RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (Full Version)

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kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 9:27:00)

Well if they lose plasma armor, maybe they should be given energy shield?
Also, Tech Mages need to have their Plasma Bolt receive a reduction to make it at the same level with Fireball because it's not fair to have 2 "likewise" moves that one is significantly powerful over an other. On the top of that, TM tech abuse builds(high hp/ep) is by far one of the builds that scores close to 100% domination of the game.



Smackie El Frog -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 9:35:04)

Yeah TM tech abuse is starting to be everywhere in battles. Pretty much impossible for a Merc to counter a TM with high tech with over 100+ energy. Even if I were to use my atom smash it wouldn't even slow them down a bit. Couple that with most of them using Technician their plasma bolt becomes a nuke. And if you aren't dead yet they will do 40-50 damage with their ultimate.

This is really becoming an issue for mercs who don't have any shields beyond +6 Def and +5 Res. What a joke hybrid is when you get smoked or malfunctioned. Merc's need a shield skill because there is no way to counter these builds especially now that assaults bots debuff got nerfed.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 9:42:59)

@Smackie: The only thing I can do is basically use Energy Shield to weaken Super Charge and Bolt by a small %, but the abuser can use those 3 turns of Energy Shield to build up Rage. Also, the usual strategy involves healing in the 1st few rounds as an "occupier" move. There is really no efficient way of draining 100+ EP without Atom Smash Max'd or EMP Max'd scattered over 4 rounds or more.



Bunshichi -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 9:48:06)

quote:

plasma bolt becomes a nuke


Its a real pain in juggs to face mages with high tech and having 100 energy spamming bolts.



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 9:49:41)

Very good point, Smackie.

Level cap has reached 35 and enhancements are enough for a full varium to afford a high energy pool. After experimenting with classes I can tell myself that 80-100 energy is easy to afford, and it is absolutely recommended for classes without Reroute.

Therefore I'd suggest adjusting Atom Smasher to take away more energy, because the skill was implementing when energy pools were around 40-60.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 9:55:17)

@Drianx: aside from that large energy pool, the secret behind tech abuse builds is by far not requiring Strength and/or Support and reroute backs them up from running out. If you don't have reroute, well it's slightly more possible to defeat it when you have 2 EMPs/Atom Smash combined, but most EMPs/Atom Smash are usually in 20s-30s, while you need to drain 40s per move in order to make the build fully screwed.



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 10:02:20)

Not tech abuse is the issue, but the combination 100 energy + reroute, which leads to atom smasher being completely ineffective.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 10:05:30)

^: Well, the EP combination of 100 + EP can ensure they will never run out as long as they receive enough for a Rage Bolt or Super Charge.



Smackie El Frog -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 10:11:09)

Yep and then it's just wait for the sweet embrace of death as a merc! But the fact Merc's don't have proper shielding. Even with a passive in place its not enough. I mean come on +6 Def/+5 Res at level 35 is a joke! Look at armors nowadays, they have almost the same coverage. When you can have the same amount of protection as a rank 10 skill with requirements for an armor with no requirements beyond levels somethings wrong. If that's not imbalance I don't know what is.

Seriously the ONLY protection skill a Merc has is basically comparable to the previous 3 armors released in the game to EVERYONE at high levels. So basically what I am seeing is they gave every class hybrid armor just with no dex requirement? Ha nice one guys...



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 10:14:02)

@Smackie El Frog: not just a sweet embrace of death for Mercs, but also Blood Mages despite the fact of Energy Shield and other classes...



kosmo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/4/2012 11:03:54)

A class mustn t have the same effectivness against all other classes, and just like bm is better on ch and bh is better on bm,etc....mages have their weackness: energy drain is the biggest, and it s impossible tht all classes can drain enegy so well.Anyway merc is up cuz of adrenaline not working with blood rust.Bm ar op 4 their too fast rage still cause of blood lust.If u compare the rage of a bm and the rage all classes exept bh with same dmg, with the same support, in same time u may understand



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/5/2012 6:09:18)

Hmmm.


I was testing my alt, a low level (now level 19) merc with high technology/tank/bunker build.


What i found?


Bunker Buster at lower levels is absolutely amazing. Usually 2 hit kills with decent tech and you can beat players 5 levels above you. :O



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/5/2012 22:53:11)

^: It is particularly amazing, but once it hits lvl 30+, The luster starts to drop.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/6/2012 9:09:51)

Another suggestion I'd have is to make Ultimate moves non critable...

They are allready a pretty reliable High Damage skill and making it Critable is
kinda an overkill



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/6/2012 18:54:55)

idk. I was thinking about going merc on my main just to try an extreme tech/bunker build. :)


Like:


4-1-max
1-x-8
1-x-1
1-5-5


not sure how it will do. Is it up, op?



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/6/2012 18:56:55)

^: Not really because once you run out of EP, ur screwed unless you bring boosters.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/6/2012 19:02:28)

Exactly what I was thinking, thus why I have a stakeout.


I will likely have a 5 focus build with it also, these would be the stats...


45+9
45+43
48+54
45+11


Which means that when I get EMP'd (highly likely) then I still have a chance by using my robot on rage.


So.

