5 for players under level 25?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/17/2012 11:15:32)

And if Lvl 24 fights Lvl 25, they get advantage of smaller cooldown whilst Lvl 25 has +4 more stat points to compensate for it. It isn't feasible. Besides why nerf damage or levels if 2 requirements, swapping, would fix Caster issue? We all know current Casters have Reroute, Bolt, and SC so that's Tech and Dex requirement which they don't mind due to both being defensive stats which favour them with high HP. Support and Str aren't so they cannot neglect these 2 stats for favour of abuse, so this means at least 30 points less in their Tech with Beta weapons. If you put on normal weapons with requirements, you will knock off few more from Tech which will bring them down to maybe 100-110 Tech with normal defences and attack power instead of base values as of now.



Battle Elf -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/17/2012 12:02:39)

Is Juggernaut ever going to be balanced? I've heard that the staff are working on it, but that's been said countless times.



essenceend -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/17/2012 15:57:01)

I think We should just tone down skills a little bit. Such as bunker buster and artillery strike, those can easily be overpowered. So to solve it , weaken skill's A little bit for every class,



skeletondude -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/17/2012 16:04:47)

Juggernaut needs some serious fixing.

1. The level range should get lowered 26-29 because alot of level 30's and 31's seem to have the same weapons as a lvl 34 making it impossible to win unless you get lucky.
2. There is some thing seriously wrong the luck factor in juggernaut.
3. Juggernauts should go first.

I have alot more fixes I want to discuss but i can't remember.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/17/2012 17:10:58)

^
Try scaling based on total stats instead of level, a 29 can still get 33 gear which is almost the same as 34 gear after all.

New BM skill tree to nerf strength BMs?
Heal-> Plasma Cannon
Fireball-> Intimidate-> 1) Reflex Boost 2) Bloodlust-> 1) Bezerker 2) Super Charge
Energy Shield-> Overload-> Plasma Rain-> Deadly Aim
Tier 1: Heal, Fireball, Energy Shield
Tier 2: Plasma Cannon, Intimidate, Overload
Tier 3: Reflex Boost, Bloodlust, Plasma Rain
Tier 4: Bezerker, Supercharge, Deadly Aim
Pros: Strength BMs now have to use 3 more skill points to get all the skills they want, high dexterity BMs will not have to put a point into bezerker for RB making their builds better.
Cons: Might be hard to program, won't fix the entire problem.

Also half the rage gain from attacking, it makes shields like DM and ES useless against strength BMs because they get rage every 3-4 turns.
Nerf Azrael bot from 80% to 33% or make it once a game.
Raise the maximum block chance, get rid of the minimum (for every thing involving luck), lower chances for critical.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/17/2012 18:48:02)

@Trans

What about the EP requirement per/lvl, i don't think i have seen that yet, unless it's in the first page, but keep in mind that nobody might max it rlly, and the EP requirement could be a little bit below standard malf.

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Jugg should have these attributes:

1. Enemies must be different classes.
2. level MUST be ranged by 6.
3. Juggs go first.

EXPLAIN:

1. Enemies in different classes will stop the constant bolts/fire/cannon/bunk, which jugg will find easier to deal with rather than get shot down but multiple attacks.
2. Ranging by 4 or 5, players could have lv34/33 weps which will make it seem almost like a 2v2 battle where your ally is dead and you are against 2 players of yourself, ranged by 6 make it much more balanced.
3. Juggs are allowed to go first BUT they may only use tier 1 and 2 skills.


Questions/feedback?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/17/2012 18:52:40)

EP requirement would be okay I suppose but I don't think it's possible to do it or even worth doing it. Good build can have too much use out of EP, rendering the requirement useless.
Most of the time, you will find having more Energy better than stat requirement which leads to abuse aka Dex CHs, Massacre loopers, etc.

Yeah I do take in account no one will max it hence I added small tiering to add a bit of power so it ends up stronger than Malf - Res wise - but equals about the same. Numbers seem good enough as they are now, for a suggestion of course. :)



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/17/2012 19:53:05)

Cool then, uh one more thing to DEX and TECH. MAKE BOTH BALANCED [:@]

It often hits me when people say plasma rain is weak, because probably it's dex-powered now, and dex differs from tech in progression. Devs really need to change that course of DEX and TECH stat progression, it kind of benefits those tech abusers rather than dex abusers, not saying abusing is good...



ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 1:43:12)

quote:

Juggernaut needs some serious fixing.

