RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (Full Version)

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King Helios -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 10:32:23)

Case in point: We need a smaller level range.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 11:27:44)

1) we need smaller lvl range
2) tutorial for 2v2 is needed for low lvls
3)2v2 npc ? questionable cause it might ruin the fun of 2v2.
4)varium non var balance in 2v2 idk how to make it balance but right now 2 non var without enh cant kill 2 full varium with full enh in 2v2 unless one of the varium players decide to troll.
5) dcing problem might be able to be solved if the person who loses partner gets and extra turn maybe? idk but least it is better than nothing.



King Helios -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 11:33:41)

Reposting my earlier suggestion:

quote:

I'd like to suggest a new pairing system for 2v2.

Rules of 2v2 (under my system):


Two Variums cannot be on the same team

There must be an equal amount of Variums on each side

The team's levels must be within four

What do you think? Ask questions.



Mother1 -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 11:39:23)

@ king helios

Making the range smaller will only make battle take longer to start especially at the higher levels. Plus even if this is done there is no grantee the matches will be even. You would still have to worry about the following

1 People stats not matching up (meaning two non variums going up against 2 fully powered varium or non varium players)
2 Level differences even if smaller the chance for there to be a gap. The only way they can remove this is if you fight your own level only

Besides they give more credits for the team that is at the disadvantage to compensate for this. Plus just because you get lower level partners doesn't mean you will lose. I have been on the disadvantage and still came out on top and visa versa. It is all about builds and planning. Anything can turn the tide of this duel.



luop70 -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 11:41:05)

2v2 can be super balanced and not. There will be times where I play a full level 34 all varium, and its really balanced. But then the next battle is a 28 and a 29 Vs a 27 and me (34). There its a juggernaut with a partner. I could juggernaut the other players, and they had no chance. I was the only varium player in the entire battle and it only lasted two turns because the 27 used malf and I use cheap shot which kill the 29 and then the 27 stunned the 28 and I used malf and the 27 used strike. Both dead within 1 minute. I didn't record it but I will record the next one so that there is some proof supporting the story.



King Helios -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 14:10:46)

@mother1:

"Two Variums cannot be on the same team"



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 14:46:28)

Each and every game isn't balanced, sometimes it's in your favor sometimes it's not. Personally, overall I think it balances itself out in the end.



Mother1 -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 15:00:16)

Even so you have to look at everything else that makes 2 vs 2 unbalanced.

Now lets say the server has 1000 people on it. This may sound like a lot of people but for dueling reasons it isn't. Here are some of the reasons why.

1 not everyone is dueling. Many or just in many of the popular hang out spot such as 0z word 7 naomi world 0 slayer world 7 etc. This cuts into your player poll
2 people doing 1 vs 1. The mass majority or higher level players and some lower levels do this also cutting into the player pool.
3 Players that aren't within you level range. For many high level players this is a game breaker since the vast majority of players are out of your dueling range.
4 Players doing Juggernaut mode. This also cuts into your playing pool.
5 Players already dueling in two versus two.

Now if you add all of these into the equation you will have a lot less people to duel with. Plus with all of the things you mentioned to make this more balanced will only cut into the playing pool even more King.

If you add 2 varium players not being on the same side this would remove other varium players with will increase the wait in time. Also if you lower the range gap it will only serve to make it take longer to find 2 vs 2 duels.

Many times especially if you are a high level player it can take you a while to get a 2 vs 2 duel and even then half of the time you aren't in a balanced level group. I remember you claiming it would only take a few seconds to make it more fair but what I don't think this would be accurate and this is on a packed server. What about on one that has 600 or less people? It will only make it harder to find 2 vs 2 battles, and it is because of this and the other problems that come with depending on a partner that the most high level players do 1 vs 1 or Juggernaut since they don't have to depend on a partner.

It was also said by the ED staff that they made it way so you could find quick battles. While many want a fair battle, a lot don't want to wait forever to get one. If the wait is increased because of this then less people will pay this mode and go to other battle modes for duels. Plus they already compensate by awarding more credits if you beat this higher level opponent.

Besides if you look at the LB I know you noticed that 10- mid 20's are the one who are on the LB not the higher level players since they have to deal with longer duels and not being able to get them fast enough while 1 vs 1 and juggernaut are the 30+ levels LB.

So all in all while I am for making this mode more balanced I can't support a change if it is going to make me and many other high level players wait longer to find a duel. The wait time sometimes is crazy, and your idea will only serve to make this wait even worse.



