RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (Full Version)

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MirageD -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 7:09:27)

quote:

In AQW, weapons are purchased as art. However, in this system, the weapons would be able to get their stats customized. However, they never mentioned there wouldn't be a limit for these stat changes, so your choice of weapons may still affect the stats of it.


in AQW you can enhance the stats of any weapon, cape and helm depending upon your level and which "type" of enhancement you want....warrior, mage, bounty hunter, paladian, etc (i can't remember all the base classes)...but they are a fixed set of stat numbers

~mira




ninja.fighter -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 7:54:43)

well we just have to wait and see what they got packed for us this christmas




JariTheMighty -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 8:21:27)

Advantage does not always mean having more powerful items than somebody else.

If we were to go with Xendran's idea of all items being at the same power level (per level), paying players would still have the advantage. No, they wouldn't have more powerful gear. But instead they'd have an easier access to new items and upgrading them, without having to farm hours and hours to collect enough credits to buy all new stuff plus upgrade it to a form that fits your build and playing style the best.




Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 8:50:45)

I think I might buy a few Physical Primaries and Energy ranged weapons when this phase releases.




MirageD -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 8:53:58)

i hope the developers realize that alot of us left AQW because it became a boring dress-up game....strategic play had nothing do to do with anything.....i just hope we aren't advancing towards that path :(

~mira




Xendran -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 9:25:40)

quote:

If we were to go with Xendran's idea of all items being at the same power level (per level), paying players would still have the advantage. No, they wouldn't have more powerful gear. But instead they'd have an easier access to new items and upgrading them, without having to farm hours and hours to collect enough credits to buy all new stuff plus upgrade it to a form that fits your build and playing style the best.


Which is EXACTLY the kind of thing that is a good idea. People pay for convenience. They only have the advantage of time, not the advantage of stats or power.

This is the same concept with boosters. (Speaking of which, we should have a booster that increases the chances of winning a prize in the arcade.)

A very good example of how this works well: People that are busy usually work a lot, and people that play a ton usually either don't have a job or are working part time.
The player who is busy with a job will use varium to still experience the endgame gear and items and quests, without needing to worry about spending a ton of hours. This is one of the benefits of working. This does however limit their participation on leaderboards due to other obligations quite often.

The player with no/part-time job will often have less money available, but more time, so they are able to sink more time into getting credits and whatnot. The part-time worker is likely to use a mix of credits and varium.

@MirageD: I agree, im against full stat distribution being available.
I personally believe that items should all have "base stats". These base stats would be lower than the initial stats, to allow for some customization without actually increasing the level, but you cannot remove them other than by delevelling a weapon, in which case the stats are just automatically added back when you level.

An example: Let's say frostbane (+8 +8 +8) has base stats of +6 +6 +6. This means if you modify it, you can't lower these 3 stats below these points. This way you can customize weapons, but they retain their specific type (Single stat, hybrid, tribrid, all-around). This also gives a real gameplay incentive to buy more weapons, and not just for the artwork.

So you could, for example, modify your tribrid frostbane from 8, 8, 8 to 12, 6, 6 without increasing the level, if you want to make it more strength oriented, but the base stats still keep a portion of the initial intent: A tribrid Str/Dex/Tech weapon.

However this comes with a problem: People will buy low level weapons and just upgrade those instead to bypass base stats. There would have to be either some sort of auto-scaling, or the team would have to go and manually input numbers for every weapon at a large number of levels (Which is good in theory, but way too time consuming)




MrBones -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 9:34:21)

RABBLEFROTH

I just wish you guys will be more specific as to what will happen to over 500$ worth of enhancements on my gear ?

I am very concerned.




Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 9:36:38)

I propose that the base stats be fully customizable, however, any strange stats have a weight of 2 stat points when customizing.

What are strange stats? A strange stat is a stat allocation that is different from the base stats. Using dat Frost Bane as a sample, 0-8-8-8. If I want to increase the Support stat to 9, I will require 2 of the other base stats' points. Example: 0-7-7-9. Not allowed: 0-7-8-9.

The base stat setup therefore grants the most number of base stats being indifferent and as it uses no strange stats.




no me.. no party -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 9:41:24)

2 many things can ruin this game.if they have ideas they should use those in the folowing years
we cant upgrade forever,
we need to have fun also not only to spend cash 4 amazing items, i think he should have more fun !!!!! at the end tht why i play this game 4 fun and 4 the virtual buddy's!!!!!!




