RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (Full Version)

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Mysterion. -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 5:39:31)

Oke, thats true.

But what if you do this:

Smoke lasts 3 turns, exactly enough to massacre.

What if you, take their energy right before massacre. Then they gotta booster right, but the smoke is gone, and it is way less dmg



rayniedays56 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 5:41:47)

They will more than likely smoke you again, and probably rage strike/cheapshot.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 5:42:17)

@above they would just smoke u and use boost after that. it happened to me lots of times



Mysterion. -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 5:48:49)

Im sorry to say, but you only think of what they would do.
If you take their twice. with more then 34.
That makes a total of 68
They can only recover 50.

Thats 16, that means 1 skill will be permanently gone. 1 smoke or 1 massacre.
And they lost 2 turns with smoke.

If you cant even beat them then, i have to say that youre just weak.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 5:50:42)

@above lol, try beating a good one then, i win against typical strength hunters but only lose to smart ones, i can suggest many of them to u to fight just don't cry to mommy after they beat u.



Mysterion. -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 6:03:25)

Well, i can see that you arent a smart player yourself.

Because energy taking is probably one of the best skills against a BH.
And not all BHs have E boosters.

And if you cant take their energy, try H boosters after each strike. and a heal after massacre. Then their energy is also gone.

And yes, there are smart BHs out there. But all players have a weak spot, and you should see them as a 'smart' player




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 6:57:22)

@above well i can see that u are not smart also, smart bh will also carry boosters and im sure you only vs those players that don't often carry boosters and you take that as a stereotype for all smoke and massacre hunters, smart players always carry boosters, i do too but you would't use it if you know that you will lose and i have a emp that takes away 32 energy then yet they still have enough to massacre. and trust me they don't need smoke anyways some of them have a lvl 6 emp. so you are a kinda person that don't fight much players with different varieties of builds. i can beat just about any 5 focus builds except 5 focus bloodmages. their health regain, intimidate and deadly aim are a pain.



gangster a -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 7:20:51)

^ mysterion trizz is taking about the majority of BHs plus not every strengh build is the same some have high smoke some have low some have high masscre some have low same for heal so each strengh build is indvidual on its own but ed is a game for adapting so you have to adapt.



Xraish -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 8:09:47)

http://puu.sh/1nsyd
Don't quite agree ...



robo90925 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 14:50:34)

Not everyone can use skills that take away energy. Some builds will get destroyed if they put a few points in another skill. Some builds just run a tight fit in skills. Like for example mages. My old mage just had no more skill points to allocate into assimilation. Now i play BM, I don't even have a energy removing skill... Plus, assimilation & atomic strike all can be blocked. It isn't always worth getting those skills, cause not all the people on 1v1 is BH. Ecspeacially assimilation. It takes too little energy to affect the other classes; example, i use assimilation on a TLM, well i can say it is not going to do much. Some skills just aren't worth getting for 1 class.

High tech BH are also very powerful!!! They have high smoke which is good because of their lower strength. I also see BH with 28-30+7 defence cause of platinum pride and 31-33+3. With 5 massacre (and rage stealing) they are still very deadly!!!



Mother1 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 14:59:23)

At Robo90925

What was your old mage build? and what kind of mage was it? I myself play as a TM now, and depending on build there is always a way to invest points into something you need that won't completely destroy the build.

Also TM energy draining move unlike the others drain energy and give you half of it along with doing damage so of course it isn't going to be a strong of an energy draining move as atom smasher and EMP. Also unlike EMP atom smasher and assimilation work with strikes so of course they would be blockable.

Also making something a little weaker so you could add something to help you will save your bacon especially with massacre. Most BH use near exact energy, and even a low level assimilation can wreak it or cause them to waste a turn restoring their energy.



robo90925 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 15:11:01)

@Mother1: It was a focus 5 Tm with tank enhance making the defence 30-32+5, also note defence matrix (defence matrix is my way of not getting completely destroyed) was 21. I used a dragon busterII, dage hunted boomstike, serpant striker. Malf was 35 tech, max reroute, low energy. 8 Deadly aim, 4 heal. So basically, a tanky battle mage. Assimilation is not a option (though i am waiting for a new mutating physical geal w/ 10 enhance coming out).