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 15:41:05)

quote:

Each and every game isn't balanced, sometimes it's in your favor sometimes it's not. Personally, overall I think it balances itself out in the end.


After re-reading my reply, let me explain a little more. For example, after fighting 100 battles in a row, overall it would balance out. :)





robo90925 -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 18:39:30)

I agree with Mutt.

Over a period of time. All our wins and loses will balance out. It isn't like that any of use gets consistance amount of good partners. Out of 100 battles you might get 40 bad partners and 60 good. In that larger amount like 1000 the gap will shrink.

Like me, I was playing 2v2 for faction. I got a really, REALLY bad losing streak.... I rage at computer. I claim down. get playing again. Still got 152 wins. Still got 70%.

Plus, with the logic behind your thinking, 1v1 can be classifid as unbalanced. A full varium vs a non var. In your concept, this is also "unbalanced".



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/17/2012 23:27:10)

gotta agree with mother1. it is hard to beat 2 full variums in 2v2 as a non varium which does not have any enh. well back in beta when enh was not even there vsing 2 varium as a non varium is not a problem at all all u need was some crits maybe a block or 2 and boosters and u can/might win. the problem here is not the 2 variums but the introduction of enhancements. the game was fine without enhancements. in order to make 2v2 balance and still have a reasonable wait time something needs to be done with enhancements.

basically most new players spend their credits on useless stuff like bikes/silver skull card/low lvl weps which become useless at high lvls. players do not know how to manage their credits will become broke and a burden in 2v2. because these broke players cant player 1v1(they will get smashed in 1v1) they do 2v2. so basically the devs need to make tons of tutorials so that this wont be a common problem.

1) a tutorial on how to save credits
2) suggested weps for each class(say u click on vent bot and it tells ya what is the suggested wep for yer class say mjolnir for tlms and mercs)
3) a tutorial on how to do npc
4) a tutorial on how to do mission
5) a tutorial on how to do 1v1
6) a tutorial on how to make a build
7) a tutorial on how to do 2v2
8) suggested build for each class(say str build for bh/bm)
9) a tutorial on enhancements

i know these stuff might be useless/worthless if ya know the game but think about it when u started this game/ a new game u would 100% be clueless and do not know what to do most AE games have tutorials to help new players but ed does not. and to make things worse it is a PVP game not a PVNPC game.

@robo

a non var str bh without enh can be a full varium with some luck that is because there is only 1 full varium in the battle. same goes with juggernaut my lvl 29 bh can easily beat a full var jug with a decent partner. and my bh does not even have any enh. say a non var has a 40% chance of beating a full varium in 1v1 in 2v2 the % would be 16% y because 40/100 x 40/100= 16/100 that is if his partner is also a non varium if his partner is a varium it is a different thing.



King Helios -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/18/2012 8:30:24)

I noticed something.

Strength Bounties are HORRIBLE in 2v2.

This really does help balance.



Darkwing -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/18/2012 8:42:36)

about 2vs2, it's full of 5 focus builds? like if I don't get at least 1 focus(5) build in a match, there is something wrong....



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/18/2012 12:41:05)

@king helios

lolz so true but on the other hand as wat darkwing said 2v2 is flooded with tank build.

@darkwing

this is because 5 focus builds is a build most jugs use in 2v2 anything can happen so the safest build is tank/5 focus build.



King Helios -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/18/2012 14:00:30)

I think that because of their defense, they go for the other person, and the 5 focus build has op android at that point.



Warmaker04 -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/20/2012 13:23:34)

Guys.
unbalance Because of responsive contacts to lvl ranges and noobs/good.

We need :
1 lvl or 2 lvls range :
There cannot be 2 varium players on each team.
Juggernaught = 35 lvl vs only 29 and 30 since Juggs are beating the crap of 26-27-28. and they are too easy for varium Juggernaughters.
Strategy = in 2vs2 there must be some tactic / strategy or plan they must do to kill an enemy. You cant enter in fight and do what you want. Otherwise u will lose the fight complettely. You must think, and do most smartest moves you can do.

Questions which i can answer if you ask in my post
A : there is still noob in 1 lvl - 2 lvls range and it still will be unbalanced.
B : Inventary score. You must have atleast 3 weapons which are in range 34-35 lvls. Armor/bot idk. That too i think

A : I was hacked.. how to back my weapons? i cant enter 2vs2 fight.
B : Eh, Thats hard part. U must do 1vs1 or NPCs because when you enter in battle without stuff you ruin other players game.
its better to lose the fight in 1vs1 than 2vs2 cause in 1vs1 you dont ruin people game, but in 2vs2 u do.

