RE: design Notes (Full Version)

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Sparticus -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 11:11:17)

So I'm seeing somethings I don't like much about the new update. The last fix for JUG battles made them cake walks for players like me with good builds and stats. This update encourages JUG battles over all others by paying them off the most and making them the easiest to win consistently. I've earned more influence JUGing then battling 1v1 over the same time period by nearly twice the amount. The battles were not even close, in fact, I had to wait in a queue for the JUG battle since so many other players are also pounding the poor 25-29 players( most of which used to make out well in 2v2).

Typical JUG match with the typical outcome. This battle took less time then a 1v1!



Lord Nub -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 11:14:42)

^ Yep, pretty much impossible to lose without a disconnect and the influence earned I also agree is faster than the other modes. Once again, 2v2 is the slowest mode for everything.



Joe10112 -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 11:18:40)

Meh not sure if I should buy a sword because I have never used swords...although currently my build doesn't need wristblades...massacre ugh i was thinking of using again. But now I can't if I buy the sword.



ansh0 -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 11:36:56)

Get a P armour, Joe. Then try a stun nade build.

Should be fun :P



Digital X -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 11:40:53)

Well i'm back to jugging and having a great time, and what's even better is TEC having a 99.4% win ratio :) keep it up guys!



Angels Holocaust -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 12:11:52)

It's good to hear that everyone is enjoying juggernaut.



quote:

another priceless quote from Angels Holocaust

just curious, who is gonna take the "unofficial" credit for the new influence system? no one?

I bought the legion physical staff for my TM as it gives me an alternative support build [got other support items that go well with it] but would of preferred
the exile version to be honest, those frost weapons look very lowkey, but I personally like that about them. oh well, Legion better than exile by default


Thank you, it's good to see that someone is appreciating my quotes. The person responsible for creating the new influence system is Rabbleforth. He was the one who suggested these changes.

Please do not double post, use the Edit button instead. --SMGS



Digital X -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 12:24:12)

Are you jugging more now than before Angels? (or if you do Jugg, haven't seen the wins)



skeletondude -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 12:36:20)

Actually juggernaut matches can some time last long and some times last less than a few minutes,It all varies upon the type of player were facing against,Their build,Their level and most of all the luck factor within the match. Just wanted to say that out. [:D]

I think due to the new Jugg faction daily board I see more players doing over 50-100 wins a day which is good to see..Now that alot of competition is there,Thing should be interesting. [;)]





Angels Holocaust -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 12:36:42)

@ Digital X

I don't really play anymore.



goldslayer1 -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 12:40:32)

quote:

just curious, who is gonna take the "unofficial" credit for the new influence system? no one?

not the entire system, but i did suggest to him (in pms, and in public here in the forums) that juggernaut and team modes give 15 influence since those modes take about 3 times as long as 1 vs 1.



RabbleFroth -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 13:00:44)

We expected there to be some growing pains with the new system, and the discussion definitely shows that, which is perfectly normal.

Some of it is just allowing everything to settle into a new comfort zone, and some of it might require a numbers tweak here and there to make sure everything is where it should be.

I am definitely glad that Juggernaut is seeing a lot more activity than before. Hoping some of our other goals with the system are met as well. :)



DeathGuard -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 13:42:49)

@RabbleFroth:
quote:

Rewarding with influence to people who fire war kills (varium feature) is not what they told us about. I'm pretty sure that most of the ones in LB except for some wouldn't have that amount of influence if they didn't had the war kills award influence. I won't point names out but I think they must work on that part.

Many of the ones having those positions don't deserve it and I ask for justice on this issue. I was passing by Valery and saw a member of CAD, many of its members have great influence and few war kills. I think that the players who have earned their influence deserve those places; I will say names like GoldSlayer1, VIX, and some other officers on it. I'm sure other players from other factions have great amount of points without they buying them with varium (war kills) that deserve those places in the leaderboard. In front of my eyes, this leaderboard is nothing but a paying competition.
That's my opinion on the personal influence feature.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 13:57:51)

Anyone experiencing massive lag with this update? Not just slow Juggernaut battle starts -that's to be expected, given the sharp increase in Juggernauts- but lag so bad that you have difficulty logging in, considerably slow battles (in terms of between-turn time) or even disconnects?



Ranloth -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 14:30:07)

Rabble, can you work on Juggernaut ranges again? I know Lvl 33-34 are meant to fight 25-29 but that's quite low, wouldn't making it 27-29 pose a bigger challenge to the players? I tend to get 25 and 27, so they are at big disadvantage whilst 27 and 29 are bigger threat since you should accumulate for Credits by then thus being properly equipped and posing bigger challenge (this relates to Exp curve, levelling is longer so more fights = more Credits).

Juggernaut should be about challenge, not free wins since they are minimally longer, or even shorter (!!), than 1v1 and give higher rewards. It could use a tweak to give a bigger challenge, just 'up' it a bit, same with 30-32 since they get lower range I believe yet they can get top items already (Lvl 34, soon 35 items).
Also wouldn't mind if you could put Wins column back in the game. ;)



Sparticus -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 14:41:18)

quote:

I am definitely glad that Juggernaut is seeing a lot more activity than before. Hoping some of our other goals with the system are met as well. :)


I'm I to gleen from this post that the goal of this update was to ensure the level 25-29 2v2 players get slaughtered in JUG matches they did not choose to join?

