No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance



Message


RageSoul -> No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/1/2012 3:36:27)

Okay , i have been noticing that ever since the Devs added new Primary Specials after Lucky Strike ( +2% / 7% hit chance to Strike ) and Mark of Azrael ( to the newer players , it made its first appearance in Azrael's bane last 2010 , February ) , they made more weapons with new specials such as FrostBite ( & Aura ) , Curse ( & Aura ) and Icy Chill ( not really a problem since it only works currently on George Lowe only ) . I find these still "okay" , but afterwards , they began making more , and this time , the next set is what i "REALLY don't care what happens or what it does , as long as it's gone or nerfed"

Massive Strike
What it does : Adds more damage to Criticals of ANY ATTACK ( yes , that includes the majority dubbed Caster TM's Plasma Bolt , which , OFC , even if it deals 70+ damage when MAXED , still you won't benefit from it greatly.) by ignoring 65% of DEF/RES .
Where can you find it : Infernal Interdictor
--> Maybe i should claim this as a "no-competition-it's-definitely-obvious-awarded-to-OP-Catergory" Special . Why you asked? lol 50% DEF/RES ignore from Criticals is already a pain , what more if it was 65%? And it also stacks with Rage . No wondere many people kept on claiming some builds ( and classes ) are OPed!


Next one is ...

Chairman's Fury
What it does :
Drains 25% of current Rage ; deals 100% Primary Damage ; Physical ; Unblockable ; Can be stacked with Rage and Massive Strike .
Where to find it : Platinum's Pride
--> okay , i'm not saying this is the most OPed , but if you guys are gonna look at it again , it gives a FREE UNINTERUPTABLE/UNBLOCKABLE STRIKE and it drains 25% Rage ... at the same time ( *gasp*) ! This is very suitable for those STR spammers out there with pretty low DEX .

I only dubbed some as nearly/very OPed because the rest just seemed like they are but not really . How come? Let's take a look at some , shall we :

* Stun Shot - 5% Stun Chance . Does not get affected by Shadows Arts or Support's influence . Works only when either using Stun Blaster or Stun Cannon. ( Fine as it is )
* Spreadfire- damages everyone from the other side . Deals 85% Gun Damage . Stackable with Rage & normal/Massive Strike Crits. Works only on Dage's Boomstick weapons( seemingly OPed but only works on 2v2 , which is good because majority go on 1v1 but bad because it brings the OPedness and pain to a whole new level ) .

And the rest? Not a threat to PVP , but only to certain NPCs .

Now here are my suggestions of specials ( if ever the Devs would rather make Balance in Items than classes ) :

Neutralizer Ray
quote:

Disables the opponent's Primary Special for the entire battle . If used on 2v2 , however , it targets randomly . Available only on a Primary . Activates when you get first in battle . Does not need to be activited via clicking and does not waste you turn .

--> useless against Primary's without Specials , and we still have Gun , Armor and Robot Specials.

Hunter's Rage - REJECTED
quote:

Deals additional damage on Boss NPCs by ignoring 10% of DEF . Available only on a Physical Sword Stacks with Rage and/or Crits . Only works on Striking .

--> useful for farming and / or cheevo hunting ( to make it up for everyone , simply giving it a higher Rarity Score would help ).

Leeching Shot - REJECTED
quote:

Has a chance of 3% to drain 7 EP and gives you 3 EP . Only works on using the gun . If the opponent was Leeched on the previous Gun attack , this will do no effect if it triggers again until the time gap is now 2 Gun attacks between G.A 1 and G.A 3. Available only on Guns .

--> Strategical yet not OPed . Perfect for those "AHHHH-1 EP -lacking-i-need-to-some-moar-*grunting*" experiences !

Well , there goes all of it , so i want these to be implemented so that players would go more on "less OPed luck , more balanced luck" ( wait , we have balance? )

















Mother1 -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/1/2012 8:54:36)

The first one not supported. Remember when the Azreal borg was nerfed so it wouldn't affected the bio borg special? Well the first skill you are trying to redo what the azreal could do the bio borg but with item specials which is on a much larger scale. It would also make other skills worthless such as Jack o fire frostbite. If this hit the game it wouldn't be any fun anymore since any special would be worthless if you came across a person with this item. Plus the chairman's fury comes from the armor not a primary so you wouldn't even be getting at that with this.

Also even before this weapon came along builds were OP. Think about it? Would they have nerfed BM fireball if they weren't I mean they were OP since before this weapon came along along with the Plasma bolt casters use, as well as Str builds. Please don't claim that builds are OP just because of a weapon that adds 15% more damage when an attack crits.

