RE: The Removal of Losses. (Full Version)

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friend18 -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/20/2012 0:12:20)

It's impossible to get 300+ solo wins, solely NPCing. And if you had checked, comicalbiker is a cyber hunter, NOT a bounty hunter. He did do the math himself because if he hadn't, his static would be off. I gave his build a try (he's tried my TM build in the past) and it was okay (the massacre is used to get to rage, rage, static, heal, and then continue fighting). I create my own builds, but had wanted to see how his build worked.

If you still leave the win ratio, removing losses is absolutely pointless! Wins divided by win ratio = total battles fought. Total battles fought - wins = total losses. That doesn't really do anything at all.

The random luck factor is avoidable. No one can complain if they're trying to hit a player with high dex and max shadow arts. That's 45% block chance, almost 50/50. So for me, I try to remove the luck factor, although it'll always be there. It's kind of like gambling. The best gamblers rely on their knowledge of probabilities, so that they have an advantage. It's still up to luck, but they can somewhat control the outcome.



i like bounty hunter -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/20/2012 7:00:54)

Support

Ok Look

You Are Going To Make A New Build
It Might Ruin Your Record But You Will Have A Fun Time Using It
So What Would You Choose
Have Fun And Mess Up Your Record Or Stay With Your Old Boring Un-creative Build
I Would Choose To Have Fun



sylar67 -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/20/2012 12:34:52)

quote:

Strength has been a major problem nowadays due to its wide open use , this stat can be used unlimited times per fight witch is very wrong not even do u get unlimited strikes the skills that improve with str are improving in a very fast way like firebolt for example and bludgeon and massacre well massacre doesnt count much since its a 4th scale attack and has a warm-up , and improving your gun and many other stuff ...
unlike support witch has been ignored these last days support only buffs a few skill 1 only attack , the mercenaries multi and yet the aux has a 3 turns cooldown .
1 of the changes that should happen is lowering the cooldown of auxiliaries to 2 and highering the gun cooldown to 3 .

i said this in the balance discussion .
main reason of the whole openess of this game is that the 2 basic attack stats : support and strength have a big gap between them ,
strength has unlimited use you can benefit from it each and every turn , support buffs a few stats thats why field medic should scale back with support
firebolt should scale 50% slower then it does as it is a 1st tier skill i see it at lvl 1 doing 60+ damage ... maxed about 80-90 while have 124 hp and good defenses thats insane .
guns should have 3 turns cooldown auxes down to 2 since they are the only weapon that improves with support , adding a new weapon to improve with support like i read the other day is a very bad idea , 10k var barely get you ready for fight after all the enhancements blabla bla and not even gets you all you need since armor is for 1000 primary 1000 gun 1000 aux 1000 thats 4k , all weapons now have about 8-10 enhance slots so lets put it 9 as a midle 1450 x 4 = 5800 + 4000 if not more if you want a mutuating weapon or a sword that costs 1200 or 1500 and not to forget a robot that costs 1900 var thats like 70 $ for 1 build :) ... if you wana add to all those a new weapon and enhancements to it .... lol id laugh hard !! ( lets hope i didnt give the devs an idea to make more money o_O :P )


back on topic removing losses will mmm defeat the whole purpose of buying varium , unless they remove it and make the game membership based witch im sure id be the 1st to quit .



King FrostLich -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/20/2012 12:39:25)

quote:

losses will mmm defeat the whole purpose of buying varium , unless they remove it and make the game membership based witch im sure id be the 1st to quit .


Since when did varium affect losses? It only helps you in getting more advantage in the game. There are enhancements, houses, robots, brainwash and creating a faction that doesn't do anything with losses. That "thing" in our record reflects on how we actually battle other players and how faction leaders invite players to their faction.



friend18 -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/20/2012 14:36:23)

goldslayer1 - If that happened, I would switch to a bounty hunter build or a blood mage build. All I would have to do is drop my defense a little (since there are less strength builds around), up my support instead, maybe run a 5 focus build with weapons that focus on primarily strength and heal up using bloodlust. Field Medic is useful now because it allows people to recover from the damage suffered from strength builds. I use static charge to gain energy that I use to heal later on. Without a reliable field medic, most people would just go with strength builds anyways (along with bloodlust).

Also, creating a formula relying on determining gun damage with support and strength is a little complex. If you've noticed, the AE staff has focused on one stat only for every skill. IDK if they can even what you've proposed. In any case, strength builds would still be the way to go, with people relying on their primary weapon instead. XD



ansh0 -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/21/2012 2:33:26)

I have to agree with Angels on this one. Disconnects are ruining the whole game. I had over 30 yesterday and have had 6 in 50 minutes. Why should I suffer these losses when it's not my fault?

