Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (Full Version)

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ReinXI -> Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 2:50:23)

OK seriously it's pretty obvious.. look at the 1v1 leaderboards .. its literally 70-80% bounty hunters ( or more ) that has to be a sign there is "something" wrong with balance



RageSoul -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 3:02:00)

And most of them are ... Strength . Only reason they seem dominating is because 1) the All-Time Leaderboards players are mostly BH 2) Offensive nowdays are better than going defensive and 3) you would barely people using Mercs & Tech Mages ... simply because people prefer more wins . BTW , just because you won't see alot of other classes doesn't mean they're useless , just less used .



Bunshichi -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 3:08:43)

Npc's and brainwash also speeds up the win rate.



ReinXI -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 3:11:48)

if thats the case make npcs not count towards wins.. but yeah I know at least the top 3 players on boards do a lot of 1v1 ( i fight them often xD ) and yeah pretty much there all str builds.. it's really really lame that I stand 0 chance at even making it onto the leader board just because I'm not using a specific build.



robo90925 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 3:32:40)

I think BH is making the game much too unbalanced. We are not seeing enough diversity in the classes. Too much people are using OPed builds and classes.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 21:29:25)

The only reason most of the people are BH on the 1v1 leaderboard are because BH str builds ARE NOT OP, they're just fast and provide a decent win rate. Remember that 1v1 leaderboards have very little to do with in-game skill, and mostly just play time in the game. The highest percentage win rates (around 98+) are people who mostly aren't BHs most of the time. It's ridiculous to say that just becuase people on the 1v1 leaderboard are mostly BHs, means that it's "proof" that BH is OP. If you've EVER faced anyone on the leaderboard at a fair level 35-35 fight (full var enhanced), you actually have a decent chance of winning if your build is pretty successful. Considering that most LB players have a 95-ish percent win rate, I'd conclude that since I can beat them with a fair chance, they NPC a LOT and use boosters quite often to help in those tricky situations that determine good win rates and moderately-good win rates. I win against str BHs all the time with multiple different classes, including the supposed underpowered merc. I think the str merc with high stun and zerker is far more effective than str BH given the right combination of equipment and stuff, I can 2-hit KO most non-var players and 3-4 hit KO pretty much everyone else. Even a block/deflect or two doesn't stop me from winning against another var player as long as zerker doesn't get blocked and I choose my moves correctly.



Mother1 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 21:57:43)

BH are op because if the LB? Oh please they are using the most OP builds to get quick wins. Also there is no diversity within builds because guess what? people want to win and if they see something that works (AKA overpower build) then they are going to use that build to get win.

A few months back it was Str BM that were ruling the LB and back then it was the most OP build in the game.

But my point is just because one build in a class is OP doesn't mean the whole class is OP.



ReinXI -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 22:13:12)

OK maybe BH as a class isn't but str builds are .. ( mass is the main culprit due to being paired up with bloodlust to regain way to much health than is fair due to the fact it almost always puts the other player in a hole that theres no way to climb out of due to the fact even if they heal 90-100% of the time the bounty will rage the very next turn.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 22:16:28)

I don't think massacre is particularly overpowered, but I agree that blood lust is the supreme passive right now. I think it should get nerfed by 1-2% and require support instead of technology at a higher rate so that it isn't abused at max level without some consequences on strength builds.



doomturtle -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 23:11:27)

there should not be a support requirement on blood lust that doesnt make sense smoke massacre and shadowarts all have support requirements already



Mother1 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/2/2012 23:13:29)

Doomturtle smokescreen improves with tech not support. If it improved with support then smoke would never improve with technician or be weakened by malfunction.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 0:09:22)

And how does having a support requirement make sense on massacre? Your statement makes no sense...

I still stand firm with my idea about increased requirement in support for blood lust. Let's say max blood lust requires 36-40 support. That'd definitely help tone down str abuse on unblockables like massacre.



Metallico -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 0:20:17)

massacre should not work with blood lust and be weaker...



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 0:25:06)

I really don't think that's too much of a problem.

If anything, massacre has just the right power and energy/support requirements.

All you need is an energy removing skill and massacre becomes instantly unusable.



robo90925 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 1:09:22)

I think BH is making the game unbalanced. Classes without energy removing skills are becoming unplayable. Assimilation doesn't remove enough energy, Atomic Strike is blockable (ecspeacially with Shadow Art!!!) and EMP is a BH skill!!! What do BM do??? Reflex isn't as effective as defence matrix (but defence matix is easily avoided by waiting a turn) , intimidate doesn't even affect massacre that much since it ususally runs out when they use massacre. Making blood lust weaker would be really unfair to BMs. So, really massacre is the one beening OP.

No, Strength is not the OP thing. BM with a strength is very prone to blocking (also because of shadow art). Plus, people say u can survive massacre with defence matrix. Well, guess what? Now Bh are leveling EMP (taking away 20-35 energy) so when a mage wants to defence matrix, we cant!!! Look, massacre is first, unblockable, adds more % than any other move, is used with blood lust, is also used with smoke. Just like a BM strength build, BH can easily survive with Blood lust by dealing high dmg. Weather you agree or not, anyone with some common sence will agree with me.

So what about shadow art??? How can you say so what??? So... blocks can be a big advantage, because most strength builds dont really level that much dex, they rely on shadow art to increase there chances of blocking. Your basically saying, one block cant change the game! Look, BM attacks with bludeon that would of done 40 dmg, because of strength build with BM, Bm has low dex, which then makes them prone to blocking; then, bounty hunter has shadow art, making it a high chance that bludgeon will be blocked. YOu cant say so what to these problems. People just care about wins, when Bm was OP, the leaderboard was filled with them. When TM was OP, the Leader Board was filled with them. Now, the cycle repeats again, but instead of BM or TM, it is now BH.