Oh there is something else you forgot though. The chairman's fury isn't the only free unblockable hit. The special with the azreal borg, pyro fly, and the baby yeti are also free unblockable its that can only be used once per battle with the exception of the Azreal since it work every time a buff is on your opponents.

However with the last two not bad ideas.




deltaknight7 -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/1/2012 9:01:28)

i agree that some of the abilities right now are a bit too powerful but leeching shot is a little too weak most times ppl will have 2 or 3 extra energy also pretty useless against tech mage
hunters rage... do we really want more ppl to farm npc for wins?
neutralizer ray would only really be good against infernal weps




RageSoul -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/2/2012 1:23:59)

quote:

Also even before this weapon came along builds were OP. Think about it? Would they have nerfed BM fireball if they weren't I mean they were OP since before this weapon came along along with the Plasma bolt casters use, as well as Str builds. Please don't claim that builds are OP just because of a weapon that adds 15% more damage when an attack crits.


I think you missed my point . See , if a build is already OPed without the specials , heck why give them more OPed abilities? Mind you , BM isn't the only class that fully beneifts from this .

quote:

Oh there is something else you forgot though. The chairman's fury isn't the only free unblockable hit. The special with the azreal borg, pyro fly, and the baby yeti are also free unblockable its that can only be used once per battle with the exception of the Azreal since it work every time a buff is on your opponents.

Whoops , forgot about those , but apparently Chairman's Fury can be done more than once , which is why i makes things seem OPed.


quote:

i agree that some of the abilities right now are a bit too powerful but leeching shot is a little too weak most times ppl will have 2 or 3 extra energy also pretty useless against tech mage
hunters rage... do we really want more ppl to farm npc for wins?
neutralizer ray would only really be good against infernal weps

1) Hmmm , i couldn't think of better abilities that won't be OPed but okay , lemme just raise it up to 10 EP , but this time ,no EP regain and the EP drain does not trigger Reroute .
2) It only works on Boss NPCs , but yeah , they can just farm on some easier ones , so let it be workable on Bosses that are at the same level , but it ignore 15% DEF instead .
3) It could also work on the Frost Destroyer/Slayer weapons , but in case they ( Devs ) don't want to nerf the other weapons , this can be useful.




ReinXI -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/2/2012 2:31:02)

saying infernal is OP is like saying luck is OP

Its LUCK BASED ok great he got lucky and got in that crit for huge damage what about the other 30 times he hasn't gotten a crit and died because of it? just because you lose to a crit doesn't make the weapon boosting crit damage OP.

as much as I hate the chairmans fury ( its lame that it does 100% damage and unblockable ) I really don't find it that bad.. one time a fight
only change I can think of is something like 70% damage 25% rage drain doesn't stack with rage/ crit modifier 0.0 ( not crits possible )
( if thats to much give it 100% damage back but keep the no rage/ crits )

idea one
Not supported ~ thats useless plus if 4 people are using that weapon well then what was the point in the skill? your neutralizing the neutralizer pointless.
Idea two
Not supported ~ We don't need more people farming npcs there already easy enough sheesh..
Idea three
supported/ not supported ~ Like the idea of a "leech" special but I can see wear it could get really.. really annoying ( possibly op ) think about it.. leeched then emped .. or leeched then atom/ assimilated yeah so not supported





RageSoul -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/2/2012 2:38:34)

quote:

saying infernal is OP is like saying luck is OP

Its LUCK BASED ok great he got lucky and got in that crit for huge damage what about the other 30 times he hasn't gotten a crit and died because of it? just because you lose to a crit doesn't make the weapon boosting crit damage OP.

as much as I hate the chairmans fury ( its lame that it does 100% damage and unblockable ) I really don't find it that bad.. one time a fight
only change I can think of is something like 70% damage 25% rage drain doesn't stack with rage/ crit modifier 0.0 ( not crits possible )
( if thats to much give it 100% damage back but keep the no rage/ crits )

Well , let's just say it worsens the condition of luck , and as we all know that the luck here is somewhat faulty most of the time .

quote:

Not supported ~ thats useless plus if 4 people are using that weapon well then what was the point in the skill? your neutralizing the neutralizer pointless.
Idea two
Not supported ~ We don't need more people farming npcs there already easy enough sheesh..
Idea three
supported/ not supported ~ Like the idea of a "leech" special but I can see wear it could get really.. really annoying ( possibly op ) think about it.. leeched then emped .. or leeched then atom/ assimilated yeah so not supported

1) It's not supposed to be the "next big thing" . And besides , it's a Primary , so if it can neutralize all , then that'll be the signal of it being OPed .
2)
quote:

Deals additional damage on Boss NPCs by ignoring 10% of DEF . Available only on a Physical Sword Stacks with Rage and/or Crits . Only works on Striking .

