Massive Strike Nerf (Full Version)

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theholyfighter -> Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 0:08:10)

What happened when fighting a CH:
1. Malfunction( Massive Strike enabled, did a 40 on me. ) 2. Strike( Did a 20 on me. ) 3. Cheap Shot( Massive Strike enabled, did a 50 on me. ) I died.

What happened when fighting a BM:
1. Fireball( Massive Strike anabled, did a 60 on me. ) 2. Gun( Did a 30 on me. ) 3. Blugeon( Critical, did 45 on me. )

Although Massive Strike doesn't happen every time, if it does, game over.

Suggesting that Massive Strike only happens on STRIKES. No skills, no sidearms, no auxes.



Mother1 -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 0:43:00)

Not supported for a few reasons. One even if you did limited it to regular strikes strength builds who hit you with this would still be getting the same damage even if the attack can be blocked. Also the moves you mention that crit you can be blocked and lastly as you already stated crits with the exception of three moves have the max chance of 20% to occur, and even so you need high support to get that chance which most builds don't even bother to power up support to the chances are even less.

It just sounds like you ran into bad luck with these fights.



theholyfighter -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 1:03:49)

The skill can stay, but maybe there could be a change to the bonus damage, or how it's calculated.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 1:10:02)

I just think it should ONLY be for strike since classes with skills like CS or BB have an advantage.



theholyfighter -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 1:15:56)

^You got it



ReinXI -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 2:25:06)

Not supported ... Criticals can ruin your day any time no matter how much extra damage they get.. you want to nerf
An ability that
1 only activates on a critical which can be very few and far between
2 just because someone crit you with fireball ( oh wait.. str builds most OP attack hit your for alot more blame the build not the crit )
3 same for the others GUN ( str build = obviously hit high deadly aim.. remember ) and bludgeon (already does like 40% maxed out extra damage )
so getting a crit with that..
4 you shouldn't suggest a nerf to the ability just because you got owned by them..
5 think about the player who got the crit? how often does he get those? even with plasma and BB ( and cheapshot I guess.. ) even I have
runs where I go 3-4 rounds owning people with crits... than i go 5-6 not getting one and losing at least half those matches ( heck I have lost
when I did get a critical )
end of the list ~ no not supported and this skill is fine not the skills fault you ran into bad luck..



Mother1 -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 2:37:41)

^ Not to mention bunker blaster, plasma cannon, and cheat shot while they have a much higher chance for crits, the chance of getting a crit is 1/4 (which is while is the highest chance of getting a crit is still only 25% which is low) The odds of a crit are always stack against you even with the highest chance possible of getting it. it is all based on pure chance with these moves.



RageSoul -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 2:39:34)

@Rein
I don't see the point why not nerf it , considering the fact that it affects EVERY ATTACK ( that includes Massacre ).



Mr. Black OP -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 2:45:31)

@mother
Its +25% to crit so if you have a 10% you have 35% to crit.
So you would most likely go first and have a 35% chance of taking half (possibly more) your opponents health away before he can even prepare. How balanced. [8|]



ReinXI -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 2:48:22)

the point is if it only affected strike it would NEVER be used... I never use strike in my builds unless the battle drags on so long all my ranged are on cooldown so why on earth
would I even bother with the weapon if it "didn't" affect my other attacks?

all this sounds like to me is someone who went boohoo cause they lost a fight due to a crit... its not my fault they got crit.. its not theres.. its just lady luck decided to slap them
across the face with a hammer.. it happens TO EVERYONE



Mr. Black OP -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 3:04:13)

quote:

the point is if it only affected strike it would NEVER be used... I never use strike in my builds unless the battle drags on so long all my ranged are on cooldown so why on earth
would I even bother with the weapon if it "didn't" affect my other attacks?

Because it fits your build better than other weapons. That's like saying "why would I use a weapon if it didn't have a special?"