Mother1 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 1:18:19)

The only class that doesn't remove energy is BM and why would they need to? They have builds that are powerful without it besides them having blood lust and assimaltion is OP because with that they would gain health and energy at the same time.

Also Assimlation drains energy and makes half of it yours so while inflicting damage unlike the other moves that just drain energy.

Also Massacre isn't OP in the least. Str is the real thing that is OP and that is all we hear if you read these thread. the str (insert class here) is OP so let's nerf the moves they use to weaken them. This won't help and if anything will hurt the other classes that uses them.

BH isn't OP it is just the str build that is OP which can be taken care of with a good nerf to strength at the higher levels. Also so what if they have shadow arts. Just because they have the increased chance to block doesn't me they will block you.

Also weakening Massacre will hurt CH since they use this as well.



robo90925 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 3:49:15)

I am trying to get the message though the it isn't just the move massacre that is OP. It is BH itself!!! BH has the best move combos out in the game. The moves can easily destroy a anti BH build for most mages, also can destroy alot of blood mages and cyber hunters!

Normal tech mage combo for killing massacre:

Tech mage:
Malf > gun/assimilation (didnt take enough energy...or was blocked....) > Defence matrix oh wait... beened emped!! > heal/strike (If any energy, usually not though...)> aux/bot (usually dead)


A combo that can easily destroy the combo above^^^:

Bounty Hunter:
Energy shield > emp > smoke > massacre (since now defence matrix, even a high dex build now gets 70 dmg) > rage gun/strike
IF the tech mage, defence matrixed earlier, the BH just waits a turn till defence matrix is over...

PS: These BH usually runs around 80 energy, high enhanced strength usually 80+ and use Blood lust to survive.

Now, as you see this combo uses emp to counter against defence matrix. Now, i bet you are thinking about high energy builds now, well i can tell you that if you have high energy, you would either have low defence, resistance or health. Now who still thinks BHs combos are not OP???

Also: High dmg output classes usually relies on energy....




Wootz -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 3:50:44)

Proof where?



Mother1 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 4:00:19)

These are possible things that could happen but don't always happen. Last I checked these aren't 100% and it sounds like you are trying to send a balanced class with one OP build to the nerfing table when they don't need a nerf.



ReinXI -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 4:27:18)

I'm at least attempting to be fair with my nerfs I understand that BH are (*balanced*) but it's the synergy with BL and Mass that's the problem after massacre is used it's usually game over for anyone there fighting so you have to try and end it before that turn ( turn 3-4 or w/e ) the problem is.. BH have energy shield... which negates the -res of a malf so it makes it that much harder
to take them down. I haven't really had much trouble with emp BH tbh but energy shield I have.. and it is true.. defense matrix? they just wait an extra turn.. normally they regain enough hp through there regular attacks ( aux/ side/ bot ) that they can play the "waiting game" with most classes

No I don't want BH as a class to be thrown down the nerf stairway to crapdom

Energy shield? no keep it not Op emp? eh.. no issues imo, BL no it stays due to being used by BM, smoke? no it stays only class currently with that skill.. mass? I still say make it not be affected by BL or lower the % slightly ( 120% at max instead of 140%? ) one of those two would be fine imo.

but my worry/ want is to attack the roots of this horrid OP tree and that is the stat know as strength! that stupid stat needs to be reworked very.. very soon it's way to unfair at times who cares about defense when the guy you fight has enough to strength to make your defense look like your wearing paper armor ( no offense to people using cardboard crusader :P )



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 6:07:11)

BH are not op, bloodmages are op, when i changed to bm for a week guess wat? my 1v1 win rate increases dramatically. i use a lvl 5 energy shield with no reflex boost and lvl 4 intimidate strength build and lvl 4 field medic with 20-24 strength and 28-34 defence with 19-23 resistance....guess wat? i totally obliterated any strength abuse or a normal smoke emp and massacre bounty hunter. wat is really OP is the bloodmages if u use my build against any of the hunters they are dead. and DA is totally OPed because it destroys many non bm or tm classes since they remove the effect of passive armor and deal the actual weapon damage. so bm is the class that currently needs a nerf. i have tried to emp them but the thing is they don't actually need any energy or use shields they can battle just as smooth without them.



8x -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 11:48:03)

quote:

OK seriously it's pretty obvious.. look at the 1v1 leaderboards .. its literally 70-80% bounty hunters ( or more ) that has to be a sign there is "something" wrong with balance

Over used =/= Over powerd



classifiedname -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 13:51:38)

I dont think they are two overpowered its Just people use them more becuase they got tired of pwning with Blood mage(JOKE)... if i went support blood mage i could easily take on a str BH , simply by using felext boost and imtimadate...... or if i was tech mage i'd simply use a caster build... Just Becuase people use them more does not mean they are over powered its just means people like using Bounty Hunters. im sorry but i need more proof than that to agree..



Wrathchild -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 16:18:21)

I dont think they are Overpowered, they just use Bounty Hunter for Quick Wins in 1x1, But as you can see the K/D Ratio is rarely over 90%. There are a lot ways to stop it, Tech Mages can use Malfunction first and lower smokescreen power, then use Defense Matrix. Tactical Mercenaries have Mineral Armor to make his defense goes high, and can use Atom Smasher to remove energy for they dont use Massacre. Also Cyber Hunters can use Malfunction and Defense Matrix, and plus have Shadow Arts, which can help to block one time, and that makes them win. There is always some way to beat them, but luck also helps.



Warmaker04 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/3/2012 17:28:38)

Agreed with Wrathchild.



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