3) Hence , the 3% chance and the special doing no effect if it triggers again .




Exploding Penguin -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 0:36:54)

Your suggestions sound pretty creative, I could stand to see those in-game!

This really sounds more like complaining because you lack varium to purchase either weapon. I know this sounds like I'm being snobby, having var and all, but those specials are part of the special bonus varium players get for supporting the game and spending their money on it. There's a 30 str req on interdictor and not that much base support given by it to balance out support builds with it. Plus, another 15% damage from a normal crit, even on tanks, is like an additional 5-7 damage. That can really help sometimes, but it's not super OP like when it was 75% instead of 65%, where you'd get damage boosts from normal crits in the 8s and 9s. Spreadfire only works well on rage, deadly aim, or strength builds for obvious reasons. If you had a spreadfire gun, you could actually realize some limitations it has too. It's forced to use its spreadfire in 2v2 until there's only 1 opponent left. If the opponent has a high block chance (persay I have low dex or they have high dex and/or shadow) and I want to use my gun to ensure a kill, but I have spreadfire, I can't ensure it becuase of the 85% damage instead of 100%. Also, it's possible to do LESS damage overall with spreadfire than with a normal gun of +35 damage, given the correct circumstances, which can actually happen quite often in 2v2. Chairman's fury complaints do make sense, though. Even though it drains 25% of my rage, I often find myself taking so much damage from the str build that I still have rage even after they use it though.




Mother1 -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 1:37:21)

quote:

I think you missed my point . See , if a build is already OPed without the specials , heck why give them more OPed abilities? Mind you , BM isn't the only class that fully beneifts from this .


You claimed that the II made these skills OP when they were already OP. That was the point I was pointing out. Plus most of these moves are OP because the stat they would with are OP we all know str is OP right now and what you are suggesting is only a temporary fix. If you take care of the source (AKA the OP stat) then all the moves that are OP with it will go down in power, and the effect of the weapon you seem to want nerfed into the ground won't hurt as much. Also Massive strike was nerfed! it used to add 25% more damage to crits for a total of 75% (since crits themselves ignores 50%) now it does 15% for a total of 65%. Last I checked that is a nerf.

Lastly remember the post that they said about didn't want one bot countering another bot in the bot balance thread sometime ago? I highly doubt they would add a weapon into the game that would affect the other weapons abilities in the game just because someone doesn't like the ability it gives. So the neutralizer ability would never make it into the game based on that principal.

quote:

Whoops , forgot about those , but apparently Chairman's Fury can be done more than once , which is why i makes things seem OPed.


The chairman's fury can only be done one. It was the Azreal borg that can be done more then once but only if the opponent is buffed when the bot returns from cool down.





ReinXI -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 1:42:24)

still not supported for any of those ^ sorry Leech is the only interesting idea

and yes chairmans can only be used once ( still unfair it does 100% unblockable/ stacks with rage and such though.. plenty of people ( especially BH use after mass) use it when they have rage.




Wootz -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 3:37:33)

quote:

wondere

wonder*

@Massive Strike,
so you're stating that random luck is over-powered because you get a critical every, lets say four battles? Even when abusing Support to the extreme, you won't get a critical that often. Even when you have a maximum chance of getting, you'll still see how crappy you can be when you lose to someone because the key to your build isn't doing what is it meant to do. Generally, I wouldn't care about this, but I'm 100% sure that you "abused" *Insert crazy stupid voice in that "" part* the Infernal Interdictors special, oops you don't have them. So, you're technically saying something that doesn't really mean nothing, but you are so pissed because of it because you have nothing else to do then bore us to death here?

@Chairmans Fury,
Oh, you're complaining about a skill that does 100% primary damage and steals 25% Rage. I belive there is a certain skill called Surgical Strike which potentially does even more then 100% of primary damage and holy crap!? It steals 25% of your opponents Rage! Holy crap! It's OP! AMG AMG AMG OP SCREW THIS U NERF DAT CUZ IT BE OP! (yes, that's what you sound like). Also, if you didn't know. There are people who don't abuse Strenght and have a medium, of lets say 15-18+34 Primary. They can't do that much, can they? And, yes, they do exist if you are so blind.

