RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (Full Version)

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King Helios -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 15:45:37)

I wish Bio Borg got buffed to base 12-16, but oh well. At least Azrael's Borg can't nerf it.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 15:56:17)

^ which in a way contridicts the bot altogether. I mean the Azreal borg is suppose to weaken buffs but by making the bio borg's buff unaffected by it's ability it just added an exception. Azreal borg removes 65% of all buffs except the bio borg buff :P. If anything like you said they should have increased the bot's focus attack instead of this.

Oh well I guess i will have to find ways other ways around those tanks who buff themselves with this bot since I won't be able to avoid attacking them head on forever.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 16:00:25)

Well mother1, Good luck, but here is one thing that I'm not too fond of Pyro Fly. The special should be targeting a main strategic move of the opponent rather than a random skill.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 16:06:24)

Mother1, I usually...

1. Gun
2. Aux
3. Heal/Special Attack
4. Gun

Or...

1. Special Attack
2. Aux/Gun
3. Aux/Gun
4. Special Attack/Heal



If Thorns can be removed by Azrael, that contradicts the whole purpose of bots, to help you in battle. It can't help much at 35%. [:'(]



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 16:14:25)

King helios The only reason I said that was because the Azreal borg's ability is to do just that remove buffs. Also I could say the same thing if the Azreal borg can't remove the thorns buff it also defeat the purpose of the bot which as you stated is to help you in battle.

while nerfing the buff to 35% won't do much it will still do something, unlike the other way around where the Azreal is made useless whenever this buff comes along.

Also whenever I fight a blood mage they usually rage on their fourth turn with me, so by taking away their weapons with the yeti on the turn before I can effectively make them use something else if they used up all their energy.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 16:14:44)

My Juggernaut is happy about this. It will still be a bit tough as jugg to fend of the tech spamming users of infernal android, but now it will be compatible ;)


Also...guys. The Infernal Android special will be DEFLECTABLE. Not BLOCKABLE.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 16:19:13)

^ this is good since if it is blockable it would give the hunter class a greater advantage to block due to shadow arts.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 16:22:55)

RabbleFroth

In the 2nd turn of the new bot I was raging so I had to waste a turn too rage the bot. Making the cool down from 3 to 4 is making the new bot one use per battle in 1vs1 because against 140 health strength blood mages the match only lasts 3 or 4 turns as well with the Hunter classes especially if the Hunter class does the unblockable massacre. Leave at 3 turn cool down because that is plenty sometimes I think it is too long. About making it deflectable two types will make it too deflectable the ones with lower tech than you and the Cyber Hunter it is bad enough that they nearly to 100% block every type of strike but deflect more often than most shots from the weapons and now the bot will be deflectable on top of reduced damage. The physical attack is already blockable why make the special deflectable?

In round 6 without rage I only got 49 damage on the NPC.

What if the attack is too weak when not used at rage, what will you do then?

Try one thing at a time first reduce the damage and if it still warrants a longer cool down then next update make the cool down longer, and if it still warrants being made deflectable then the third update make it deflectable but lowering the damage will be enough, don't do all at once.




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 16:30:22)

Hun,

Bot isn't supposed to be major advantage either. Not everyone have access to it so because you "only" deal 49 damage, it's already high enough since decent Bolt/Fireball do that at maxed Level with average Def/Res if not a bit less (just above 40).
quote:

Making the cool down from 3 to 4 is making the new bot one use per battle in 1vs1 because against 140 health strength blood mages the match only lasts 3 or 4 turns as well with the Hunter classes especially if the Hunter class does the unblockable massacre.

No no no. You read it wrong. It's useable every 4 turns, not once per battle. Only because Str builds kill fast doesn't mean it's once per battle. That's your view on it. Also Hunters are easier to counter than BMs since they don't have unblockable attack for Strength but Massacre. Set up Reflex/Matrix and you're good to counter it. Not mentioning Bio Bot that may help you or Intimidate. Each class owns one of those, or passive Armor (TLMs/Mercs).
quote:

What if the attack is too weak when not used at rage, what will you do then?

