RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (Full Version)

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plebster -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/15/2012 2:27:45)

Anithesis, many of us have non healing builds you know. I have one which is better than my all my fashion sense builds. It would also mean energy and mental type builds wouldn't be so cheap to use if healing took points in royale. But imagine a 3 vs 3 brawl with heals not taking points, would be fun!




Antithesis -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/15/2012 12:35:14)

My best royale build does not have heals either ^^

In fact, it can kill the Super Intel + Fashion Sense users instantly!

I was speaking in regards to Royale. It should not be affected.




Tally -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/15/2012 13:54:25)

What plebster said.

@Anti: Eh, your point of view. But 3vs3 is still affected by score-ruining healers, and people encouraged by the medic badge requirements (still doesn't make sense).




Antithesis -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/15/2012 17:07:07)

Many royale players require healing in order to stack up against others. Penalizing that would be ridiculous in a free for all situation...




lluther -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/21/2012 23:20:02)

I say all of the buffing skills should be balanced. Who thought it would be a good idea for Fiery Core to increase the effectiveness of fire powers by 120%? Frozen Core has the same problem, a 120% boost. Surge seems like it has already been covered. How much does Unstable increase? Mutation is just a mini version of unstable. Super Intellect seems to raise your mental damage and crit chance more than it says. See? With all of these........ "super buffs", this game is just complete and total chaos. ._. I hope this hasn't been said already.




plebster -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/22/2012 3:45:09)

@above: all your stats are wrong, please, pleaase make sure that you check them before posting.

Firey core is bugged and actually only buffs by 100%, not 120%.
Frozen core only buffs by 45%
Mutate is NOT a mini version of unstable, because mutate buff MORE than unstable. Mutate buffs 70% and unstable buffs 60%. Mutate also has a small heal.
Super intellect DOES buff by 100% and a 50% crit increase. The reason it seems like it does more is because DoT is glitched and gets super buffed, but this is with ALL elements, not just mental.

When was the last time you played herosmash??




Sir Night -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/22/2012 23:53:06)

Actually Fiery Core buffs by 90% like its non-lvl 20 versions, and Frozen Core has been buffed to 60%, although it still says 45%.

But I see no reason that the buffs shouldn't be in the game. The DoT bug just needs to be fixed.




Tally -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/23/2012 1:35:13)

Yeah..the DoT/HoT bug is a problem in pvp.




plebster -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/23/2012 3:09:31)

@sir knight: They actually meant to have buffed it to 120%. The fact that is still only has A 90% buff tells you that it needs a buff, definitely not a debuff. I think that the staff actually think that that it buffs by 120% like it's mEant to. Should be fixed. :/




Remnant the Unknown -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/23/2012 9:30:52)

Eh, I'm getting there.

No legendary powers in my build yet, but I hope it holds until I get a few legendaries.

Here's my list:
- Tazer
- Lightning Strike
- Healing Touch
- Uncanny Focus (may change to Warrior's Spirit)
- Electrocute

What do you guys think?




plebster -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/23/2012 16:54:21)

@above: I would try and do a bit more damage with the build, maybe try and aim to get surge to boost your energy attacks. Also, definitely go for warrior spirit if your uncanny focus is only lvl 1.




Tally -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/23/2012 17:44:08)

Can something please be done about the whole healing hurting the team score in 3vs3? People are just trolling by healing and it's ruining all the matches. It's not fair to the team who has to deal with the healer's score-killing sprees.
Having a PvP arena that gives us a break from depending on heals is nice, don't get me wrong. I just wish there was some alternative that didn't hurt non-healing team members' scores.




Qin -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (9/24/2012 12:03:52)

I don't see why surge is a healing ability, a lightning buffer, can be buffed by pulsar beam (Actually you can do critical heals with the use of pulsar) and a lightning defense. I am not happy about this. It is like a package of 4 skills in 1. A mere ridicule and still hasn't been put to action.




Sir Night -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (10/6/2012 17:08:30)

You know, I think that we've really been trying to push the balance in the wrong direction. When we can only have 5 powers equipped at a time and 1 of those powers needs to be used for energy regeneration we really need to have powers that do as much multitasking as possible.

Using Surge as an example, it is a lot better than some of the other buffs. But instead of complaining that it does too much we should really be pushing to get the lesser buffs up to par.




plebster -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (10/6/2012 17:46:11)

I think we all need a HP buff, maybe to 1500 or something around there.

Sorry croc, but I also agree that surge is too OP. As for the other buffs, Super intellect is fine, Firey core needs to be buffed to 120% like it reads in the description (it actually only buffs by 90% ATM), frozen for needs to be buffed to 90 (but still lastin for 25 sec), and unstable should also be buffed to 90%.