@Spreadfire,
if this weapons special is over-powered, then my mother is a *CENSOR*-star. How can you say that something that deals 85% damage to two targets is over-powered? Every Spreadfire I see is less then 12 damage on each person, which clearly isn't over-powered.

@Neutralizer Ray,
firstly, I want my money back for every weapon that has a special. Secondly, it would make no sense to buy weapons that have a special if any noob can remove them. And damn! It doesn't even waste a turn. What are you trying to do? Make the players who support the game suffer? Because if that's the case you better just quit.

@Hunters Rage,
so, you're suggesting to make achievment NPCs not a challenge? They are supposed to be one. If you got a problem with beating them, there is the screwed up Battle Strategy Index Board.

@Leeching Shot,
clearly that isn't over-powered. I was being sarcastic. And about that. And about that, aswell. (mindception!) Taking away Energy by a shot to the cross, leave you dead in a ditch. (yeah, it deserved some more content to the sentence, makes it more beautiful) is:
a) unrealistic
b) lame & stupid
c) not needed
č) screws up builds
ć) there is always an Energy drain on almost every class
d) you're a Bounty Hunter, use the EMP Grenade





TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 6:19:11)

@lord aegis: u kiddin me? infernal interdictor op? it works on a chance just like deflection or block. it only works really well if im using a ultra support build and im vsing a person with no stat points added to their support at all. don't blame massive strike just because you get knocked flying when they crit. i hardly do 2 crits per battle.
and your first skill suggestion would never be most likely to be implemented since that destroys the whole point of having a primary weapon that has its own unique specials. and you also sound a little jealous of the infernal interdictor maybe cus u don't have it?




RageSoul -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 8:20:49)

Sorry for not posting for some time ...

@Triz
lol where's your proof that i'm jeal ? Sure it can be deflected / blocked , but then again their luck-based effects also .

@Wootz
quote:

@Massive Strike,
so you're stating that random luck is over-powered because you get a critical every, lets say four battles? Even when abusing Support to the extreme, you won't get a critical that often. Even when you have a maximum chance of getting, you'll still see how crappy you can be when you lose to someone because the key to your build isn't doing what is it meant to do. Generally, I wouldn't care about this, but I'm 100% sure that you "abused" *Insert crazy stupid voice in that "" part* the Infernal Interdictors special, oops you don't have them. So, you're technically saying something that doesn't really mean nothing, but you are so pissed because of it because you have nothing else to do then bore us to death here?

@Chairmans Fury,
Oh, you're complaining about a skill that does 100% primary damage and steals 25% Rage. I belive there is a certain skill called Surgical Strike which potentially does even more then 100% of primary damage and holy crap!? It steals 25% of your opponents Rage! Holy crap! It's OP! AMG AMG AMG OP SCREW THIS U NERF DAT CUZ IT BE OP! (yes, that's what you sound like). Also, if you didn't know. There are people who don't abuse Strenght and have a medium, of lets say 15-18+34 Primary. They can't do that much, can they? And, yes, they do exist if you are so blind.

@Spreadfire,
if this weapons special is over-powered, then my mother is a *CENSOR*-star. How can you say that something that deals 85% damage to two targets is over-powered? Every Spreadfire I see is less then 12 damage on each person, which clearly isn't over-powered.

@Neutralizer Ray,
firstly, I want my money back for every weapon that has a special. Secondly, it would make no sense to buy weapons that have a special if any noob can remove them. And damn! It doesn't even waste a turn. What are you trying to do? Make the players who support the game suffer? Because if that's the case you better just quit.

@Hunters Rage,
so, you're suggesting to make achievment NPCs not a challenge? They are supposed to be one. If you got a problem with beating them, there is the screwed up Battle Strategy Index Board.

