Juggernaut Mode Unfair (Full Version)

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Fortitudo -> Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 12:59:08)

Is juggernaut mode going to be revamped for omega? I surely hope so, because right now it is very unfair for me and others at level 26. Ever since I've hit level 26 I've fought more juggernaut battles when I press the 2v2 button then actual 2v2 battles. It is very frustrating, because each time it is verse a level 35 varium player who is practically invincible.

I propose four solutions to this balance problem.
#1 Reduce the level gap between the juggernaut players. It should be around 5 levels, the same as it is for NPCs.
#2 Match varium players with only other varium players.
#3 Create an algorithm to create a “gear score” of sorts that make the gap based on gear score and not level. Perhaps rarity could be used.
#4 Remove juggernaut battles from the 2v2 button. Make a separate button for players who actually want to face juggernauts.



the final hour -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 13:08:31)

I agree that juggernaut is unfair HOWEVER can u imagine a juggernaut vs 2 full var level 30s the juggernaut would be hard pressed to win so that idea aint supported ontop of that two smart 30 non vars cn defeat a juggernaut . i fully agree that njuggernaut is completely unfair on the challengers as it stands but lets even it out . not just make it so its completely unfair on the jugger



Renegade Reaper -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 13:11:10)

no support for number 4, this wil be EXTREMELY unfair to the juggernauts themselves, as if this was implemented,
players could just make juggernaut killer builds.

no support for number 3, with omega coming soon (hahaha) VERY low level players can have rarity scores.
so if you want jugg mode to become even easier for juggs, support this.

no support for number 2, this will be unfair to juggernauts. it is near impossible to fight 2 variums at the
same time.

not sure about number 1, the level gap is 5-8 i think right now. maybe a little support.

and no offense, but you should be a jugg first before proposing solutions to it. you have no concept as
a lvl 26 player of what jugg mode really entails. you only see one side of the battles.

EDIT: @below have you ever tried being a juggernaut? if you had, you would understand.




Fortitudo -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 13:15:25)

@the final hour

That's why I like my idea of a "gear score". Simply put, we need better matchmaking for juggernaut battles. As it stands, it seems if no one is around for 2v2 (which they usually aren't at lvl 26) then players will be matched at extreme odds with juggernaut players. I propose that these matches not be made, unless the proper gear score ratio has been achieved. This gear score needs to be based on more items than just level. I suggest a gear score be based on level, win/loss ratio, item rarity, and stats. The proper algorithm using these parameters could make matchmaking a whole lot more fair than simply using levels.

Edit: @ Renegarde Reaper
So in your response to my second suggestion, you are saying it is unfair for a varium player to have to fight other varium players. Just think about that for a moment would you. -.-

As to your final statement, all I need to see is the one sidedness of the juggernaut battle to know it is not fun. Every juggernaut I've faced has an extremely high w/l ratio, so you can't tell me that a lvl 35 var player is having problems crushing 2 lvl 26 players var or no. If anything I don't know how these juggernauts can have fun if they always have an unfair advantage. Personally I really don't want to go 2v2 anymore, because more likely than not I will be facing a juggernaut battle instead of the 2v2 mode I enjoy. I don't like playing 1v1, and even if npcs were going to give exp in omega, I would find it too boring to grind them. In short, I think I am not alone who gets fed up with juggernaut battles that are unfair. Oh, and see my response to the final hour about the gear score. Rarity would only be one factor in the matchmaking algorithm. It was only given as an example.

Oh and btw, the level gap is nearly always lvl 26 + lvl 26-30 vs lvl 35. Never have I seen it come close to being 5.

Posts merge. Please don't double post. ~Mecha



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 13:25:38)

quote:

#1 Reduce the level gap between the juggernaut players. It should be around 5 levels, the same as it is for NPCs.


Not supported. Have you ever played 2 vs 2 and you partner get's disconnected against you when they are fully powered players? This is what it would be like even with the 5 level gap, and plus it would be a complete slaughter for the jug.

quote:

#2 Match varium players with only other varium players.


Not supported as well. You may have not know this, but they lower the cap gap because of this. 2 fully power varium players were kick Jugs left and right whenever they paired up and you want to make this happen 100% of the time. It will be a slaughter for jugs.

quote:

#3 Create an algorithm to create a “gear score” of sorts that make the gap based on gear score and not level. Perhaps rarity could be used.


Not supported. Jug mode was also made so that players with same level gear wouldn't battle a jug. This idea would put those players into matches with jugs.

quote:

#4 Remove juggernaut battles from the 2v2 button. Make a separate button for players who actually want to face juggernauts.


Not support and never supported. This would kill juggernaut mode because this would be everyone's way out of it. Jugs and people trying to support their factions would suffer because of those who don't like fighting jugs. Not to mention for those who would battle jugs they would always be anti jug builds and fully powered varium. This would destroy the battle battle mode.