Xendran -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 10:15:10)

Depressed Void: While that's an interesting idea, i feel that would both be very rarely used, and somewhat defeats the purpose of base stats, which is to make players use more than just 1 weapon all the time.




friend18 -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 10:44:22)

quote:

i hope the developers realize that alot of us left AQW because it became a boring dress-up game....strategic play had nothing do to do with anything.....i just hope we aren't advancing towards that path :(

~mira


This. I purchased varium promos for the item's stats.




Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 11:08:05)

Xendran,

Which is why altering the base stats to preference is not as productive as different items.



That is neat, I would be interested in zero-randomization specials like an Armor that reduces incoming damage by 5%.





Vypie -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 11:43:30)

They said they will introduce many new special abilities for items, and maybe varium weapons/armour and promos will have stronger/better specials.




Xendran -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 11:48:17)

Void: Because it negates the need for other items, and your system ends up with people losing stat points, so they'd just go buy another weapon anyway instead of vasting var changing one that they can use for something else..

quote:

They said they will introduce many new special abilities for items, and maybe varium weapons/armour and promos will have stronger/better specials.


Massively pay2win




Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 11:52:39)

^

Yes, but if we say... customize at no loss/ no gain, then an item with these "freestyle" properties replaces the need of owning other items the same way my suggested "freestyle" property limits only 1 item to be able to excel in it's given base stats.




Xendran -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 11:56:53)

That's why i suggested base stats.. to limit customization while still allowing a certain amount of freedom




ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 13:20:03)

YES! ALL I EVER WANTED!


11/10 staff good job.





legion of souls -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 14:18:13)

As said before i just realized that with this feature, Epicduel has just been AQW-ified.
I dont want this to be like AQW.
This is a different game




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 14:33:47)

I doubt this will turn ED into AQW as our stats make a huge difference and our class systems are way different. And as I recall, players hated when weapons got released that outdated their old gear. Now we don't have to worry about that anymore




RabbleFroth -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 14:37:31)

quote:

It says we cannot put all of our modifiers into one stat but what if you are using a weapon, such as Caden's Wraith, that only give one stat modifiers?
Will we have to put stats into Dex/Suport/STR before we can add more tech?

Weapons will not come preset with stats any more, so the stats on Caden's Wrath can be set up however you'd like.

quote:

..will I be able to ditch all Support and Tech and put into Str and Dex OR will there be minimum which must always be met, so with this example minimum could be +5 Tech, +3 Dex and +2 Support

We have no plans to have any limitations such as this. The idea is that you can use any weapon for any build that you want.

quote:

Do we have to purchase the stats we already have on weapons again?

No all of your weapons' stats will be set to roughly what they are now, but mapped to the correct amount of stats based on the new system.

quote:

Would it be possible to also change the type of weapon it is? For example, changing my physical primary and making it an energy weapon.

Since the look of an item currently "tells" you what type it is (energy weapons tend to have energy-looking blades to them) this will be pre-determined on the item and cannot be changed. We want you to be able to know the type of damage just from looking at the weapon in most cases.

quote:

Im not sure if some1 asked this but, does this mean, you buy weapons in omega without any stats and damage?? you gotta purchase them, depending on ur lvl? or you get with stats and u can either change them or upgrade more on it?

When you buy a weapon you will have the choice to buy it without any stats for a cheaper cost and upgrade them later, but most of the time you will just buy the gear with all the stats available for your level.




There are also a couple of topics that several people have brought up that I want to address.

Enhancements
We will be announcing our plans for enhancements soon (probably next week), but be assured that we are absolutely keeping in mind those that have used the system. From Titan: LINK

Items becoming just art and removing strategy
Strategy in the game is not tied to which weapon you use, it relates to the stats you decide to end up with. Strategy will not be removed in any way by this change, and now that items are more customizable than before, it should increase the number of strategies available. In the current system, you have to cater your strategy to the gear because of the built-in nature of stats and stat requirements -- instead of just getting whatever weapon you want, and then catering it to they way you want to play.

In addition, we will continue to have items with unique abilities on them, the breadth of which will be greatly expanded in Omega. These will present completely unique items that are different from all the others. More details on this in the future.

Power from Varium
One goal of Omega *is* to diminish the power gap between F2P and Varium players. We want to shift the gains given by Varium from granting overt power to giving new options and convenience. It can also grant things like cosmetic options, etc that we haven't explored as much in the past. We also don't want Varium players to feel a constant obligation to upgrade just to keep up. Instead, we want you to be excited about the loads of new options that you can play around with.