A : Why without stuff players must not go in 2vs2 battles and how they ruin the fight?
B : Cause Without stuff no pistol,no gun , no aux, You making ur partner 95% of losing and you are losing the fight with him. When you join in 2vs2 battle without weapons you Destroy your partner and your enemies balanced game. If you want fight, Read previous question.

A : How i will accept this idea? Now is still good without these 1-2 level ranges?
B : Cause when 3 players are 35 lvl and 1 is 31 lvl the 31 lvl on the team makes his partner lose for sure, there must be some justice.
smalling the level range will help the balance i think. 5 lvls pretty much difference and easy win for higher ones.

A : How if i`m 35 lvl and they add new npcs in the game like ( 30 - 31 lvl ) i challenge them cuz lvl difference is small?
B : I`m sure they can make exception for npc and bosses. they can be 5 lvls difference but pvp battles 2 lvls.

A : I`m low level and difference matters?
B : yeah its just same like 34-35 . but lower. 30 lvl = 3 weaps on ur self 20 lvl = 2 10 lvl = 1 minimum. This can be suggestion also. Depends on inventary score. INVENTARY!! not rarrity.


I think thats the most questions you could of asked me but answers of some are here. If you still got problem with my suggestion / idea and dissagree or agree wont be bad to reply your opinions.
Thanks



Mother1 -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/20/2012 14:21:57)

quote:

We need :
1 lvl or 2 lvls range :
There cannot be 2 varium players on each team.
Juggernaught = 35 lvl vs only 29 and 30 since Juggs are beating the crap of 26-27-28. and they are too easy for varium Juggernaughters.
Strategy = in 2vs2 there must be some tactic / strategy or plan they must do to kill an enemy. You cant enter in fight and do what you want. Otherwise u will lose the fight complettely. You must think, and do most smartest moves you can do.


All of these would only increase the wait time of fights and as I posted before we already have a player pool cut smaller then the server size for reasons I have posted before and your ideas for balance will only increase the wait time. This will hurt those who are trying to go for the 2 vs 2 LB as well as those who are trying to help their factions in two vs two.

Also what about for non varium Jugs? They play this as well are you trying to hurt non varium jugs just because it is you think it is too easy for varium jugs? Remember when looking at balance look at it for free to play not play to play.

Lastly I believe there is plenty of planning going on in two vs two. I always see players go after one person first then go after the other. Is that not a plan?

quote:

A : I was hacked.. how to back my weapons? i cant enter 2vs2 fight.
B : Eh, Thats hard part. U must do 1vs1 or NPCs because when you enter in battle without stuff you ruin other players game.
its better to lose the fight in 1vs1 than 2vs2 cause in 1vs1 you dont ruin people game, but in 2vs2 u do.


Ok two things. So a person must suffer battling one vs one just because they don't have full gear? Sorry to say but this is the most selfish thing I have ever heard. Plus there have been times I have been with these kinds of players and still won because even though they didn't look like much they still had an advantage over my opponents. 2 vs 2 is about teamwork and just because person without full gear may not look like much you never know what they can do.

Also as I stated before these same people could always buy the most garbage gear so they can have a full set of armor and boom they are back in two verses two once again. It won't help anyone and it won't solve anything.

quote:

A : How i will accept this idea? Now is still good without these 1-2 level ranges?
B : Cause when 3 players are 35 lvl and 1 is 31 lvl the 31 lvl on the team makes his partner lose for sure, there must be some justice.
smalling the level range will help the balance i think. 5 lvls pretty much difference and easy win for higher ones.


Also not true. There have been many times where I have gotten a lower level partner and we still came out and won the duel. Just because you get a lower level partner doesn't mean you will lose the duel. The same could also be said if the situation is reversed and there is one level 35 and 3 level 31's. This doesn't mean that the level 35 31 team will win. It is all about how the duel plays out.




King Helios -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/20/2012 16:00:02)

As mother1 said, 2v2 is probably the most strategic and diverse battle mode.