Even if a player gets rid of the BH's massacre. They are most likely still smoked. This is when strength builds wreak havoc.
Now you probably thinking, "hmm, you can defence matrix now!", well.... if they are a dumb BH, then yes! But, if they're not and did put something in EMP, I am gonna get destroyed!!! After my reroute gets enough energy to defence matrix, im going to already be half dead and they are most likely about to rage, which will most likely than to kill me!

Assimilation does do dmg, but it takes away too little energy to affect any other classes to be worth getting! I rather it be like atomic strike than do dmg.



Mother1 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 15:22:50)

@ robo

I use a level 5 focus TM myself and since you are a TM use your malf. It weakens the effect of smoke so it won't take away a much dex in battle. Also you need a staff to use the assimalation. Also with the way most BH play you the energy drain just before they are about to use massacre. It works since I have stopped massacre many times with this. Also the only reason most BH rage after they use massacre is because rage doesn't stack with it. Most BH can tell you by the time massacre is ready they 9/10 already have rage. Plus right after I stop their massacre they rage the same turn they would use massacre.

Also most BH smoke you the first turn and when they smoke you that is when you use defense martix. If they wait till the third to smoke you with it like some do, you already malfed them so you weakened their smoke so it will do less. Most if not all str builds have low defenses and that is the key to beating them. For a tech mage or CH you that malfuction and use energy attack to sync with your malf. Massacre is about to come up, if you are a hunter EMP them it is a granteed massacre stopper unless they have enough energy to massacre anyways. If you are TM assimalation is your key. It may not be 100% but if isn't blocked you stopped Massacre right there.

Also if they have energy boosters and use them if they used smoke the first turn and you drain their energy the 3rd turn. The final turn of smoke they are using their booster and smoke is gone when it is your next turn.



5rr5 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 15:37:13)

I've lost the count but I think this is the 294th thread about that BH's is OP.



robo90925 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 15:38:31)

@Mother1 I know all the combos already. I use malf, blah blah blah.I do want a staff, but it has to be a mutating staff physical with 10 enhanace to work with my current state.

Now i posted this combo ages ago.

I went first:
Malf > defence matrix (i been emped) > gun > aux > heal > dead/ nearly dead/ rage > dead

BH:
EMP > smoke> chairman's fury > massacre > rage gun > strike/aux > win!

Weaking smoke does nothing!!! I don't have defence matrix up so i am practically dead already!! I'll be half dead when i gain the energy to defence matrix again!!!

This is a combo that has been used by the "smart" BH. I cannot counter this, because if i use defence matrix first, it runs out when they massacre.



Mother1 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 15:53:52)

@ robo

I am just saying this because I have dealt with these smart BH as well as a focus 5 TM and while I don't always beat them I do win my fair share against them. But then again I take advantage of my ultimate move as sometimes if I need to. Also let's say they nerfed Massacre once again like everyone is screaming for because it is too powerful. Will it stop the strength abuse? No it won't. Str BH will still be on the rampage just with a weaker massacre.

It is the same thing in all these thread that I read.

"OMG (insert str build class here) is OP we need to nerf the moves they use to weaken them. Then the staff does this and guess what these same builds are still running a muck. They adapted and then still clobber the masses with their strength while the other builds that use the weaken moves suffer.

Let's take str BM for example. they used to two turn people a while ago with fireball and berserker which was OP. So the staff remove berserker with Bludgeon. Guess what? Still no chance and str BM were still running a muck. Next they nerfed Fireball which for a while weakened str BM until they learned to adapt once again. Now they save the weakened fireball for rage while still abusing strength with deadly aim, bludgeon, and strong attacks.

The point I am trying to make is that before the staff thinks about nerfing Massacre nerf what it works with which strength. This way all moves that work with strength will be powered down. Then if the move is too powerful the feel free to nerf it. Doing the second without the first only weakens every other build that uses the move while the build abusing it still towers over them.