1. The level range should get lowered 26-29 because alot of level 30's and 31's seem to have the same weapons as a lvl 34 making it impossible to win unless you get lucky.
2. There is some thing seriously wrong the luck factor in juggernaut.
3. Juggernauts should go first.


I couldn't have agreed more with you.

Juggernaut is near impossible to win you face 2 30's or 31's. Specially with the weapon "rebalancing"



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 2:39:58)

Jugg def needs rebalancing. I'm level 31 and with a lvl 26 partner I can still tear a lvl 34 jugg apart. It def needs fixing.



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:14:10)

Bludgeon is getting heavily abused ,it should be nerfed , with -37 str they can still deal 30 dmg -.- ( i have 63 dex)



ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:22:49)

^You want it to be nerfed just because you lose to it?



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:24:21)

Just because its unbalanced , at level 1 . with 10 str , they deal 30 damage , thats not right



ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:27:55)

Umm...what's your defense?



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:28:43)

20-24+6(armor)+6(Hybird armor)



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:38:37)

32-36 Defence total, 37 Str = 9-11 damage, assuming weapon with 34 damage:
Attack range: 43-45 + 28% from Bludgeon = 55-58
Counting Def: 23-26

This is reasonable, it's locked to Physical which is slight disadvantage as opposed to Berzerker that's not locked to any type and deals more damage. Both can miss as well.
If it's a Rage that does a lot of damage to you with Bludgeon, then Rage ignores passive Armors and if Critical then that's 50% defences ignored.

Remember it's a Tier 2 skill as well. And one observation - Double Strike which is owned by TLMs and Mercs does 23% more damage and isn't locked to any type. 5% damage difference with above stats is 2-3 damage difference - yes I calculated it - so if Bludgeon is to be nerfed then so is Double Strike. 5% damage more, locked to Physical and Tier 2 skill.



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:42:06)

english please?



ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:43:32)

Thank you Trans for the explanation :)



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:44:04)

I justified why Bludgeon doesn't need to be nerfed. Double Strike has 23% damage and is Tier 1 skill whilst Bludgeon has 28% damage, locked to Physical and Tier 2 skill. Nerf to Bludgeon will make skill UP, as DS is as good (isn't locked to Physical).

@ansh
No problem. :)

@below
No problem. xD



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 14:45:43)

oh,,, now i get the tiers thing
You make a valid point and i salute you



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 15:33:38)

Bludgeon is a very useful skill :)


I am using a Strength Tech Mage on my alt and when I rage bludgeon... :) look out :P



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 15:38:23)

Lawl on my level 31 alt TM I'm using a Str-dex build. Level 7 bludgeon and level 8 assimilation. Man it's deadly O_O



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 18:17:28)

Don't know where i got the idea but i think non-vars need some new armors, Harvest Husk was good, but now they should receive antoher one [;)]

Maybe something more intricate in detailing, but not so much that it'll be rated var again ==...
This way those non-vars out there could actually survive in a 50/50 match against a full varium player.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bludgeon is EXTREMELY effective against any decent DEX builds. It kills me often when i'm so close to winning, then BAM, rage bludgeon, and i'm dead. Although i think it should be reallocated to tier 3, as it is very strong against BH and MERC in the lower-lvls.

And one more thing, what is the BM nerf>



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 18:24:29)

Then I want Double Strike to be moved to Tier 2 as well. You know that Tier 3 means more power? So you're giving it a boost for a bit higher Energy cost which is doesn't need. Rage DS and you'll deal almost same damage and either Physical or Energy - depends on your weapon. Tier 3 for TMs is currently Reroute, Malf and Multi - why change it?
I hate to say but making more changes to TMs, skill-tree wise, will destroy the class in the end. That's what happened with CHs after players moaned it was UPed, it ended OP and their unique skill was nerfed to oblivion.

If Bludgeon gets a nerf, I want DS to get as much of it. I won't see Tier 1 skill that is owned by Mercenaries outdoing TM exclusive skill which is in Tier 2, it won't even make sense in any possible way. And how is it effective against decent Dex builds? You mean less effective; more Def they have, the lower damage is. And it isn't as effective at lower Lvls against BHs or Mercs, Plasma Bolt is as it's unmissable and gives you much more damage. I have Lvl 16 BH now, and BL is much more effective with Str build at lower Lvls, I crushed many TMs on my way with Plasma builds due to EMP and using my Gun + Aux wisely to get HP back. Same with Merc a while ago, HA gave me big advantage with Str build until I unlocked Bunker which dominated everyone I met with few exceptions.



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