Nub Apocalypse -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/21/2012 1:09:38)

Ok guys, here's an idea, just add a dam average % of the ED population for each battle mode in the leaderboards or wherever and people can just compare %s with whatever is there. What we really need to judge a player is knowing their % relative to the mean instead of using a constant (determined by 1v1 AND 2v2) as a comparison. 2v2 should only be rated through 2v2. Instead of claiming 2v2 is broken cause no-one has 90%s like there are in 1v1, people can actually look and say "Oh hey, looking at the average of the population, that guy actually isn't that bad as his 2v2 % compared to his 1v1 suggests...".



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/21/2012 6:27:36)

people do not have 90%++ in 2v2 as there is no 2v2 npc if the devs removed npc for the 1v1 % i m sure no 1 in 1v1 would have 90%++



King Helios -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/21/2012 9:58:38)

^ Very true.

What makes 2v2 so difficult, besides the lack of NPCs?



Stabilis -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/21/2012 11:26:53)

@Nub Apocalypse,

I think you mean median, not mean.



Mother1 -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/21/2012 12:20:29)

At Luna and King

if you were in the infernal war there was 2 vs 2 NPC for that extent. anyone in that war got it for that short period of time. But that is all there was for that though.



Warmaker04 -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/21/2012 12:56:19)

Dude. U can win if your partner is 31 lvl and u 35 lvl but only if u both full variums against 2 35s which arent vars or in case 35 n 31 lvl can rare win. That question is also inside my post. And yeah again strategy. LOOK down there is a more .
You can answer ur self.

Non var juggs same level range lol it fight 26 lvl. I did said only for full varium ones to fight 29-30.
Answered ur self

Noob part : Idk what you mean but there is noob like Auxuaryhit15damage which go in 2vs2 battles and what? 3 damage. Wow. He was best. He did epicly move really. ...................0 was 35 lvl w/o stuff the another person. what he did? Just 8 damage and died.

I can list you a big list of noob partner which they did nothing.
There are also bad partners, but they are trying atleast to win or help, and concentrating on fight, but Aux and ...0 and alot of more players just do 3 damage with their 45 hp dieing in 1 hit and thats the fight.

I agree there are some players without gears but they atleast help. Cause there is some like THEM, But they dont help or concentrating in fight.
so this can be true

on other jugg/ 35,31 lvl part/ lets start with jugg : i dont agree much cause i meant for varium jugg i think u didnt saw {unfair part} : 35 and 31 can win only if they are full vars vs two 35 lvls which are non vars , or with luck, or with bad stuffs , Or they just did their best and played good. but thats 5% change to win with that kind of unfairness, if we except if 35 lvls two have bad stuff and 31/35 got good.

I understand you.



Mother1 -> RE: Is 2v2 Balanced? (11/21/2012 13:42:03)

@ warmaker04

In jug fights the opponents can't have the same level gear as the Jug it is a built in rule. So if the jug has 30-34 gear anyone with that level gear or higher will be weened out. It is a way to make it so the jug isn't overwhelmed by his/her opponents which is a reason why sometimes Jugs get 26-28 level players even when at level 35. The gap in gear is terrible.

Also they eased things up for the players who are fighting Jugs as well. I remmeber when it was even harder then it was now for non jug players when they fought jugs and in my last jug fight I had my opponents not only trash talking me but saying how much easier it was for them to beat jugs and that they wished jugs would keep coming so they can destroy them. In other words the staff has been helping them in terms of jug battles as well.

quote:

Dude. U can win if your partner is 31 lvl and u 35 lvl but only if u both full variums against 2 35s which arent vars or in case 35 n 31 lvl can rare win. That question is also inside my post. And yeah again strategy. LOOK down there is a more .
You can answer ur self.


So not true. I have had quite a few fights when there was one non varium on each side, two variums on one side and a varium and non varium on the other (me having the non varium partner) Or me being the only varium player in the group and I still came out on top. There have also been the reverse of this as well. I remember when I was playing against two 31's and I was the only 35 in the group and I still lost. I mean sure I was the last player to go and they targeted me, but the point is that unbalanced odds doesn't always favor the side with the advantage.

Also there was a time where I won against 2 34 players when I only had level 31 with the apprentice staff. The reason for this was they were both energy attackers, my partner has 100+ tech which gave him an advantage in this fight, and they choose to come after me first because even with me being fully equipped they saw me as the bigger threat. But my point is that anything can happen in 2 vs 2 so you should never underestimate your partner. If I get a bad partner or someone who looks bad I still work with them or have them work with me. That is all about the teamwork of this battle mode and even though there have been times I haven't won, a few times my opponents even said we did better then what they thought we would do.



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