@ renegade

Most of the people who complain about jug mode have never even been jugs themselves sadly. They only see it from the player's perspective and not both sides.




Fortitudo -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 13:28:09)

@ Mother1
Everyone's response to #4 seems to be the same, but if people would all choose not to play jugg, then why have it in the first place? An unfun mode shouldn't be in place. As it stands it seems to be a mode for high level players to enjoy crushing low level players.

As for #3, I'm not saying they should have the same gear score. I'm saying the gear score should be used to calculate the proper gap, one that would be more optimized than just level. Please read my previous post regarding this.



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 13:36:51)

@ fortitudo

Why do you think the staff never put idea 4 into the game in the first place? simple because the masses unless they are anti jug builds would never willingly fight a jug that is why. Plus this idea wouldn't be fair to those of us who paid for the card. Remember some people paid with varium which is real money to play this battle mode. How is it fair to them if they can't get a fight because everyone is avoiding the battle mode because of a get out of free card (AKA the juggernaut button to battle jugs)

Also wouldn't be obvious that people who would want to fight jugs would be people who have builds to destroy them? I have beaten these kinds of builds before and it is nice to have them once in a while for a real challenge. However having them 100% of the time would be a disaster to this mode.

If you don't like jugs play 1 vs 1 until you get to level 31 and then you will be away from jugs period.



the final hour -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 13:45:44)

im not sure how to get too said outcome but i think the easy answer is make it so the challengers are on even footing or as close as possible so the juggernaut has a relativelyy good chance of winning and the players have a relatively good chance of winning i have to admit juggernaut is far to easy as it stands

heres my juggernaut record just to proove a point
wins -1545
losses-94

and im no super pro i like to think im good but i dnt take much pride in my juggernaut record bcos honestly a couple of heals juggers over you win its that hard sometimes ya dnt have to heal.



Fortitudo -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 13:52:11)

@ Mother1

If paying players have the right to play a battle type of their choice, why can't I? I want to play 2v2, because it is the most enjoyable battle type for me. Others want to play juggernaut, because that is the battle type they enjoy. In the case of 1v1 and 2v2, players gear specifically for those battle types do they not? How is that any different from players gearing specifically to fight in juggernaut mode, as I know the juggernauts themselves certainly do. There are several very effective juggernaut builds, so why can't there be effective anti-juggernaut builds? I don't see why I should be forced to play a game mode of a particular type, just to avoid being crushed by extremely powerful juggernauts. Grinding from 26 to 31 in 1v1 is simply not fun for me. I got to 26 without worrying about leveling, because I truly enjoy that mode.

Now that you bring up that juggernauts pay for the mode, why not refund them and make juggernaut battle open to everyone, but only on demand? That way each side has to choose to play, but it costs them nothing extra, just like 2v2 or 1v1.

Every response to my post so far seems to be defending the idea that juggernaut players deserve an unfair advantage. What I’m saying is that they obviously deserve an advantage since it’s 2v1, but not an unfair one. In addition, responses keep mentioning that I have yet to player as a juggernaut myself, nor would I want to. It has become formulaic on how to win (pick build A, B, or C), and would garner me no satisfaction. I prefer to battle players on the more level ground of 2v2, where I have to adapt to the battle, rather than using the same rinse and repeat tactics over and over again.

@ the final hour
Exactly my point on your ratio. Just about every juggernaut has a similar ratio. Read my above response and see that I just want a level playing ground, where a juggernaut doesn't only lose because his/her opponents got lucky.



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 13:53:08)

@ final hour

You have a better record then myself.

@ OP

You may not know it but Jug mode was originally made for varium players only to play as the jug. Later on they made it for everyone. Also there are non varium jugs who play this mode as well. Your idea would hurt them worse then varium players because unlike varium players most non varium jugs are without enhancements.

Also most non variums who fight against jugs when they reach the cap or close to it (meaning 28-30) actually enjoy fighting jugs because they can hold their own. so it isn't completely un fun for all who face them. I have alts that I use to fight against jugs with myself and many of them I can give a run for their money.

Besides when omega comes enhancements (which give varium jugs their edge) will be gone as well as extra stats. It will be completely balanced for all players so if anything non of these will be needed because jugs will have it a lot harder when omega comes. Until then just 1 vs 1 to level up.

@ OP new post

There is a difference between balancing the mode and destroying it. Your 4th idea will destroy the mode. If you never played as the jug before you wouldn't know this, but most of us who are speaking have so we have a better persective.

I never said no one could make anti jug builds. However getting them 100% of the time just because some players who can't beat jugs can have peace isn't fair either. Especially to the non varium jugs. There is a silver skull card for credits so non variums can play. I know this because I brought it. You would kill this mode even more for the non varium jugs that play. They have it hard enough as it is.




