RE: Varium's role? (Full Version)

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goldslayer1 -> RE: Varium's role? (12/2/2012 20:16:38)

@OWA
well im not saying its too slow.
but i would rather do 15 NPCs in about 10-15 minutes than do 15 public battles in 20+ minutes



Thylek Shran -> RE: Varium's role? (12/2/2012 21:57:40)

quote:


Well, me and mother1 were discussing this ingame and I seriously believe that these new items are too much, I as well as many other players know that the point of these new credit items was to make free players be able to par with barium players however in the past 2 months they have released 3 non barium armies and roughly 20 new level 35 non varium items that beat some of the older varium items. This is IMO uncalled for, along with the suggestion shop release and the rabblefroth shopnon varium players have gotten so many items. This seriously needs to STOP, with these new items what's the point in buying varium? They not only equal but BEAT varium items.

So what are your opinions?

Those powerfull credit items have a price: The players must invest way more time into the
game than players that buy varium items for real money. Basically the new powerfull credit
items cost the same like old items with 4 enhancements. So if you enhance them further
you will safe some credits compared to old items with more than 4 enhancements.

I think the old business concept "pay to win" was never a good idea. Its unfair and prevented
to bind more players to the game. The game community (number of active players) even got
decreased over the years because other games on the market obviously was more attractive.
Some of them are from AE itself. Alot players got frustrated and stopped playing ED.
Those was potential customers. I myself will never pay for unfairness and a bad concept thats
why I dont had spent a single cent for this game.

Its good to see that AE is now chaning its business policy for ED. I would like to see "pay to win"
gone. Dont forget that its mostly a PVP game. A duel should get decided by strategy and tactics
and not by money.



Mother1 -> RE: Varium's role? (12/2/2012 22:40:57)

@ thylek shran

I remember the staff sometime ago saying that there had to be some sort of gap in the game for players to want to even buy varium since it is there only source of income and if they removed this gap they feared they wouldn't get sells. Plus while I am glad that they are easing the gap between free to play and pay some old pay to play players are starting to feel what free to play players felt for I don't know how long since now a non varium item at the same level as a varium item is now more powerful then the item that they had to pay for with real money.

I doubt any non varium would ever feel that kind of frustration since they never spent a dime into the game or farmed points to get varium, but anyone who has paid or farmed points for varium might feel this.

Also on another note I remember some paying players left the game when this new wave of non varium items that matched varium items came along. While some are happy this is happening others aren't because they feel they supported the game only for them to give the same people who didn't support it (money wise) the same power they got by spending.



Vypie -> RE: Varium's role? (12/2/2012 22:46:54)

Even Varium players SHOULD want to fight players of the same power as themselves!
In my opinion, having a clear advantage over an opponent who is weaker because he doesn't pay, takes the challenge out of the game.

For me, challenging is fun! Nothing is more rewarding than beating an opponent with your own skill, because YOU DID IT, not your money, or stats. YOU!

I like to play to be the best I can! Fighting against players with the same resources as I, and defeating them, is MUCH better than winning because the opponent was weaker. That's like fighting a small child...

I would not buy varium to decrease the challenge of this game. Varium gave us an advantage in build making options and build creativity. It made possible different gameplay and tactics. Non-variums were limited. I'm not even talking about extra damage/stats here. Just gameplay options.


Now, everyone will be able to use their creativity to the fullest. Now we will see true skill, true strategy and no more limitation between players.
The game will be much more balanced and FUN. :)
I will put myself to the true test! Beating variums without varium stuff or enhancements was fun, but now I'm looking forward to see the real stuff players are made of!

The usefullness of varium is still here, and it helps a lot without making the game unfair. Players wont feel the need to buy every new item to be able to keep up. It's much more "healthy" this way.
Im sure the game itself will grow and bring many new players, while still keeping those who were struggling with the gap.



legion of souls -> RE: Varium's role? (12/2/2012 23:11:07)

Delta, despite bringing in some features, really unbalanced this game.
I agree that Credit items should not quickly overpower Varium items.



Thylek Shran -> RE: Varium's role? (12/3/2012 8:39:50)

@Mother1
quote:

I doubt any non varium would ever feel that kind of frustration since they never spent a dime into the game or farmed points to get varium, but anyone who has paid or farmed points for varium might feel this.

How can you farm varium ? Doing surveys ?