It's good enough. Most people always rage Bots and if not, it has same power as other Bots or higher when used later on in the battle. Bots are supposed to be used with higher Focus so you're likely to have good defences and good HP (Focus 4 is best for defence + high HP). So you should survive longer easily. They will be on par, all of them, in terms of damage. Bots are supposed to be advantage for you, not major advantage.
quote:

Try one thing at a time first reduce the damage and if it still warrants a longer cool down then next update make the cool down longer, and if it still warrants being made deflectable then the third update make it deflectable but lowering the damage will be enough, don't do all at once.

Thing is, all at once is perfect. Not only it caps at 150% damage over other Bots, it already does 100% after 4th turn, can be deflected but cannot be blocked unlike other Bots/Gamma (50% damage > no damage) and doesn't favour CHs/BHs when it comes to SA. Won't mention that it'll deal that 150% damage all the time since counter doesn't reset so cooldown is good with deflections.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 16:54:03)

This goes live at Friday's update, correct?



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:03:15)

King helios it actually goes thursday not friday. It said so in the design notes. But then again as they said these results aren't set in stone.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:12:32)

Oh yeah Titan leaves Friday. Thanks.



Why doesn't Yeti's special last 3 turns?



rej -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:15:26)

Excellent, the Gamma Bot is being left completely alone.

Hmm... me thinketh our dear friend mister Pyro Fly needs some sort of nerf- the special is basically a Win Button if used against certain builds.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:20:09)

Rej the pyro fly is getting a buff not a nerf. The only bots getting nerfed are the Azreal borg T_T, the rusted assault bot the infernal android, and the assault bot. But in all honestly since they are making the beam attack for the infernal android deflectable, why not do the same with the Gamma bot's beam since they can do it now?

'I find this funny since I want this robot's ability buffed when I will never own it.'



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:30:56)

Coding break through that makes the game make more sense now as Mother stated why not make the Gamma Bot Special deflectable as well because we have been saying this since Gamma, Blocking a laser beam really doesnt make much sense



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:33:22)

Trans
Did you not look at the round I got 49 damage without rage that is with the old system do the calculations with the new system it will be much less to a point it will not be worth using and what will be done then?

You read my post wrong as per usual and you looked over that I put 1vs1 which majority of times those matches are short anyway, unless they fix blocks, deflections and Critical damage. Those three stats are either broken or there is something seriously wrong with them, more and more players are noticing it.

If it goes to 4 turn it will be a one use bot because with any strength build or tank build especially with the mercs berzeker or the hunters unblockable massacre it will be only 2 to 3 turns so if you use it in your first turn which the special is weak already the 4 turn comes your dead so how many times was the bot used, once, or if you decide you want to rage the bot but the rage never comes you use it just to try to get damage but the damage is not enough because it was weakend. You and many others are not thinking about these things you just see all this damage at rage and think we can’t have that. If you see Plasma Cannon doing 74 Critical damage without rage would you want to nerf that skill as well without taking into consideration the special of the staff helping me get that additional damage.

Well guess what I tried Reflex and Intimidation to counter both the strength blood mage and the strength Hunter
And both Reflex boost and Intimidation did not work I even used combo of Intimidation and Reflex boost and that still did not work. As I mention before those two skills are failed skills for the Blood Mage and with nothing boosting tech using E shield to wait out the effect of malfunction to use Plasma cannon does not work because all what happens is your energy gets stolen then you boost just in for malfunction to wear off then the next round you get malfunctioned again.

Did you not read the Gamma bot will not be changed and what if at rage the new bot and any other bot is still weaker than the Gamma Bot will the damage be increased for the other bots or will the damage of the gamma bot be lowered.

You know the saying “don’t put all the eggs in one basket” that goes for making changes to the poor new bot which you guys abused to destroy all at once.

You guys was so determined to destroy Titan’s greatest creation that it sickened to the point he missed a day.

What could have been done is if tech is above 93: 30-36 than for every increase in tech after that is 25% less damage or even make it 50%. This way anyone wants to abuse tech to abuse the poor bots they will not get the benefits they desire.