Sir Night -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (10/6/2012 21:36:55)

For the record I don't actually use Surge myself, so if it were nerfed it wouldn't hurt me. I'm a physical and radioactive beast. I was just saying that all of the other powers should be brought up to that level of quality. Why make the powers lame and weak when they can be powerful and actually allow us to develop the character that we want?

EDIT: Oh, and I think that the cooldown on Reens Rampage should really be brought down closer to 20-25 seconds like the other power-ups. Especially considering that it is a legendary power.




plebster -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (10/7/2012 2:57:36)

@above: I agree with that one, reen's should have a 20 cooldown like the other buffs do.




Qin -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (10/7/2012 10:45:37)

Our voices are never heard. No releases for every week or I guess at least in every 2 weeks. Hopefully the big blast event this coming october 12 would pay off.




linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (12/6/2012 19:20:26)

this ish copy righted to the guild the order and was a calaberation of differnt problems and what not....so to some if not most of you this would look like a summery of what all went down that needs fixing, we very well COULD OF went through our entire list of powers and ways to adjust them....but this "small" letter is enough to do it so without anyfurther adue the order of the ppl speaks :3


I don't know if you remember, but a few weeks ago I had asked if you could pass on a message for me about math errors within the combat system. I said I would ask my guild for help in the spelling and editing of it because of my horrid spelling and grammar skills, well here it is. I'll start with the bigger of what many players are concerned about: the math within all skills that use over time effects whether it's for damage or healing is inaccurate. When buffed in generally 98% of the powers that can buff, a common example I use when explaining is Super Intellect (100% buff) and Psychosis (it's a low, easy number for a DoT of 20-30 unbuffed). When you do 100% times 20 and 30 you come up with the same numbers but you add 20 on to the original 20 (I'm starting with the lowest number for the over time damage to make it a bit easier) that would in turn make the total damage 40 damage per tick. If we did the same thing to the highest number on the same skill which is 30, it would become 60. So the total damage for Psychosis' DoT should be 40~60 per tick, but when done in Herosmash you get 90-120 in game, that's much more than it should be, and Psychosis is the lowest DoT for mental. I'm sure you understand the problem when higher DoTs are used. Basically, the current equation for DoTs is base DoT x buff + base DoT. The HoTs have a similar problem, but their equation is base HoT x buff x buff. The most common HoT that is buffed is Fashion Sense. Same Super Intellect buff of 100% and Fashion Sense's HoT is 100-125 per tick. When in game it comes to just over 450 to 550.
The same thing happens to other elements and their elemental buffers, even Yergenism and Reens Rampage (connects to gore)

Now comes something else of concern that very few players know about, owner of rare powers more than often see it rather than others without them. When your level gets farther away from the power's level, it gets weaker. That starts to happen when you are 5 or 6 levels different. At first the effects aren't that strong, the effect only weakens slightly, but as the player's level gets farther away it drastically changes from slightly weakened to not even showing up anymore. This is easily proven with self buffs that can be found in shops that go from level 1 to 20 as well with damage based powers with effects. An example of this is Expelliarmos. For a level 20 player, it only debuffs by about 10%, instead of the 70% that the description says. For the skills that are rare, I suggest a kind of "rare shop" that can trade in current rare powers for upgraded higher levels of them, as well as do the same with shops and monster drops that don't make it past the level 15 cap, so that those powers aren't useless as the player levels up. Some powers that have this problem don't even need adjusting, but just a different level stamp so that the problem doesn't arise.

Some smaller, but still significant issues include:
Chudling rash needs its cooldown increased, it can be looped and abused. Purifying Flames is supposed to absorb all fire damage, but currently does not absorb DoT damage. Selfless Gift can be used as a suicide move that gives its user points for their own death, and is easily abused.
There are also some concerns involving Team Brawl.
Medic medal requirements are to heal 2000 points worth of damage in either Power Defense or Team Brawl. Since heals hurt the team in Team Brawl, it's not fair for the latter to be an option when people go and ruin matches just to get a medal. An issue connected to that is the fact that healers in Team Brawl can ruin the match not only for their team, but for the other team who just wants a good match. Some people go in there only to anger other pvpers. There are a few possibly extreme solutions to this, such as switching the "heals=hurt score" setting to Battle Royale, so heals affect only the healer and not any team. Or to instead make a new arena where there are restrictions, heals hurt, yet there are no teams, since many pvpers enjoy the challenge of those set limits. Another solution could be to just make the heals hurt the individual's end score, instead of the team's in-match score. To add to the Team Brawl issues, the current queue only accepts a full queue of 6 people. It wasn't always that way, it used to be like how Power Defense is now, a max of 6 people but minimum of 4. The minimum of 4 in a queue should be brought back, seeing as how it's more convenient and the low player base of Herosmash has made Team Brawl a dead arena.