What this means is that Varium should get you what you want faster, and should grant additional awesome options, strategies, and builds that otherwise might not be available, while still providing awesome stuff to F2P players that you might have to work a little for. In the end, everyone should be better off with these changes.



Will keep popping in to answer questions. For now, back to work!




Xendran -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 14:56:46)

quote:

Power from Varium
One goal of Omega *is* to diminish the power gap between F2P and Varium players. We want to shift the gains given by Varium from granting overt power to giving new options and convenience. It can also grant things like cosmetic options, etc that we haven't explored as much in the past. We also don't want Varium players to feel a constant obligation to upgrade just to keep up. Instead, we want you to be excited about the loads of new options that you can play around with.

What this means is that Varium should get you what you want faster, and should grant additional awesome options, strategies, and builds that otherwise might not be available, while still providing awesome stuff to F2P players that you might have to work a little for. In the end, everyone should be better off with these changes.



YES YES YES YES YES.

This is EXACTLY the approach i like to see. (And th is is coming from a heavy varium user)
Varium players having the options of sidegrade skills and abilities that allow new, unique and different strategies, but not overpowered ones.

My hat goes off to you, ED team, it took two pretty bad phases (delta and gamma were really shaky) but Omega looks like it's goign to be the best that ED has ever seen.
Now all it comes down to is your stat rebalance. If it turns out well, i'm going to buy a varium pack day 1 of omega. That's something i havent done in a loooooong time.

Now all that's left is for me to attempt to wipe gamma and delta from my memory @_@




Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 15:01:29)

If anyone asks, varium as an element of time is strongly related to being an element of mass or as some call "power". The current, or past varium allowed a player to pay money to gain a "power" or mass advantage when it matters with the statistical numbers on items. Such as, a freemium item having 20 stats while a premium item has 30 stats. Well, so far this is OK, you pay an amount of money and gain an advantage over the normal horizon. It matters in PVP. No matter how much time a F2P player uses in EpicDuel, they will never be a fair statistical comparison to some new P2P player that spent $50 and already has 1.1, 1.5, 2, 10 times as many stat points. Why is this fallible? PVP is a determination, in EpicDuel's case, a means of overwhelming an opponent by the actions done in battle. If 2 equally loyal players are differenced by how much one of the players spent on EpicDuel... does competing even matter?

Varium is still an element of time that is still your advantage. Imagine having to spend 24 hours in total in REAL LIFE on a computer, playing EpicDuel to get the top Primary weapon.

While you are grinding to get that item, and let us assume that you are a F2P player- while you are grinding to get that item, you battle 240 P2P players that bought that same item using varium so they did not have to go 24 hours as you did. Because it is the best weapon, they beat you every time!

That is why you should still buy varium, else you will be short-handed in the rat race. Varium still gives that large advantage, without having bias towards PVP strategy.




Vypie -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 15:03:54)

Thanks Rabble! :)

About the new enhancement system, I imagine a permanent enhancement upgrade, in which you pay more creds/varium for each extra stat.
Players who have spent on current enhancements could have this bonus partially upgraded.




Drianx -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 15:25:07)

Well, what about the people who bought items only for stats?
Someone once said "I would buy and proudly wear the ugliest stick if it has good stats".
Most - if not all - varium people have upgraded ONLY for stats, regardless of weapons look. Some even have like 10 varium armors, and paid for them in order to stay competitive. Now they will end up with 10 similar armors, and many of them are really ugly, apart from Founders.

I'm afraid the change from "0% looks 100% stats" to "100% looks 0% stats" will generate quite a commotion.

Somehow old varium items should retain a functional value, beyond looks. For achieving this I think all old varium weapons and armors should be added some special abilities.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Omega Design Notes - November 29, 2012 (11/30/2012 15:42:04)

I like that Varium is finally taking the full "you are buying time" effect which we have been easing into since Varium and credit options where first introduced.

Now what scares me, and probably whitetiger as well*, is this

quote:

Weapons will not come preset with stats any more, so the stats on Caden's Wrath can be set up however you'd like.

It is pretty much you are buying a number of stats and a damage attached to an .swf, I don't really see a point in switching out my Spirit Pike for Caden's Wrath if that is how it will end up. Of course if Caden's Wrath has more possible stat modifiers than Spirit Pike I can shell out some credits to get my old staff back



*our reasons are completely different his is editing the entire wiki




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