But I have to ask are you varium or non varium?



robo90925 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/7/2012 16:07:29)

Yes i am a vaium.

Gear: dragon buster II, delta knight, dage's haunted boom stick & serpent blaster.

Look, there are also many some semi tank BHs with 28-30+7 and 34-36+3. With such high tech, smoke is enhanced, which means they deal more dmg. Since massacre isnt has affected from strength, massacre can still deal high dmg. They blood lust will easily keep them alive for longer and with such high defensive stats, they can survive for much longer. With Platinum pride, they can stall my rage and rage before me. With this build they also run EMP. Same combos as my post above. They are very strong.

I say the best way to deal with massacre is to make it not stake with blood lust. As i said waaaaay before, they heal way too much from blood lust. I seen Bh heal 20 hp from massacre, dealing over 60 dmg. Because of emp i cant defence matrix, plus emp is unblockable.

Maybe blood lust needs a nerf altogether??? Cause of the high strength used by BM and BH, they heal alot and alot of HP which helps because of their low defence.



rayniedays56 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/8/2012 0:23:54)

Hey robo.

If you need some skill points to put into assimilation on that build, I recommend lowering reroute from max (30%) to level 7 (27%).

The difference are quite minimal here.

Say you are hit with 30 damage.

With max, that is 9 EP regained.
With level 7, that is still 9 EP gained due to rounding upwards. Actually, maximum reroute isn't even recommended for the high hits either. Using an extreme example, getting hit with 100 damage would gain 30 EP. Level 7 is 27 EP gained. See my meaning?



Scyze -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/8/2012 2:38:15)

A lot of these are opinions. As 8x posted,
quote:

Over used =/= Over powerd

It necessary doesn't mean it is Over Powered.



rayniedays56 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/8/2012 3:13:43)

personally, I find most BH's balanced. Like I said before, the ONLY nerf needed is to the strength stat generally.

As I also stated, massacre MAY need to be nerfed. How, I do not know. Maybe slower scaling; maybe a different formula. However, I stress once more that STRENGTH is what is causing the classes to be powered up more.


The top two classes at the moment? The classes with bloodlust just for the simple idea that having high STRENGTH and MAX bloodlust makes a build great.



robo90925 -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/8/2012 5:11:36)

@raynie I already have that planned. Because currently i use a sword, i cant do that. At christmas i would buy the new staff and tweak my build.

Hmm.... guess what. I was versing a BH today in 1v1. I looked at her stats. Hmm... not fully enhance, not strength build; i think i can beat her. Well.... no. I go her down to 30 HP. Massacre me, healed 15 hp, i healed and then she raged! Another 10 hp now she is on 67 HP, im on 24. Killed me next turn!!! My Defence matrix was 21, strike on did 7 dmg on me. She still won and not even strength build!!!! Massacre itself is still OP, ecspecially with Blood Lust!!!

Also in 2v2. A CH with 13-16+35 used massacre and did 40 dmg on a 27-30+5-3. INSANE!!!

Merged posts. -- SMGS



KEzAx -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/9/2012 2:47:39)

smoke screen is the most op skill in the game



XxAl PachinOxX -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/9/2012 21:56:28)

i can win bh all the time lolz but yeah they r pain in tha ass same as 5focus bm



D.v.D. -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/9/2012 23:00:52)

Surprisingly, there are only EIGHT threads on BH in the Epicduel Balance !

And above .. Think of the kids..


Post #: 71 Not a str BH nor fully enhance does not imply you'll win.



Vegafire -> RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*> (11/13/2012 11:14:08)

Smoke Screen Becomes Useless if you can INTIMIDATE or Dex/ Def boost after or if you Can Malf a player Before they smoke you, same as smoking a player before they Malf you. Yes, Smokescreen, Bloodlust And Masacre are a deadly combination but it depends if you allow the player to use the Masacre, Take their Energy, Kill them before they kill you, Intimidate, Boost your defences! Make them regret becoming BH OR CH :P Im BM myself the most nerfed class since its creation and im still keeping up with all other classes you just need to optimize your build to make it most effective



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