ReinXI -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 3:19:09)

well from the fact that this "nerf" would limit the ability to strike.. which the ONLY builds that I can think of that even use it.. are strength builds and CH's so you know what? that would just make them even more OP because less people can get deadlier crits ( or maybe you would like that being a ch and all? maybe you lost cause you got "crit" killed ) honestly get real... the nerf is a
stupid idea :/



RageSoul -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 3:26:24)

quote:

well from the fact that this "nerf" would limit the ability to strike.. which the ONLY builds that I can think of that even use it.. are strength builds and CH's so you know what? that would just make them even more OP because less people can get deadlier crits ( or maybe you would like that being a ch and all? maybe you lost cause you got "crit" killed ) honestly get real... the nerf is a
stupid idea :/

Kinda funny how you said that removing/nerfing the effect makes them even more OPed yet they have PA and EMP to cover it up . Besides , have you noticed that it also affects other classes using the weapon as well?



ReinXI -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 3:32:52)

.... did you notice I was talking about classes that use the "strike button" last time I checked 5 focus bms used/ plasma/gun/bot/zooka/ rinse repeat for there battles.. ( NO STRIKE )
bounty hunters ( they might if there doing smoke/ strike to deal damage ) mercenary ( bunker buster artillery surgical zooka gun... no strike unless using a poor win chance str build )
tact merc ( might use it ) but they have toxic/ bot/ gun/ zooka/ arty/ its a matter of "the classes that USE" the strike button so making it on strike would make the weapon less useful
than the lower damage/ less % of happening frost destroyer... and more people would move to bionic and oh wait.. get a bigger boost to strength ( plus heres something else.. whats the most
popular str bm weapon? oh right.. the bionic battle gear ) so my conclusion is

NERF NOT NEEDED! ....



Mr. Black OP -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 3:34:22)

^
Please don't call me biased, I don't even have to look at your character page to tell that you have it.
It's ability favors certain classes more than others. How is that balanced?
If it is only useable for strikes (which all classes have and similar to Azrael's Curse) wouldn't that make some sense?

Also those classes you mentioned can choose to use strike while a TLM or TM cannot choose to use BB/CS/PC.



theholyfighter -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 3:45:33)

@Reinxi
This is my suggestion not your discussion.

@Topic
Massive Strike should stay but needs a nerf.



ReinXI -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 3:47:01)

Of course I have it and I have it enhanced what does that matter? the fact is that criticals only happen every now and then I can use Plasma a max of 2 times a fight ( unless I need to heal/ get emped ) and even two times a fight I can go 5 fights without a single crit its a matter of luck if you get a crit or not even spamming supp ( which who "really" does that? ) you still only have a
CHANCE to get a critical hit. seriously tactical mercs have enough skills to not need to use the strike button.. if they use it good for them your point is
"that it favors certain classes" well changing it to strike would that not in fact make it favor fewer classes due to the fact only certain classes have "working" strike spam builds
( once again bm and CH/ BH ) so I personally see your argument as void. just because someone gets owned by a crit doesn't mean its OP that might be the only crit that guy gets for 5-6 fights
so why should the 1 time he gets a good damage output be nerfed because the person he crit whined that it was OP cause he didn't win?

its like taking away someones money after winning the lotto cause his neighbor whined it wasn't fair...

Sorry I dont mean to make it a discussion I'm just pointing out why the nerf is a bad idea :/



theholyfighter -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 3:49:45)

^ Yea and all those you said are Your predictions and Your battle style.



ReinXI -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 3:55:44)

^ all you can do is predict you dont know when someones going to get a crit..
and yeah maybe someone out there enjoys spamming strike I for one have yet to
meet a single person who does.



Mother1 -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 5:10:02)

Mr black op let me get this straight? You think this weapon ability needs to limited to strikes because there are 3 moves out there that have a higher chance for crits then others? Also Mr. Black op I looked up the info you were talking about, and I also got the info you on crits from the new did you know slots they show and it said that your chances for a crit are as low as 1 percent to as high as 20% (25% max if you are using the azreal bane or azreal curse with normal strikes But we can't combine those here can we so the max with this weapon is 20% at best and for this as I said you need a good deal of support which most builds lack due to them being tech tanks, strength builds, etc. The only builds that could max on this are high focus builds and support build which we see few of since most people want a winning build and the ones that win most are strength and tanks more then others.