I know how it would feel and thats another reason why I donīt had paid. I had noticed
so many players whining about it. Varium items was just to deflational which means
that they lost their worth pretty fast. But it was necessary to create a steady income for AE.
The other possibility would had been a montly fee. Micropayment is just the best price
model atm and good for the players and the company. Now there are so many things that
could be bought with varium so that varium items no longer have to be that powerfull like
in the past.

quote:


Also on another note I remember some paying players left the game when this new wave of non varium items that matched varium items came along. While some are happy this is happening others aren't because they feel they supported the game only for them to give the same people who didn't support it (money wise) the same power they got by spending.

Well you canīt make everybody happy at the same time. Sometimes people tend to only
see the negative effects. Instead of seeing the win for all players they feel cheated because
they had paid money to be powerfull and get more wins than others. I really think that those
players (customers) are not angry because they supported the game because the support
had took effect and cannot be redone. Humans are egoistic by nature and often want to be
better than other humans. Its all about domination to prevent to get dominated.




@Vypie
quote:


For me, challenging is fun! Nothing is more rewarding than beating an opponent with your own skill, because YOU DID IT, not your money, or stats. YOU!

I think the same. When I lost a player challenge I try to duel this player again and again until I win.
But meeting an opponent where your chances to win are minimal and mostly related to luck is just
no fun to me. As example a non varium player with low enhancements vs a fully enhanced varium player.
This is one if the reasons why I prefer to farm NPCs over random PVP.

quote:

Im sure the game itself will grow and bring many new players, while still keeping those who were struggling with the gap.

Again I agree with you. It should be a win win situation for both the players and AE / The ED Team.



The Astral Fury -> RE: Varium's role? (12/3/2012 16:29:35)

Not to be mean, but varuim's should have practically a 90% chance of wining. I know this sounds mean, but a person who pays hundreds of dollars and loses to someone who has spent none seems very unfair. We pay so we have a HUGE not little, but huge chance to win, if we spend money on a game then it's only fair that will will always practically beat the ones who don't. We spend money so we can become better then the ones who don't and to maximize are build potenial and become better. If we give varuims players fair chances then they will have much better chances to beat us and that's unfair to the people who spent hundreds if not thousands on this game. You pay to play or win and whats the point of buying varuim when free players have just as good as a chance to beat you.

This sounds mean, but it's true.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Varium's role? (12/3/2012 16:46:25)

@above: I don't suggest saying your opinion is true, especially since everyone has their own opinions and they can controverse with each other.
Varium helping someone win definitely gives them a boost, but I find it VERY unfair in itself that totally unstrategic people who don't even know how to play the game well wins against an extremely well-developed credit player with an 80-90% chance or even more! You have to consider that credit players can't get varium for their own purposes, whether it be they're children whose parents don't support paying on computer gaming, or whatever. My opinion on varium's role is to give varium players ease of access to many features of the game that would otherwise be quite taskful. Plus, varium players already gain access to weapons with special abilities (such as promos), cool-looking bikes, AND a very large variety of robots. I don't like the idea of all that people are adopting the mentality "You buy, you win!" Fights should really be majority actual strategy and only a small portion of actual varium advantage (Possibly 70% and 30%?). To be blunt, I totally agree with Vypie. ED should be a game about strategy, skill, creativity, and ideas! Only about a quarter or so of it should be whether or not someone wins because of paying money for an in-game advantage.



The Astral Fury -> RE: Varium's role? (12/3/2012 16:51:43)

It wasn't really saying the opnion was true, but I was saying more varuim players should have a bigger chance at wining because they pay and you can't deny that they must have a rather large advantage.



rej -> RE: Varium's role? (12/3/2012 17:01:04)

I actually agree with you, King, though I wish you would have gone back and fixed your grammar errors.
Since Varium is, for whatever reason, much more expensive that game coins in other AE games, it should thus have a much larger role than the coins in other AE games. Thanks to the recent massive improvements to non-paying player items, this is no longer the case.

If you have ever played Mechquest, you might have noticed that the most powerful tier of items is usually Nova Gems (their version of varium) thus giving paying players an advantage. On top of this, these Nova Gem items are usually much less expensive than Varium items. And finally, while the largest Varium Pack grants you 10,000 Varium, the largest NG package gives you a whopping 20,000 Nova Gems.