@Leeching Shot,
clearly that isn't over-powered. I was being sarcastic. And about that. And about that, aswell. (mindception!) Taking away Energy by a shot to the cross, leave you dead in a ditch. (yeah, it deserved some more content to the sentence, makes it more beautiful) is:
a) unrealistic
b) lame & stupid
c) not needed
č) screws up builds
ć) there is always an Energy drain on almost every class
d) you're a Bounty Hunter, use the EMP Grenade

1) Nope , i'm not pissed by it , it just encourages luck , luck and more luck . And guess what? Did you noticed that going offensive is becoming a must rather than a strategic option . Plus , it buffs them OP STR builds and skills ( e.g Cheap Shot ) .
2) It doesn't cost any EP , can be done multiple times , and stacks with Rage . Oh BTW , it happens to be stackable with Massive Strike , too .
3) I didn't say it's definitely , in fact , it's not really much of a threat for me at all !
4) You still have Bots , Guns and Armor Specials , but i think it's better that some effects won't be affected by it.
5) Nah , not really , just trying to make things more interesting .
6) I could say FrostBite's also OPed since it takes away 15 EP / 3 turns , while this only takes small amounts of EP and does no effect if the target got "leeched".
a) Same with the other effects ; how on Earth can you launch a heavily armored guy via uppercut if you have , like , puny muscles ? Or how about launching with just a Robot with low Focus and low TECH?
b) Well , okay .
c1) Same with the others .
c2) I know , i never complained about it.
d) I do , it just happens to be somewhat useless against them STR spammers.




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 9:19:02)

@lord aegis: the armor is a powersuit......duh
and strength abusers hardly crit only cheapshot that has a chance to crit. only 5 focus with high support is the main concern.
still this game needs more luck when strength abusers with less dex and tech running around.




Wootz -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 10:50:05)

quote:

1) Nope , i'm not pissed by it , it just encourages luck , luck and more luck . And guess what? Did you noticed that going offensive is becoming a must rather than a strategic option . Plus , it buffs them OP STR builds and skills ( e.g Cheap Shot ) .
2) It doesn't cost any EP , can be done multiple times , and stacks with Rage . Oh BTW , it happens to be stackable with Massive Strike , too .
3) I didn't say it's definitely , in fact , it's not really much of a threat for me at all !
4) You still have Bots , Guns and Armor Specials , but i think it's better that some effects won't be affected by it.
5) Nah , not really , just trying to make things more interesting .
6) I could say FrostBite's also OPed since it takes away 15 EP / 3 turns , while this only takes small amounts of EP and does no effect if the target got "leeched".
a) Same with the other effects ; how on Earth can you launch a heavily armored guy via uppercut if you have , like , puny muscles ? Or how about launching with just a Robot with low Focus and low TECH?
b) Well , okay .
c1) Same with the others .
c2) I know , i never complained about it.
d) I do , it just happens to be somewhat useless against them STR spammers.


1. And what's the problem in here really?
2. It can be done once in a battle, argument destroyed.
3. And why did you list it then?
4. It's better that none effect are affected by it.
5. I wonder how it would be more interesting then easily winning. Looks like that is the point of it.
6. I could say that Alpha daggers are over-powered. It means the same as yours.
a. Obviously you never trained any fighting sports before. Robots have nothin' to do with this.
b. 'kay.
c. It ain't.
č. And using an EP drain is hard?
d. Not really, it's the only reason I can beat Bounty Hunters




Mother1 -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 11:07:13)

@ Lord Aegis

while it seems you don't like the chance factor, guess what? Without it those same overpowered str builds and ever other overpowered build would be ruling the game without opposition. Why because they don't need it to deal heavy damage to anyone not using an OP build. It has been said several times already that Strength needs a nerf because it is OP and when that happens all of those OP moves you are complaining about will go down in power.

If luck was removed Support builds would fail since they make this build for a higher chance to crit (which comes with chance/luck) since strength builds and every other overpowered build would go through them, Dex build would fail since they use this for high block chance which will be gone since Blocks also work with chance, any stun move would be worthless because that works with chance and there would no deflection because it works with chance. Underdog players would go since the chances for blocks deflections, crits and stun will be gone as well. The game would be 100% be a OP build or die! Since many builds wouldn't be able to work without it. Also guess what? Ever other weapon that a special that is primary works with the same chance factor not just massive strike.

Jack o fire 13% chance of the effect happening when striking
Mark of Azreal increase crit chance by 5% with strikes
thorn assault 15% chance of this working with strikes

All of these works with the same chance you are claiming the II promotes yet you are fine with those but what the II nerfed. Also if you remember it was nerfed like you and many others have been requesting. In fact it lost 40% of it overall effect which is a hefty nerf yet you are still complaining about it. In all honestly I don't think it is the luck factor that bothers you, I think it is the fact that they made this weapon work with every attack in the game while the other weapons work only with strike. I even remember you saying in several threads that it needed to be made just like ever other primary weapon before it and be limited to strikes.




Stabilis -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 11:54:29)

quote:

Without it those same overpowered str builds and ever other overpowered build would be ruling the game without opposition.