95 HP
(60ish EP)



Since a level 8 BB costs 29 EP, so I will likely use it twice, making my EP for BB become 58 EP needed. With my remaining EP, I will likely use ATOM/Heal.



Suggestions please?



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/6/2012 19:33:20)

^I just feel that 95hp isn't enough to outlast BM amd BH. For mercs, I was thinking of a build more skewed towards high hp and field medic. Bunker must crit for it to work best.



Lord Machaar -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/6/2012 21:46:00)

One Word



Support



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/7/2012 0:50:10)

@Lord
Please elaborate

Ontopic: For the first time ever, I'm on the class being complained about, but let's address a few issues at the same time here, because nerfing the working build for TM and leaving BH and BM being able to abuse the exact same thing as always is unfair and ridiculous

Bounty Hunter Problem: Insane strength plus lowing their opponents defense making them block less and be blocked more, along with Massacre healing nearly 20 hp. Blood Lust is also a large problem, since they can just keep hitting you, and earning health

Blood Mage: Incredibly insane amounts of strength, I think we all know the problem here, so no need to explain

Tech Mage: Reroute + 100+ energy = Destruction. Although, playing from this perspective, I am fairly easy to beat if you are a Merc, Tac Merc, Cyber Hunter or Bounty Hunter. If you use 2 emp's, my build is destroyed. Even 1 emp or atom smash can destroy everything.

Mercenary: Underpowered, there is one useless special, and since I have nothing to complain about, I will tell you a small useless story.
As a Tech abuse Tech Mage, I fought a level 35, non-varium Merc. I went in thinking "I got this". I left saying "How the hell did I lose?!". He used a 5 focus build, he was fully enhanced and no varium, all his weapons were cleverly picked to make it so he had only 4 stats in strength, 0 in support, then a ton in dex and tech. He was very skilled,and if I could remember his name, I would say it. But I digress...

Tac Merc: I don't see why so many people think it is useless, I have seen people destroy with very high win ratio's.

Cyber Hunter: Finally balanced.

There are my thoughts... and stories... I know I didn't say what could fix it, but I was trying to provide my opinion on the matters

Haven fun!



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/7/2012 2:05:29)

Blaze Bounty hunters while they have that strength can be easily countered especially most masscare builds. Most use exact or close to exact energy so one energy drain move takes care of that. Also with mages while most don't want to waste a turn defense matrix works well for me and I am a mage as well.

Also I said this before and I will say it again plasma bolt needs a nerf. it does more then supercharge with the right amount of tech and it with it so powerful it is nuking or 2 turning the lower levels especially mercs since they don't have anyway of defending against malf with the best hope being a rusted or regular assault bot, and thanks to the nerf they got it is even worse for this class.

As for tech merc they either don't know how to use the class, don't like using the class, or want Tech merc to get back their smoke since it is the only class without a debuff.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/7/2012 2:12:02)

Got a quick question for you guys.

How do you think NON-VAR CHs are surviving? Answer: Horribly. I'm debating whether or not I should switch to TM. Or, I should just make a Level 1 SC build (is there a minimum energy you must gain back per hit?), and invest loads of points into other stuff. Either way, CH is relatively unplayable as a Non-Var now. I just don't have enough Skill Points to distribute. I barely made it when it was pre-nerf, but now, I can't afford the extra points.

Either way, it's pretty bad on the Non-Var community now :/

TM looks like a tasty option to play as...



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/7/2012 2:16:01)

Joe10112 I would say invest in other skills other then Static. Unless of course you have need a small amount of energy in which Static at a decent level can give that back. Also Rabble unless he said something different since then said that CH are doing well in 1 vs 1 and very well in 2 vs 2.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/7/2012 7:40:34)

To the people wishing that Caster TECH TMs should be nerfed :
My answer? No! Have you guys ever tried TM again but in a new character? Look at the difference between pre-FM nerf lvls. 1 TM to PB-buff lvl. 1 - 5 TM . Also , we were already nerfed ( pretty sure it's a change ) : we use to have Plasma Rain improved by TECH , so that's :

Plasma Bolt + Plasma Rain + Gun/Aux/Heal/Others , rinse and repeat .

That means we can do 60 - 80+ Damage in the first 2 turns! Imagine that! Plus , even if Plasma Bolt deals more damage than Super Charge , don't expect that to help you all the times since SC gives +30% Instant Blood Lust , ignores 20% Resistance ( can be stacked with Criticals , hence that leaves the opponent 40% RES left , so SC + Crit = WOW! ) . Now we have to wait for Round 4 to use another TECH skill , which BTW is SC , then either Heal or Attack on the next turn . That gives you a free turn to plan / do something stragetic . And did i even mention to you that you can't Block , Crit and deal more damage per turn more often?

And furthermore , it was meant to be Caster before , i mean look at its skills : PB , PR , Technician , Malfunction . Yep , Malf for great synergy + paired up with a strong PB/PR , and "BAM!" goes at your opponent .

Now for my final statement , the buff was to make up to the FM nerf ( plus the shield nerf ) for TMs ,and isn't that the same for Mercs at low levels? Merc isn't OPed , sure , but their power somewhat is great at low levels ( high levels are actually their "dead end" ).




DilZZZ -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/7/2012 10:22:19)

Uhm...... Instead of nerfing them, why don't they buffing them?



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