Hopefully my analogy did not confuse you too much (It really shouldn't). And hopefully my dear friend Pivotal doesn't try to troll my opinion too much this time.



monkeymayhem2 -> RE: Varium's role? (12/3/2012 17:57:15)

Having spent money on this game shouldn't automatically give you the advantage or guarantee you the win, winning in the game still requires strategy and skill. I can understand where @goldslayer1 is coming from by saying that Varium items are becoming underpowered, but the fact of the matter is that ED is still about having the superior strategy or build. Even someone who has bought Varium can lose to a F2P player if their strategy or build is better. Introducing these new more powerful free weapons does allow F2P players the opportunity to create more powerful builds but they still need to farm the credits which takes time and commitment to the game. Lazy players like me who can't be bothered or don't have the time to farm credits can still build strong characters by buying Varium, but we also get the bonus of having limited/rare items which become more desired over time. But still, the idea of there being as many F2P players having fully upgraded free items as there are Varium users who use Varium to enhance items is unlikey, so buying Varium still has its attractiveness to me..



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Varium's role? (12/3/2012 17:58:10)

@Dragonman111 Varium is not giving that 90% advantage and only took on that huge advantage in Gamma and then dropped again in Delta. In Beta when Varium was first added a F2P could beat a Founder with full Beta gear. Then Gamma added enhancements, for Varium only, and they gap increased by an insane amount only for Credit enhancements to lessen that amount by a small amount and class change had the same effect on the gap. Now that Omega is coming Varium is taking on it's proper role of buying time. So the advantage is a different role in that a varium user can drop $5 on the game to level up their gear according to the DN and on the other hand it would take 157 fights to do the same. 157 fights at 4 rounds a fight is 628 rounds and that is 18840 seconds of just max round time and that is 314 minutes which is just over 5 hours.

So according to the DN example one hour of game play is equal to $1. That is pretty cheap time exchange if I do say so myself



Vegafire -> RE: Varium's role? (12/3/2012 18:25:33)

Yeah im at the same standard as non varium players with 30-40,000 wins and i have only just broke the 5,000 win mark, thats about 100 hours of non stop battling, and for credit players could be thousands of hours due to them not being able to win as much against varium players.

Varium was never intended to overpower varium players only to give them the time advantage and Promotional items which credit players could not obtain, it went this way for some odd reason and with this new update they hope to correct their mistake diminishing the gap between varium and non varium players apart from where TIME is concerned and promotional's like bots ect will still be available to varium players aswell as promo item abilities.

All in All we still have a time and Item specific skill advantage over Non varium players aswell as EXP boosters once the level cap is raised



kingpowerlord -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 11:51:56)

@rej
pretty hard to type on a nintendo ds you know, lol

to all those people who think I'm being selfish and greedy, i say you don't know a thing your talking about. I've probably invested 200 pounds (260 dollars) into this game and i want my moneys worth, if all that's gonna change because the things i bought with 200 pounds worth of money can be farmed within a day then something is going wrong here, the exchange rate is too low. for example, the new auxiliary can be bought for 35k credits or 1k varium, so that is basically saying 1 varium is equal to 35 credits. there is no way that anyone can argue with that, just look at the figures.



ND Mallet -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 12:49:06)

I've spent over 500$ on this game for just one account and I've had more fun on an account where I've bought only 50$ to get enhancements for my weapons rather than farm for the credit versions. I'd rather get a challenge in a game than have everything handed to me on a silver platter because I had some cash.



Vypie -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 15:50:56)

Everyone who bought varium wants it to be worth the money. That's fine, and understandable.

I'm gonna try to explain some of my thoughts here:
If there were no changes, your varium items would still get outdated eventually, right? Paying varium has given you an advantage, which is not permanent. Eventually you would have to pay again to keep up... But you got what you had paid for! A temporary advantage in power, see?

If you then stop buying varium, you don't maintain any perks from being a buyer... am I correct?
This means that with all these incoming changes, your varium was not gone to waste. It was used for it's purpose. This change will not make you lose anything, as you benefited and were benefiting from it's perks already.

The game is changing for everyone, and to those who want their varium Stronger in power... you will have to adapt.
You wont have to buy every single new weapon just because it is stronger. You wont have to expend so much money on +2 extra stats. Yet, some players still want to have power perks, just because they can afford varium anytime they want.
In the end, people are buying varium, in order for the game to evolve. You are supporting the game, and now, from that support, OMEGA is happening! Give the game a chance to become better and more fun. (A better game, and without having to pay so much? That should be no reason to feel bad!)


Now, during omega, show what you really are made of. ;)



goldslayer1 -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 17:19:51)

@vypie
varium in this game is permanent. the currency is permanent.
its not a membership type of thing that lasts u a set amount of time.
items only get outdated if u keep lvling up.

remember the old war kills boards?
there was a player with over 1.1 million war kills. that was suppose to be permanent.
u know what happened? war kills was removed, and that player who spent thousands of dollars (by my calculation, about $4000 dollars) and got very little compensation.

im not saying there should be a full refund, but there should be something for the massive spenders who kept this game alive (myself included)



rej -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 18:10:09)

quote:

I'm gonna try to explain some of my thoughts here:
If there were no changes, your varium items would still get outdated eventually, right? Paying varium has given you an advantage, which is not permanent. Eventually you would have to pay again to keep up... But you got what you had paid for! A temporary advantage in power, see?