Many level 25-29 find 1v1 too challenging and move to 2v2 to level up. This will ultimately make the transition from lvl 25 to lvl 30 much more painful. If I'm not mistaken, this was the level gap where player "rage quit" the most and leave the game. Paying customers are hard to find these days RAB.



goldslayer1 -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 18:39:10)

quote:

I am definitely glad that Juggernaut is seeing a lot more activity than before. Hoping some of our other goals with the system are met as well. :)

yes, when i suggested 15 influence a battle, i made that suggestion on the basis that it took around 3 times as long as 1 vs 1.
however, there were no factions at the time when i came up with the number.

comparing the wins now from jugger to team, jugger seems to be quite faster than team.

perhaps lowering jugger influence to 10 or 11 could be good.


@spart and rabble
i have to agree with spart here.

the lvl range of players that should fight lower lvls against juggernauts should be 27-31

the winning %s for juggernauts are too high. (should be more comparable to team average win % of 70)
also, the credits and and exp and low lvls player recieve should be a HUGE sum if they beat a juggernaut.

and i suggest making Team NPCs and juggernaut NPCs, 5 npcs per hour. for each one.
this should allow juggernauts to lay off the public battle and do NPCs for a couple of battles instead, giving some relief to the lower lvls.

cause right now, its a massacre out there.



Shadronica -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 18:43:39)

Here is my thoughts on the DN's. http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=20405107



My Name is Jake -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 18:44:49)

I think it's the tank builds that are OP in Juggernaut. Especially TLM and CH tank builds.
Even before they lowered the Juggernaut range where you were battling lvl 30s with lvl 34 equipment I still found Juggernaut quite easy most of the time with a tank build and hard without one.



Ranloth -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 18:44:56)

30-31 is too much, it was lowered down since they had access to same equipment as us (Lvl 34 players) which made Juggernaut hard to start with for many people, we'd basically be going to how Juggernaut was before which people hated so yeah.. :3 Just bump it up to 27-29 or 28-29 to make it harder since they will have more chances to win than 25 and 27 like it is now.



goldslayer1 -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 18:49:44)

quote:

30-31 is too much, it was lowered down since they had access to same equipment as us (Lvl 34 players) which made Juggernaut hard to start with for many people, we'd basically be going to how Juggernaut was before which people hated so yeah.. :3 Just bump it up to 27-29 or 28-29 to make it harder since they will have more chances to win than 25 and 27 like it is now.

im pretty sure even with some varium lvl 30s in there. the juggernauts % was higher than 80% on wins.

its outrages that a juggernaut now is capable of getting 100% after hundreds of battles.

if the average win % was brought down to 70% instead of 90%+.
then maybe juggernaut would be on par with team wins in terms of speed and influence.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 18:50:09)

quote:

and i suggest making Team NPCs and juggernaut NPCs, 5 npcs per hour. for each one.
this should allow juggernauts to lay off the public battle and do NPCs for a couple of battles instead, giving some relief to the lower lvls.
love this idea from goldslayer1



goldslayer1 -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 18:52:59)

@pivotal
ty pivotal. its not the last of my ideas [:)]

part of the reason why juggernaut is faster in terms of wins than team, is because of their high % of wins. which is caused by low lvl opponents.

in team mode, if u win all of ur matches, u could possible end up doing 20 wins an hour.
but u dont, because u also loose a good amount. in juggernaut u dont loose that good amount, so the winning speed is higher for juggernaut. thus juggernaut getting faster influence and tokens than team mode.

also
for team mode npcs, there should be an ally link option so u can play with a friend. and then if ur playing alone, then there should be an NPC teamate on ur side, thats competent.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 20:58:48)

The main problem with juggernaut being so imbalanced (and everything else) is enhancements. Most juggernauts have 25+ enhancements minimum so you take those out and juggernaut is a lot more balanced.



goldslayer1 -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 21:07:47)

@mr black ops
im pretty sure those enhancements could be compensated by the other team via higher lvl.
IMO the best course of action is to increase lvls
and make the average pro winrate 70% like it is in team mode.
juggernauts right now has faster wins than team mode, but its mainly because of high % of winrates while in 2 vs 2 u loose a fair amount. (in which in jugger, u dont)



Lord Nub -> RE: design Notes (6/16/2012 21:16:00)

Yeah, jug really needs fixing.....I don't see how you could lose without a disconnect at level 34 with latest gear. Plus, everything everyone else has stated about there not being any players is true, I've seen tons of players rage quitting today throughout my Jugging. "15 jugs in a row!!! Screw this game!!!"

Don't like the idea of NPC's in the modes we currently have that are closest to any skill. NPC's adds fluff win percentages and just bends those of us who aren't "pro" enough to have that 70% average win rate in 2v2.

Would like to see ally link one of these days though but as a new mode would be nice.



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