For the Baby Yeti the Special should be able to be used more than once in 2vs2 and 2vs1 and only once in 1vs1 unless blocked.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:34:26)

OWA it was also why people were arguing when the infernal android needed to be nerfed make the beam blockable instead of deflectable because gamma's beam was blockable.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:44:45)

quote:

And both Reflex boost and Intimidation did not work I even used combo of Intimidation and Reflex boost and that still did not work.



quote:

that goes for making changes to the poor new bot which you guys abused to destroy all at once.


That's funny, Trans knows my build and he knows that my Reflex - Intimidate combo works pretty well when I use it...

I don't really have that much tech as a 5 Focus BloodMage yet I always do between 40 and on occasion 50 non rage with the Bot, I even got a 84 with rage

This bot is as broken as all your ideas for buffing BloodMage

Ever considered that you are just not that good as a BloodMage and you should consider changing class?



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:45:42)

@Hun calm down man, the staff admitted that the android ended up to be much more powerful then they planned so they are wheeling it back some as for your balance issues with the classes well this isn't exactly the topic for that this is just to inform us and let us give feedback on what might be coming for our robots.

@Mother1 The forumites here are a lot smarter then we are given credit for. We are written off as trolls or trouble makers but we put a lot of thought into twisting the facts to make them fit how we think they should. So if people are going to argue that point well the facts are laid out for them as such but as the same time the Infernal Android was made to mimic the Delta Vault so having it deflectable is ideal for it's planned purpose. Now if they change Gamma Bot's special to deflectable they will be addressing a suggestion from pretty much all of Gamma that was not possible into a little bit ago.



GoldenNeo -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:52:57)

The Assault bot bro's doesnt need nerfing. :I They were good the way there were imo.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:56:32)

And despite the fact Bot will be deflectable, you should enjoy it Hun because it goes great with your BL on Rage. Sure it can get deflected but it's still better than a block. As I said, 50% damage > 0% damage anytime. Bot is broken, anyone can see it and Devs admitted to it so there's no reason to say it's not.
I consider this new Bot with fact it's unblockable but deflectable, to aid Focus BMs big time over Gamma Bot. Not just that it's deflectable but fact that BMs should be able to deal good damage without need of EP + get some of it back as HP to survive, as well as wait for the Bot to buff itself so you can Rage it and get quite a chunk of HP back.

I still see the change as good. Nerf to Azrael and Assault was needed although not too keen on Rusted one but we still have Rabble to speak up on it since info isn't set in stone just yet. 10% could do, so 55% for Rusted or maybe 50%. Reason may not be power of the effect but I'm speaking about initiative of buying Varium. It's 10-15% more so it can do a bit and gives you something to look out for when you get Varium. 2 damage that Assault gets over Rusted may not be enough if players go for the effect.

Gamma Bot could be deflectable, Energy attack that is, but what about Physical? Both are same but different type and it'd mean that Bot is Energy since players would use it as such. It's fine the way it is now I guess, although I'm fine with deflectable, but small boost wouldn't kill either (looking at Infernal and its boost (4 turns ~= damage of Gamma + more afterwards) as well as deflectable but unblockable).



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 17:58:41)

The assault bots nerf is ' ok ' IF and only IF the Assault bot's special nerfs like 10% more than Rusted one... Any little thing is ok just make Assault bot Worth it and not ripped off



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 18:00:36)

A few things....


1. Why is the Android going to start at only 80%? It should be 100% from the first move and go up by 5% from there per round.

2. The assult bot should be better than the rusty. How about 75%/65% for assult bot/rusty assault bot?

3. Regarding rusty assault bots in from battle drops. I still have 20 of them in inventory from drops, and thats after selling six. Why did I get so many while others got none? How can I get more? :p





AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 18:00:43)

That's a nice nerf to the infernal bot. Now, it's about time to nerf CH and BM. Btw, (very much needed) make rage improve faster for defensive builds (makes sense and it's a + to balance)



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 18:02:52)

Most Changes seem good to me... it will give variety to other bots... I had only Assault bot and Gamma bot back in the days, untill Infernal android came out, because other bots were totally useless to my strategies, most of them depends on luck which i don't really count on, on general all these changes look good to me...



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