Why am I being forced to bear these losses on my character forever?

If losses were removed, I would be able to battle freely without any fear of a loss from a DC.


I completely support this idea.




friend18 -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/21/2012 10:19:45)

Disconnects are usually on your end. I've barely had any disconnects. The best way to prevent them is to just use low quality and up the animation speed.



King FrostLich -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/21/2012 10:58:04)

quote:

The best way to prevent them is to just use low quality and up the animation speed.


How does that apply to people who have bad internet connection?



Angels Holocaust -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/21/2012 11:16:55)

Your also forgetting about Disconnects caused by this game. Remember the one with the bionic battle gear?



nico0las -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/21/2012 11:30:45)

IMO, I've never read a more truthful post. It's absurd that we need to pay for images on a screen to stay competitive.

I'm a bit of a hypocrite here, because I talk about what a waste of money it is, but I do it anyways because I want to stay competitive.
Loses don't bother me so much as my %, and that's because I was really bad back in beta-gamma. I've made 11 000 wins and 1000 losses since the beginning of delta. I wish THAT was reflected instead of my terrible 76% ratio. I am also far too proud to NPC, I've always found it beneath me.

Disconnection and luck are both extremely frustrating. In 11 2v2s today, I have won 3, lost 8. 6 of those were due to blocked static more than once by opponents with lower dexterity. I had two very fun battles with .sixth severe. in 1v1, and they were both disasters because we were both so unlucky. 14 blocks in the second, 9 in the first. Neither of us had over 100 dex. (On a side note, I think static is glitched. It NEVER CONNECTS). If we had a third little bar that indicated how many times we lost due to luck (Ie terrible partners, crits, blocks, deflections, lag/DCs), I'd be satisfied. I'd be saving myself nearly 1000 losses on my %.

Back to the talk about our items. When I go to a restaurant I want to buy food once, eat, and then leave, only to return when I feel like it. However, here we are, having to come back and pay huge sums of money to have images on a screen kill each other. I'm done spending a piece of my paycheck every month to buy varium. I have far more important things to do. Having said this, I love ED. I play every day, and it's always enjoyable. However, I really hate how much you need to SPEND, and if you don't spend, you lose, your % drops, and you end up broke, frustrated, and very, very tired, simply because you can't keep up with the people that live on this game.

All in all, we shouldn't even have our losses shown. It does absolutely NOTHING FOR US. A far more effective method would be the FPS system. Show your kill/death ratio. So every kill you get adds to it. Every death you get adds to it, and at the end you get a number. How many individual kills you get for every individual death. My 2v2% is a disaster, and that's because my partners are crap. I don't see why we should have our entire % degraded by a pathetic 28 that decides to enter with 200 energy, 50 health, and stats that are pathetic at BEST, topped with the default staff.

Be aware, though, we all love this game. If we didn't we wouldn't be here. It's addictive and I'm not sure why, perhaps I enjoy winning, but in any case, I'm not hating on the game. I'm simply pointing out, with a lot of emphasis, the issues that need to be looked at. I'm reaching my wit's end with this. I'm just going to take all they daily championships and call it quits.



charwelly -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/21/2012 21:45:29)

Depressed void I agree to evry single 1 of those ideas they're great



JariTheMighty -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/22/2012 1:05:59)

Some players are talking about replacing the current system with k/d ratio.
How would that be any different to what we have now? Losses in that system would still be a problem.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/22/2012 1:11:40)

since my posts were deleted in here (for an odd reason actually)
ill post again saying that i agree with angels that losses should be removed, as it brings more positive to the game than negative.

and with the right balance adjustment, it can be done. i wont posts the suggested changes that would make this idea work, because then this would get deleted for being "off topic" or "belongs in the cluster fudge of a balance thread" when its actually related to the topic in the sense that it would make this idea work if such system was made.

quote:

goldslayer1 - If that happened, I would switch to a bounty hunter build or a blood mage build. All I would have to do is drop my defense a little (since there are less strength builds around), up my support instead, maybe run a 5 focus build with weapons that focus on primarily strength and heal up using bloodlust. Field Medic is useful now because it allows people to recover from the damage suffered from strength builds. I use static charge to gain energy that I use to heal later on. Without a reliable field medic, most people would just go with strength builds anyways (along with bloodlust).

