1st turn advantage (Full Version)

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kingpowerlord -> 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 11:58:45)

The advantage the person who goes first is too great because:

1.) They get to smoke, Malf you

2.) They get to attack you

3.) Their warmup for ultimate moves start first


all of these things make it very unfair for the person who starts.
how should we tackle this problem?



Lord Nub -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 12:04:19)

Easy, higher support gets first turn, if support is the same, 50/50 chance.

Anything requiring strategy though is a no no in these parts as they like everything to be luck oriented thus the minimums on criticals, blocks, and deflects.



Remorse -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 12:04:19)

This issue has been raised and posible solutions made.


I think one we are likely to see which I have mentioned before and the devs actuly confirmed at one stage as the likely solution is "first turn warm up"

This is basically giving a warm up to certain skills IF you start, however if you're second you can by all means use those skills first.


List of skills IMO that should have a" first turn warm up":

- Fireball
- Plasma Bolt
- Malfunction
- SMokescreen
- Maul

I also think persoanly that if you start the rage you get should be reduced by 50% for the starting turn.
I also think that stunning and critting the first turn of the game should be reduced by 50% chance.



Killer666 -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 12:12:01)

Lord, what are you talking about? This is a Skill based game....



InceptionAE -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 12:40:23)

he's saying that if they made those skills have a 1 turn warmup it'd be more fair. If you can't use malf, fireball, smoke, inti, and the other skills he listed, at first turn. It'd make it more fair. It would mean the only choice you opponent has at first turn is to strike, gun, aux, or bot.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 12:47:21)

@remorse
Agree, also you shouldn't be able to crit on your first turn if you go first.



Ez_Ease -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 13:17:07)

I would have to disagree someone will always have to go first, but to your point moves like smokescreen or malfuntion can be
overcome if equiped for it. Plus you failed to mention moves like intimidate or atom smasher. You see how this is going. Technically
speaking if you want things to be fair all moves should a warm up which I am against. There will be times when some gets the drop
on you, have to deal with it and learn a counter for it. Also the person that goes second is still able to use that same move on their first turn.



Teufel Hunden -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 13:30:41)

the funniest part about that whole thing with the 1 warmup thing is that it wud be a warmup for both sides therefore giving them a hit, smoke, hit, mass

while on the other side it wud be hit, take the smoke, hit, mass against...


now you tell me... what is the difference at all? xD



sylar67 -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 13:39:10)

the 1 warmup for malf / smoke is a bad idea , Exemple :
if you strike , then smoke , then strike , you will have a full rage bar if not after massacre you will and you will have him raged on smoke
if you smoke 1st strike strike you get rage too if you rage now massacre wont be on smoke if you massacre you will rage on nothing :) so the 2nd choice is better



Remorse -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 13:43:03)

^The point is if they start and use those skills its extremely hard to counter them.
if they cant use those skills at the very start, it gives the opponeent a chance to counter them before they do those attacks.


using skills like intim, atom smash , emp etc at the start should be allowed because they dont force uncounterable unstopable power.


you cant just say DEAL with it when you actuly cannot , all most players can do is hope for luck....

How pathetic, this game is bad enough balance wiese, power build unbeatable without luck when they start is the major tipping point.







Thylek Shran -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 14:00:40)

I think that the first turn bonus from support is now just right.
You just have to raise support if your not happy with going second.
Support still is the weakest stat so I think you should not whine
about high support giving first turn.

However I disagree with the idea to give malf and smoke some warm up
because both skills could often be countered with defensive skills and
passive armors.



Remorse -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 14:07:07)

^

Azreal bot destryed sheilds.


passive armour simply gives them a faster rage.


Infact if I mangae to get a sheild off them blood mages rage in as little as 2!! turns!!

Making the turn i wasted casting the sheild POINTLESS

because rage is extremely strong.


They are NOT counterable AT ALL thanks to teriable bots made, and enahncements.

the only way to counter them if they start is to hope for luck!!




Also the support imrpoving is fine I agree.
But powerbuilds like STR BMs CAN start and it makes it EXTERMELY unfair.






rej -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 14:11:42)

quote:

Easy, higher support gets first turn, if support is the same, 50/50 chance.


What he said. The more influence Support has on first strike, the more we can ignore its other massive shortcomings.



tgod -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 14:15:53)

First turn should be if you are lower than 3 levels you should go first.



Thylek Shran -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 14:42:00)

quote:

They are NOT counterable AT ALL thanks to teriable bots made, and enahncements.

So there is no point in giving warm up to malf and smoke because its not the problem.
Fireball definetly should get nerfed. Making it based on support or so.



Ez_Ease -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 14:57:26)

Smoke can be countered in two ways the most obvious is with an assult bot which also takes care of malfunction,
but you can take care of smoke by using intimidate if the person has a high strength output and low aux damage.

I agree super high strength builds are very hard to beat even when I use intimidate, I fought one BM
that was capable of doing between 24 to 30 points of damage even with my 30 plus points in defense
and resistance. It is hard to recover when they go first. All in all I still try to find a way to beat them.



sha 2nd mage -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 14:58:57)

Warm up of malf and smoke will spoil the game,and it will make the game worse.

Support should go first. !


I Vote for support !![:D]



friend18 -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 15:19:39)

Support should have more importance in first turn strike.

In response to complaints about smoke/malf, BRING ALONG RUSTED/ASSAULT BOT! That's it. That's all you need to bring along. Problem solved.



The Game -> RE: 1st turn advantage (7/1/2012 21:33:28)

This belongs in the =ED= Balance Discussion thread.

~Locked



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