That just means Strength is "overpowered" and should be nerfed. Random chance helps no one.




Mother1 -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 12:01:09)

quote:

That just means Strength is "overpowered" and should be nerfed. Random chance helps no one.]


Yes it has since blocks, crits, deflection, and stun all work with this and you can't deny that. Yes str needs a nerf which I posted in that same post.

But on another note do you support any of the OP's ideas for specials?





Stabilis -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 12:27:03)

Not so much because they are very selective. Energy drain on Sidearm? NPC aversion? ← No use in PVP. Special disabler? Not all weapons have specials. These are much too selective for me to support.




RageSoul -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 21:21:09)

quote:

Not so much because they are very selective. Energy drain on Sidearm? NPC aversion? ← No use in PVP. Special disabler? Not all weapons have specials. These are much too selective for me to support.

1) Leeching Shot - okay , this is pretty much rejected.
2) Hunter's Rage - same
3) Neutralizer Ray - yeah , that's the point , it's useless against special-less Primaries but useful in the other way around .




quote:

If luck was removed Support builds would fail since they make this build for a higher chance to crit (which comes with chance/luck) since strength builds and every other overpowered build would go through them, Dex build would fail since they use this for high block chance which will be gone since Blocks also work with chance, any stun move would be worthless because that works with chance and there would no deflection because it works with chance. Underdog players would go since the chances for blocks deflections, crits and stun will be gone as well. The game would be 100% be a OP build or die! Since many builds wouldn't be able to work without it. Also guess what? Ever other weapon that a special that is primary works with the same chance factor not just massive strike.

I never said remove the luck , what i'm saying is that they worsen the luck we have , which , OFC ,is more often wonky .


quote:

Jack o fire 13% chance of the effect happening when striking
Mark of Azreal increase crit chance by 5% with strikes
thorn assault 15% chance of this working with strikes

* Jack o' Fire - no comment on this
* Mark of Azrael - nothing wrong with this since + % Crit Chance to Strikes =/= all attacks
* Thorn Assault - again no comment on this .

quote:

I think it is the fact that they made this weapon work with every attack in the game while the other weapons work only with strike. I even remember you saying in several threads that it needed to be made just like ever other primary weapon before it and be limited to strikes.

And that's the problem : it affects ALL attacks , and in fact , i've seen you saying Caster TM is OPed ( even though it isn't )when they got it's much needed buff ( in case you haven't been here since Beta or Gamma , their pretty much useless back then since 1) Malf destroys it and 2) low stats are available ; therefore , weak ) . And if you give them this ( Infernal Interdictor ) , then i won't be surprised by those complaints about it only because of some equipment allowing them to do such things.


But anyway , thank you guys for the feedback.




Mother1 -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/3/2012 23:11:16)

@ Lord Aegis

I said this several time already and I will say it again. The staff would never introduce neutralizer into the game with any kind of weapon. It will do what the Azreal borg did to the bio borg before it's nerf only worse (since the azreal still level 1/5 of the buff while your ability will neutralize all primary specials) here is the qoute from that bot balance thread relating to this.

quote:

Azrael's Borg

It no longer affects Thorns because we don't want one bot to be a complete counter to another. This effectively prevented
the Bioborg bot from being useful in any real way.


The staff themselves said it with the azreal borg that they didn't want one thing countering another's ability and neutralizer will do just that make primary special not be useful in any kind of way. So I would say give up trying to get this into the game because it would be that all over again.

Now I have to ask you why are you blaming the II for all the balance issues in the game. Casters right now are OP. Every other skill in the game that does damage has a stat requirement yet plasma bolt and plasma rain doesn't. Remember stats requirements are added into the game so skills can't be abused yet since these don't have them they are being just that abused. I love the TM class heck I am a tech mage but just because I am a TM doesn't mean I will defend OP'ness in my class.

Plasma bolt needs a slight nerf and even remember you admitting this in an old balance thread so please stop trying to say they aren't OP. Besides I know you went up against a caster TM that has 140 health and 100+ energy. I have and even as a TM I beaten 3-5 of these casters when I fight them but most are very close. But my worse loss by one came when I was fighting a level 24 caster mage who had 154 tech (aka tech spammer) and a 46 technician on him from his partner. Then I got hit with a rage plasma bolt which took me out since it did 74 damage which didn't crit me and no he wasn't using the war weapon either. What is worse to wear is that I wasn't malf I had 36-42 resistance, and I had 68 health! Now tell me how is that not OP? and don't say it was the war weapon's fault because he didn't crit me, and he didn't have the war weapon.