actually, it would make field medic more reliable, only once tho. and it runs by support giving a better chance for support to become a viable build for all classes.

quote:

Also, creating a formula relying on determining gun damage with support and strength is a little complex. If you've noticed, the AE staff has focused on one stat only for every skill. IDK if they can even what you've proposed. In any case, strength builds would still be the way to go, with people relying on their primary weapon instead. XD

its not really a formula at all.
its just a new scale.
the gun damage would go up every 8 stats thats a comibation of both. so if u have 88 stats combined between support AND str ur gun damage would be 11-14. its not a formula, just a different scale.



ur going to fail -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 2:01:26)

I don't think this would of ever been a problem period if they hadn't shown people's win %'s. It would of been fine if they show losses, but it would have NEVER even come into our minds that win % matter. It would of taken a math nerd to expose it.



ND Mallet -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 9:03:30)

@above Does it really take a math nerd to find a %? It's pretty easy math to do in the first place so I highly doubt we wouldn't have win ratio if the staff never showed it on Leaderboards.



King FrostLich -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 9:10:18)

Just a short thing about my post. I only want the word "losses" removed and the record itself to be based on wins but that does not mean the win ratio(if you're in the daily leaderboards) will get removed. Those on all time battle modes will have it removed on the other hand since it is showing the total amount of wins that player has in a certain battle mode.

Additionally, removing losses also helps in convincing some players to join their faction. Beginners of these games, low level and mid level including high levels, when wanting to join a faction often want to join a good faction unless they want to join a fun faction then that's their own decision. I, myself, as a faction leader only invite people with good records like your wins > losses. If I see a player wanting to join a faction with such a low record, I wouldn't because I would doubt if that player actually is going to do more wins than losing more in battle. If it were removed, then I can just simply invite members based on their builds and wins depending on their level though it would take more math for me to solve on how many wins it takes to reach a certain level.

I'm sure good factions who want good members also want members with good records unless they don't know what they are doing or they just want to have a fun faction.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 9:19:05)

Just to make it nice and simple , lets just , remove losses from public viewing .... only you can see how many losses you got and not others...or even better , you get an option, if* you want to show your losses or not???


what do u guys think about this? :)



King FrostLich -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 9:21:08)

No soul, better to scrap the whole thing instead. Besides, losses use also a bunch of code for everyone. Removing it should improve the performance of the game I think.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 9:27:10)

Well, removing losses, completely, pretty much takes off the reason to win, you see :/
Keeping it is a better idea, so if you got any prob with your record, you can always hide it :)



King FrostLich -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 9:32:13)

It's not also about winning soul, though keeping it bears grudges of past battles I don't want it shown even at secret. Just imagine 1000 battles that you could've won but lost due to disconnection? Pretty sure, they could've been 1000 wins. Like I said hiding it bears grudges for players and coding it for only you to show just adds more code rather than removing it which means complete deletion of the code.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 9:38:04)

Well, then you can go for my previous suggestion, u noe :)


quote:

lets just , remove losses from public viewing .... only you can see how many losses you got and not others..



You see, there are many players, who really likes knowing his record, might be good or bad, but you noe it, and the reason behind it too, so if its only for you to see, then you don't have to bother about explaining others... and ur self??, u noe it :)



King FrostLich -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 9:41:25)

Nope, I even hate my record. Plus, it's not only for me it's also for everyone who have bad records. Go check the other posts and you'll see a few people explaining why they don't like having it.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 9:54:46)

Hmmmmmm, well, m done saying....

but, one thing is a fact....a person only* makes a thread about something... then for sure, his got a prob, with it.... example you hate your record, so u want it to be removed, and their Khannibal(No offense) talking about buffing "Merc" coz he just changed to merc, and now he cares about it..... or idk, stuck with it and wants to make it "the best" class... idk...


see, not saying you wrong, and plus it not that i said i don't support ur suggestion, but, there are other players too, who think differently :)

Sorry, if i was not suppose to say all this, but...then theirs no point in asking other for their thoughts, u noe :)



5rr5 -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 13:34:04)

There's no fun of the game if you remove losses, because you compare your win rate with others! To get higher win rate, you want better builds and that's what you always fight for! Removing losses would make the whole game lose it's meaning.



sha 2nd mage -> RE: The Removal of Losses. (6/23/2012 14:13:37)

Hiding or removing losses ...? Hiding or removing wins or rates ..???

i wonder which way is ED going ?

personally, i dont like the whole idea !



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