Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (Full Version)

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Vypie -> Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (11/24/2012 21:12:47)

Hello, everyone!

I have been thinking about this for a long time, and I'm ready to share it!
We are Getting close to Omega, and if something were to change, now it's the right time to suggest stuff!

Something that could be interesting, original and fun for our builds!

The SPEED stat! Or haste, or quickness!

This stat would serve for two purposes:

-FIRST TURN:
The player with more SPEED would take his turn first, followed by the other players. Fastest to slowest! A Window would display the order of the player's turns, Top to bottom.
Players with same speed would have their turn assigned by luck, they would have 50% chance of either being first or behind the other player.
(Support would lose this bonus, and would of course be balanced, to not become underpowered.)

-Frequency of turn:
The real twist!
Players with more Speed would make turns with more frequency than Slower players. This means a player, over the course of the battle, could end up doing more turns (making more attacks) than others, and outpace them!

Lets see if i can explain:
Imagine a scenario, with two players, each one with a speed bar that fills each turn. One player is significantly quicker than the other.

First turn is decided by what player fills his bar first:
[||||||||||||||___]-Bounty Hunter
[|||||||||||_____]-Mercenary

Bounty Hunter Fills his bar First, because he has more Speed points, So he takes his turn! Notice how the Mercenary bar filled up a bit too:
[||||||||||||||||||]-Bounty Hunter (Attack!)
[||||||||||||||___]-Mercenary

Now, it's time for Mercenary to attack! The Bounty Hunter bar has already started growing for his next turn!
[|||||_________]-Bounty Hunter
[||||||||||||||||||]-Mercenary (Attack!)

Bounty hunter attacks, And between the first turn and the next, we can already see the Bounty hunter's bar getting further ahead of the Mercenary's.
[||||||||||||||||||]-Bounty Hunter (Attack!)
[|||||||||______]-Mercenary

See where this is going?
The Mercenary is ending up behind, and eventually the Bounty hunter will be able to take two turns in a row!

ABABABABAABABABABAABABAB.....etc


The Speed stat allows is an offensive stat that allows a player to play more turns than the opponent over the course of the battle.
During a Short battle, I don't think there should be enough turns for an extra turn (And being the one attacking first is already a good bonus!)
But in medium to long battles we should see one more turn, two... or EVENTUALLY three if the opponent is really sluggish!

Alone, this could sound overpowered, but you have to account for the sacrifice to other stats.
Cooldowns would come faster, as well as warm ups. Remember that energy costs for skills would stay the same. You may attack more, but maybe not so efficiently!
Some skills could even benefit from this stat, or increase it passively!

Well, this could now be considered a double edged sword... Not! Every other stat is! You sacrifice one strenght for the other. Its always up to the Epicduel team to balance it all out! :)
Im sure this can be a worthy stat!

____


Finally, I would like to say this feature can really work well. There are many turn based games that have made use of this, and it is really FUN!
"Final fantasy" is the one of my most memorable example. There are various others, of course. It Functions, and it is dynamic. :D

If you think you can help improving this idea, post it here!

[UPDATE Below!]



zameel -> RE: Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (11/24/2012 21:27:52)

time that right with a stun and you have at least 3 turns, in groups you could get your turn skipped over and over again, i can't support this, losing one turn is many times enough to defeat an opponent, twice or three times is just too much.



Metallico -> RE: Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (11/25/2012 0:50:27)

Did you play ninja saga or something like that? is the same system...Ok support would be really nerfed after this but would nerf some strenght builds

But i canīt support this, sorry



Vypie -> RE: Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (11/25/2012 11:14:58)

quote:

time that right with a stun and you have at least 3 turns, in groups you could get your turn skipped over and over again, i can't support this, losing one turn is many times enough to defeat an opponent, twice or three times is just too much.

A player who plays attacks more frequently would also sacrifice some of their damage. It's a different way of damage being dealt, and would have to be balanced in order to not become overpowered our underpowered.

quote:

Did you play ninja saga or something like that? is the same system...Ok support would be really nerfed after this but would nerf some strenght builds

Support would have to be buffed a bit to compensate for the loss of the first turn bonus.

___________

I think the problem we face here MOST, is how it could be balanced, because some battles are really short, and this idea would work so much better in fights with more turns.
It's always hard to balance a 4 turn battle, and we already have that problem with first turn difference, between offensive builds.

But if something is to be changed in the next phase, for example, we should not be limited to how it would work in these already unbalanced scenarios.
If an idea cannot be considered because of an unbalanced system, then the problem is not on the idea itself.


Please, try not to think now about overpowered/underpowered, just focus on the IDEA, not the numbers. I didn't give any exact information, only examples for better understanding. :)
what do you think of the CONCEPT?


_
_


[UPDATE] I would like to clarify on some of the upsides and downsides of this Speed stat:

Upsides:
-If faster, a player gets the first turn;
-More turns, and may grant eventually two turns in a row (depends on speed diference);
-Faster cooldowns and warm ups;
-Player may get the chance to attack one 4th turn on a 3-turn Debuffed opponent, benefiting from it;
-If a fast player is Debuffed, The Debuff will "die" sooner.

Downsides:
-A player investing stats on this will be, of course, sacrificing power or defenses;
-A faster player may end up wasting 1 turn of a defensive Buff (when attacking twice in a row), because the buff is still consumed on each played turn;
-A Defensively buffed opponent will have it's Buff absorbing more hits than usual. While you are attacking twice, his Buff still stands for that duration!
-Poison ticks faster on yourself!


I think that's all I can remember right now. :)



ReconnaisX -> RE: Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (11/25/2012 20:46:55)

It's really well thought out but no.
Support nicely covers first strike, and having your turn skipped is a big no-no and really messes up any strategy you might have.



Vypie -> RE: Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (11/25/2012 22:17:25)

Thanks :)

Well.. to tell the truth, that was part of the idea! Currently every tactic is very much set in stone and the enemy is predictable.
We need new things to shake the battle a little, to make it dynamic and not the same again and again.

Real strategy is the one Thought during the heat of the battle, not a premeditated one. The strategy in a battle accounts for when you will play, how many turns for cooldowns, etc.
With a bar displaying the order of next 10 player turns, you could tell when the enemy would strike a double turn.

If one's strategy cant function because the enemy behaves differently... then how will it work against original/ unique builds?


In OMEGA, I'm sure builds are going to be changed or tweaked, skills will be more unique and things like that...
Much may change, so... why not? ;)



SCAR -> RE: Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (11/25/2012 22:29:08)

Supported. This would balance out the "140 Health Builds".



arthropleura -> RE: Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (11/25/2012 22:38:23)

Ooh a whole new side to the game, i support because support does nothing to first strike unless you have 130 something :/



ReconnaisX -> RE: Haste/Speed Stat (please read fully!) (11/26/2012 0:42:46)

Vypie, that's what Battle Mechanics are for.



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