When a caster can abuse tech with a move that powers up quickly with said stat and unleash that kind of damage on a person even with rage who has high resist you know that the move is OP! It this had happened with the war weapon critting me I wouldn't be so upset about this since I know that it was a crit and it was powered up. However that isn't the case and so stop trying to blame this weapon that powers up crits (which is completely by chance) for all balance issues.





RageSoul -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/4/2012 6:03:51)

quote:

The staff themselves said it with the azreal borg that they didn't want one thing countering another's ability and neutralizer will do just that make primary special not be useful in any kind of way. So I would say give up trying to get this into the game because it would be that all over again.

Hence it's called a suggestion . I never said it should be implemented immediately or something .


quote:

Plasma bolt needs a slight nerf and even remember you admitting this in an old balance thread so please stop trying to say they aren't OP. Besides I know you went up against a caster TM that has 140 health and 100+ energy. I have and even as a TM I beaten 3-5 of these casters when I fight them but most are very close. But my worse loss by one came when I was fighting a level 24 caster mage who had 154 tech (aka tech spammer) and a 46 technician on him from his partner. Then I got hit with a rage plasma bolt which took me out since it did 74 damage which didn't crit me and no he wasn't using the war weapon either. What is worse to wear is that I wasn't malf I had 36-42 resistance, and I had 68 health! Now tell me how is that not OP? and don't say it was the war weapon's fault because he didn't crit me, and he didn't have the war weapon.

1) 2v2 =/= 1v1 . Very simple logic , yeah?
2) Look , i've witnessed how weak they were before the PB and Overload buff . How weak they were you say? Simple :
*Mercs : Old HA + E Armor + Decent TECH = PB out! - it ( Hybrid Armor ) used to be giving +12 DEF / RES ( and it costs 1 turn to switch from Physical to Energy and vice versa ) , and it can be combo'd with Energy Armor , and did i even mention to you that you need A LOT of stats to use just to make it great? SC was improved by DEX and Plasma Rain improved with TECH back then , but i guess you seem to have not witnessed it so it's not a surprise that you blaming them OPed because "they can do 40 -50 Damage , heal a Lvl. 5 FM" and so on and so forth .
3) 154 TECH gives a bonus +51 PB Damage and you said it Rage was present right? Then you blame the partnering system , not the build .
4) The Infernal Interdictor wasn't the only weapon in choice / available . We have Beta Brutalizer , Frost Destroyer ( Staff ) , Beta Blaster and the list goes on . You know , i'm beginning to think that you kinda ignored the part where in one of my posts said (in case you did read it ):
quote:

Gear ( especially the ones that are placement-wise ) - Tesla Armor , Caden's Wrath , Dark Heart , Beta Brutalizer , Voltzooka and the like . You know , the most common things that make the similar are them giving lots / decent amounts of TECH and get this : most require NO STR! *gasps*

So now , you realize that some of these all give that build flexibility in spamming , but have you tried using a set of gear that requires 30+ STR , SUPP and IDK , any value of TECH and DEX to use while trying to have 100+ EP and 140 HP , having 100+ TECH and decent DEX , at the same time?

quote:

When a caster can abuse tech with a move that powers up quickly with said stat and unleash that kind of damage on a person even with rage who has high resist you know that the move is OP! It this had happened with the war weapon critting me I wouldn't be so upset about this since I know that it was a crit and it was powered up. However that isn't the case and so stop trying to blame this weapon that powers up crits (which is completely by chance) for all balance issues.


Why not , Mother1 ? I can say the same thing to blocks , crits and deflects . And like you said , "by chance" . So that means , it can happen in a row , or sometimes , not . It doesn't matter how frequent it is , what matters is the effect .

Okay , i'll show an illustration :
PLAYER A has Platinum's Pride , has higher SUPP , and decent / high defenses and damage values ; TLM
PLAYER B has Infernal Interdictor , lower SUPP, but decent Primary/Sidearm Damage and has ; CH

Up to you what's their other equipment , just make sure their max levels are from levels 33 to 35

PLAYER B Goes First. PLAYER A has 33 - 40 + 1 + (insert number below 10 but not below 5 ) .

Say , let's assume that both Massive Strike and Chairman's Fury happened 2 - 3 times in the row from Rounds 1 - 2 / 1 - 3 . OFC , both their HP goes below 40 ( around 31 - 33) , and PLAYER A's Rage is filled up , but PLAYER B's , however , isn't . PLAYER A can do a Double Strike Rage or at least expect the same effect to happen again . No doubt , PLAYER A won .