If you then stop buying varium, you don't maintain any perks from being a buyer... am I correct?
This means that with all these incoming changes, your varium was not gone to waste. It was used for it's purpose. This change will not make you lose anything, as you benefited and were benefiting from it's perks already.


I can see your point, but what you don't understand is that many of us bought enhancements with the assumption that the system we were buying into would remain. You make it sound like we made some unwise investing decisions, when the problem is more equivalent to investing in stocks on the stock market, only to have the stock market itself removed.



Vypie -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 19:47:30)

@goldslayer1
I said that it was not "permanent" in terms of items becoming outdated (which can happen many times during the level cap). If you don't buy varium anymore, you eventually end up as behind as other credit players.
For example, a varium weapon that was better for a while, but now that it is outdated and new credit weapons are just as strong, that doesn't mean you should get a refund because it ceased to be better. You got the usefulness out of it until new varium or credit weapons appeared.
OMEGA is just like that! Think of it as new better weapons that outdate your current ones. It's the same, in a different way.

And there is enough refund in receiving varium when selling the weapon. :)

(Oh, I'm sure they have said they would rework the faction war kills/cannons! Not sure what will happen about refunds/conversions, though)



@rej
Oh, not at all! And I'm sorry if I sounded a bit rude, that was not my intention! :)
When you made the decision of using varium to buy an item, you knew that at some point it would get outdated, right? Things would change eventually, anyways.

You got your enhancements bought with varium, so you became more powerfull and benefited from them. The good thing is, they wont go to waste! They will convert to the new enhancement system, so don't worry about having spent varium on them before omega! :D

_____


Technically, Omega brings us new stuff, outdating the old. Just like new items coming out for a new level cap.
But anyways, this is just my point of view! ;)



goldslayer1 -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 19:54:45)

@vypie
except now in omega, no weapon will ever be outdated.
so ur point is invalid here.

i myself have spent $1k in ED
if theres no refund for the enhancements, (even as a very patient person i am) my patience will most likely run out when it comes to spending. im sure others will get tired of it. too many things have already changed after people spent money on it. and i dont think thats fair for the people keeping this game running.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 20:34:55)

Think of it this way, and this is a real example mind you, you go to a restaurant every week and buy the same item every time and then suddenly that item is off the menu. You have two options eat your last meal and then leave or find a different item on the menu to eat.

Well war kills and enhancements are those menu items that are removed* so you have two options in front of you quit or find something else to spend your money on. Correct me if I am wrong but not many people quit just because war kills were removed sure they got upset but no one made an outraged statement and left the game, once more this is two my knowledge. Also many see enhancements as a source of imbalance so getting rid of them is a good thing.


*we are assuming that enhancements are leaving but it was never said as of yet what will happen to them



Vypie -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 20:53:42)

quote:

@vypie
except now in omega, no weapon will ever be outdated.
so ur point is invalid here.

If you think about it, from omega and beyond, there will be no outdates. But From Delta to Omega, there is this overhaul that will make Varium weapons "outdated", in terms of power.

It's just like when a new credit weapon catches up with your old varium weapon (thus becoming outdated). But now, in Omega, there wont be any new 'better' varium weapons to buy anymore, keeping the credit/varium weapons all at the same level!

Do you see my point now?



Mother1 -> RE: Varium's role? (12/4/2012 23:41:58)

@ vypie

There will still be promos and if I am correct weapons with special abilities. That alone will be enough to give the paying players a SLIGHT edge but not enough to make non variums their punching bags.

Plus believe it or not even if they take away power from varium, there will still be that slight gap in items special wise. I remember when I first brought varium it was because I was sick and tired of being the punching bags of those OP cyber hunters as well as other fully powered varium players. In fact I think that was the main reason why almost all people who could buy or earn varium did it for so they wouldn't be the punching bags anymore.




legion of souls -> RE: Varium's role? (12/5/2012 0:08:48)

Well, personally i probably wont be buying promos anymore, but instead, upgrading my current gear. (especially my beautiful Beast Rider EM)



ninja.fighter -> RE: Varium's role? (12/5/2012 2:42:29)

varium well i have no problem with it but just want the dev's to remove the enhacement system by presenting the new stats system that's all



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