Now let's look up the special moves that have higher chances for crits then others

Bunker blaster ignores 20% of physical defense with a 25% chance of crit. This doesn't stack with support so the best it can get is 25%
Plasma cannon Same as bunker blaster only it ignore resist instead of physical defense and it still has the same crit chance that doesn't stack with support.
Cheap shot Again same as the first two with it's crit chances however depending on how you power this one up it can ignore more or less the 20% of either Physical or resist depending on the primary.

Now with all these moves the chances for crit are all FIXES at 25% no matter what and the only thing that can match this crit chance is striking an opponent with the Azreal bane or curse when they have enough support to get the 20% chance (Since the regular strike with this weapon adds a 5% bonus to whatever chance you have to crit).

So no matter what you do it is all up to chance luck whatever you call it even with these three attacks that have higher chances for crits but are still based on luck.

Crits can come at any time in the game just like blocks, and deflections since they are all based on chance. I am a tech mage a class that doesn't have one of three moves that you mentioned however, even though I am this class I am still saying no to the nerf because it still seems dumb to nerf someone just because some classes have moves for a higher crit chance then others when even with these moves the crit isn't granteed.

These moves can easily do normal damage and cheap shot has the possibility of being blocked.

However reinxi with strength blood mages I rarely ever see them use there aux in battle unless they need a kill move for rage and don't want to take the chance of being blocked. Also most bloodmages I have fought strike at least once before the go into rage.

But even with that I still don't support trying to turn this weapon into an almost exact copy of the Azreal bane/Curse



ReinXI -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 5:18:19)

@ mother1, Couldnt have worded it better if I tried :D well done

and the way I play bm wise is plasma, side, bot, plasma ( or aux if emped/ heal if in dire need ) then go back to side , this is where things change
If I used plasma, side, bot, plasma, side, THEN I use aux more than likely just because it can't be blocked and imo I would rather risk lower damage
than a block... so yeah .. if emped I still dont strike normally I have enough energy left to do a bludge or intimidate so I do one of those in its place.




Rui. -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 6:00:14)

you can never win this argument cause all varium players will support this even if they know massive strike is Op. Give non varium a 32 damage mutating weapon with massive strike and see how everyone will complain that its op and needs a nerf. Your just wasting time. No one really cares about balance and if they ever did you would never see such specials. I for one dont care. Get rid of emp is all i want.



Mother1 -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 8:08:23)

Rui I am not supporting this for the fact that crits are all based on luck no matter how you put it. If you have read my most recent post I even stated it with hard evidence that we are know is true. OP even admitted in his first post that crits don't always happen and no offense to you op but it truly just sound like you ran into bad luck and because of this you want this weapon nerfed so it is just like the Azreal bane/Curse.



Rui. -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 8:20:53)

you are disagreeing with me ? I didnt want any nerf no anything ever. I am more of a buff other0items kinda guy. All i suggested is to give non varium the opportunity to get their hands on the infernal items just make the damage on the primary weaker than the varium version. I liked when they released celtic items along with the varium counterparts with the special. Mother read what i sa
id again.



Mother1 -> RE: Massive Strike Nerf (8/21/2012 8:26:06)

Sorry it sounded like you where complaining about the weapon being op'ed when the weapon itself powers up something that is left up to chance to get. However as for giving non variums the chance to get their hands on some of these kinds of items I say ok why not? I am all for fairness in this area. Lord knows I wanted one of the frost items when I was a non varium player (Since I was one until I grew to level 32) If you made this into a suggestion I would support it 100% since it would bring more balance to the game

But at the same time even though they are rare the admins did make plenty of weapons for the non variums during the war that are just like you suggest with the exception of the weapon not being mutating.



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