Oh BTW , i might make more but it'll take times since i'm not trying to make them OPed or having the status "The Next Big Thing" .








TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/4/2012 6:20:39)

@lord aegis: don't you get it? promo weaps are meant to have specials and a bit more powerful than normal weapons otherwise who would get or use a promo weapon? if you have the infernal interdictor and you are still saying that is OPed we would atleast consider, but you are a non-varium player, so that makes us jump into conclusions that you are some what jealous of varium players having a special that benefits all attacks when we crit. just keep in mind about that. chance works in both positive and negative ways bcus sometimes we never get a crit in 5 or more battles and sometimes if we managed to click at the right time we will deal a crit. same as the ebil hazard husk drop from snork. i have fought snork 500+ times and he doesn't drop a single armor.




RageSoul -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/4/2012 6:28:46)

quote:

@lord aegis: don't you get it? promo weaps are meant to have specials and a bit more powerful than normal weapons otherwise who would get or use a promo weapon? if you have the infernal interdictor and you are still saying that is OPed we would atleast consider, but you are a non-varium player, so that makes us jump into conclusions that you are some what jealous of varium players having a special that benefits all attacks when we crit. just keep in mind about that. chance works in both positive and negative ways bcus sometimes we never get a crit in 5 or more battles and sometimes if we managed to click at the right time we will deal a crit. same as the ebil hazard husk drop from snork. i have fought snork 500+ times and he doesn't drop a single armor.

But they ( specials ) shouldn't be deciding the fate of balance just bey worsening the luck we have , strategy should . But yeah , you're right about the part of paying partners should be getting advantage , but like i said , their not supposed to sum-up the balance they shouldn't make the imbalance worse . And no , i'm not saying their OPed because i'm a non-Var , but because there have been people complaining some balanced classes only because some gear made them seem OPed .

I remember the time when i made my forum account ( that was before Delta BTW ) ,and i looked at the posts , and i was shocked that people are complaining "Mercs are OPed, OPed , 'cuz STR Maul-Zerk OPed it stuns " , even though it isn't .

And oh , i forgot about this post , so apologies for me being busy doing other things :
quote:

@lord aegis: the armor is a powersuit......duh
and strength abusers hardly crit only cheapshot that has a chance to crit. only 5 focus with high support is the main concern.
still this game needs more luck when strength abusers with less dex and tech running around.

Luck isn't the solution there , because mind you , they'll be getting those too .


EDIT : Whoops!




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/4/2012 6:43:40)

@lord aegis: this game is all about luck, with or without weapons with specials they can still be just as OP. take bm for example, they mostly use swords which has no specail skill and a phisical gun that doesnt have any special but guess wat they are the same as infernal interdictor users, no difference because it only has effect when they crit and nothing else. and
you shouldnt complain about platinum's pride because for me they nerfed it twice already, they made it fixed physical damage and they made it that you cant rage with it before you reach your full rage bar while stealing someone elses rage, it used to be so useful to me when it can deal energy damage but now not so much. and it depends on what build u use. non-var smoke and massacre bounty hunters can still pwn a fully enhanced varium player. and i got the infernal interdictor plus im a good build maker.




RageSoul -> RE: No to OPed Specials ; Yes to Anti-OPed Luck Specials (11/4/2012 6:51:13)

quote:

@lord aegis: this game is all about luck, with or without weapons with specials they can still be just as OP. take bm for example, they mostly use swords which has no specail skill and a phisical gun that doesnt have any special but guess wat they are the same as infernal interdictor users, no difference because it only has effect when they crit and nothing else. and
you shouldnt complain about platinum's pride because for me they nerfed it twice already, they made it fixed physical damage and they made it that you cant rage with it before you reach your full rage bar while stealing someone elses rage, it used to be so useful to me when it can deal energy damage but now not so much. and it depends on what build u use. non-var smoke and massacre bounty hunters can still pwn a fully enhanced varium player. and i got the infernal interdictor plus im a good build maker.

1) STR BH seems OPed ATM , not because of Smoke ... but because of Massacre . I agreed on that ( which i didn't really disagreed )
2) To the "Plat's Pride is nerfed part" - Well , okay , but i'm not requesting for a nerf to those ( this special + Infernal Interdictor), i just said they happened to be somewhat game-breaking since , well like you said , the game's now heavily luck-based .




Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition
0.171875