i know a few skiped this letter, thats fine but in short thier is a fricken a lot of problems that AE need to do to this game to get it to either make it enjoyable again and or to make them that lil extra cash other then those instent shop items that slowly lose them players, the order looks out for its players and even players who might be agenst it....we truely do care and we can prove it over and over again :3




Sir Night -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (12/6/2012 21:30:53)

^
Agreed

Although as much as we've already complained about this stuff I doubt it's ever gonna be fixed.




Tally -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (12/6/2012 22:07:06)

Hopefully one day it does, smashdome has already lost so many pvpers because of the issues Link posted. It'd be nice if it was as lively and fun as it used to be




plebster -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (12/7/2012 3:04:32)

Link I agree with all the stuff you said but your math error theory isn't quite correct. The thing you said about HoT buffs applies to DoT as well. Lemme show you: take chudling rash, roughly 50 DoT. Use yerg, 40% buff. You get 70. Buff again. You get 98, which is what I normally get. With BOTH HoT and DoT it is: base x buff x buff, not base x buff + base. I explained this stuff to tally a while ago. AbOut the petition, AGREED. If you forgot who I am, I'm vestige.




linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (12/8/2012 19:53:12)

plebster....if you read the entire thing we mention the same problem with DoTs as well as HoTs
quote:

I'll start with the bigger of what many players are concerned about: the math within all skills that use over time effects whether it's for damage or healing is inaccurate. When buffed in generally 98% of the powers that can buff, a common example I use when explaining is Super Intellect (100% buff) and Psychosis (it's a low, easy number for a DoT of 20-30 unbuffed). When you do 100% times 20 and 30 you come up with the same numbers but you add 20 on to the original 20 (I'm starting with the lowest number for the over time damage to make it a bit easier) that would in turn make the total damage 40 damage per tick. If we did the same thing to the highest number on the same skill which is 30, it would become 60. So the total damage for Psychosis' DoT should be 40~60 per tick, but when done in Herosmash you get 90-120 in game, that's much more than it should be, and Psychosis is the lowest DoT for mental.
please read and not skim please :3 *huggles* thaaaank you

and the math used for your example would be almost correct if done on paper...but in the game the math formual that actuly happens (shown in in the letter) would make that DoT of "50" near up to 130+ easy...but you also might be placen the over time skill first then buffing it...in that case the buffing math is correct (as AE math skills gose) but if you buff first then place over time skill then thats when it becomes considerably broken...

and vestige i thank you for agreeing for this petition, i thank all of you so far, im sure everyone remembers how abuset i am about the pvp math in genrual (real time math is the most fun to try to figerout)


this version of the letter was edited by tally, if you want to see another players version ask and i shall post it thire is small differences but both are good




plebster -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (12/9/2012 5:01:24)

Link if you use yergenism, then use a 50 dot, you get about 95-102, not 130 (first hand testing). I also tested loads of other powers with their elemental boosts and I got that with all DoT and HoT moves, if you use the buff first, the increase is: base x buff x buff. Certainly needs to be fixed though, then mental wont be so OP. one exeption is pyrokinesis, which despite it's description, its DoT can be buffed by both fire and mental, HOWEVER, it is buffed correctly, with no math error (weird).

On another nOte, about how powers get weakened when you lvl up and they are a lower level, well I hate that too. I think it lowers the effect of the power by 10% for each lvl the player is higher than the power (dunno if it uses compound interest formula). This is just what I found from a little bit of testing. It is a lot harder than testing other things because I can't de-lvl myself.





linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II (12/11/2012 0:46:54)

vestige, what/where did you test those powers...cuase i went to trader town and tested yerigin with a rad based skill...lol forgot those monsters in tradertown was radtion based so they are stronger agenst it so the math isnt quite correct even if the math was right in the game...so i went to other element monsters and even a player who said would help me...my math as mentioned in the letter is still correct for yergin and skills that use 50 over time .... cuase 40% added on to 50 should be 20 added on to 50 which makes 70... which is no where near the math you showed >_>

and that levelto power ratio...its dosent go 10% per level increase...its like...how do i put it...when you take a pizza...you slice it once (5 levels away from the power's level) then slice that half in half again (7 levels away ) and then cut that peice again in half (8 levels away) and again (10 levels away)...i know thats not very procises...but its the best way for me to look at it...as we get further away it dramicly gets weaker as aposed to being 3-5 levels away from it




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