Fortitudo -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 14:20:16)

@ Mother1

I was completely aware of the origins of the juggernaut mode, and had its conception in mind before publishing my thread. In your first paragraph you imply that non-varium players are worse in juggernaut mode, because they are not as well equipped. As such, how does my idea of a “gear-score” not make sense? A non-varium player would be matched with players at one level, and a varium player would be matched with others at a different level? Believe me; a well implemented matchmaking algorithm would do wonders for not only juggernaut mode, but all modes. More battles would become challenges requiring diverse tactics than not.

In your second paragraph you state that higher level players do better against juggernauts and even enjoy it. Of course they do! I am not disputing you on that matter, but don’t you see that you are proving my point? If juggernauts were matched only with such higher level players who stand a chance of winning and enjoying themselves, then I would not have written my original post at all! Furthermore, you talk of alternate accounts giving juggernauts an out of the ordinary fight. This is the example of the lucky team that may have a chance of winning.

In response to your third paragraph, I would not say that juggernaut mode will be completely balanced when omega comes out. The gap between level 26 and level 35 is simply too great for enhancements to make a significant difference. Indeed, it has yet to be said how varium players will be compensated for their previous enhancements and what effect this compensation will have on balance. Finally, let me once again express my disinterest in 1v1 battles as a means to level up. I do indeed plan on waiting to see how omega will truly impact balance in all battle types, but until then feel I need to express my thoughts on the current situation to help better the game mode for everyone. I have talked to my compatriots when facing low odds against extremely powerful juggernauts, and they do not enjoy always being at a disadvantage either. Unfortunately, it seems that most forum posters are those who are already high level and do not have to deal with such things any more. Thus I will do my best to let the other side of the story be told.

Please tell me Mother1, do you honestly enjoy nearly always winning in juggernaut mode as a level 35 varium player? Do you care to share what you juggernaut ratio is? Why is it not fair for juggernaut opponents to always have an anti-juggernaut build, when juggernauts themselves always have a juggernaut build? I am not saying any one of my ideas is the end all be all solution for juggernaut mode. My point is that there is a balance issue that needs to be rectified. My hope is that other players will provide feedback that will aid in improving the balance, rather than denying that there is a problem. If the juggernaut mode is to be balanced effectively it would likely take a synthesis of some of my ideas and others not yet mentioned.



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 14:39:51)

quote:

In response to your third paragraph, I would not say that juggernaut mode will be completely balanced when omega comes out. The gap between level 26 and level 35 is simply too great for enhancements to make a significant difference. Indeed, it has yet to be said how varium players will be compensated for their previous enhancements and what effect this compensation will have on balance. Finally, let me once again express my disinterest in 1v1 battles as a means to level up. I do indeed plan on waiting to see how omega will truly impact balance in all battle types, but until then feel I need to express my thoughts on the current situation to help better the game mode for everyone. I have talked to my compatriots when facing low odds against extremely powerful juggernauts, and they do not enjoy always being at a disadvantage either. Unfortunately, it seems that most forum posters are those who are already high level and do not have to deal with such things any more. Thus I will do my best to let the other side of the story be told.


You aren't the first person to come here complaining about Jug mode. Many others who are the same as you (meaning non varium and are close to level 26 who want to do 2 vs 2) have come here complaining "Jug mod is unfair" "Make a jug button so I can choose when I want to fight jugs" (which we both know would be never) and many of them suggest what you have suggested or even worst ideas to make it impossible for the jug.

Also do you know how long it takes for jugs to get matches? 3-5 minutes sometimes for a single match even on a packed server. You know why? Because they added Jug battles to factions which increased the number of Jugs. Before then did this Jug matched never took this long to start. So your gear score idea would only make it take even longer. Have you ever waited so long for a match to the point were you cancelled? That would be the case here.

I will admit this Jug mode in some ways is unfair to non variums especially those without gear or weak gear. However did you know that a varium player without enhancements is only a slight stronger non varium? That is what is going to break jug mode in omega. Without enhancements and stat bonus all the players will be on equal footing. In a jug match there has to be some advantage for the jug who is going against two players, otherwise the jug will get slaughtered. That is what most of the people who complain here forget about. Plus many non variums I have played have learned to adapt to jugs and win.

If you come across a jug, take their energy so they can't heal or use their moves. If you have debuffs use them, back in my day they used the assault bot, but now most don't. If you have moves that go through defenses such as bunker blaster, use them. While a jug is a strong player they aren't unbeatable.

In omega there will be unlimited NPC farming for better gear which will help players as well so when Omega comes there will no longer be any excuses for non variums to be able to beat jugs.

quote:

Please tell me Mother1, do you honestly enjoy nearly always winning in juggernaut mode as a level 35 varium player? Do you care to share what you juggernaut ratio is? Why is it not fair for juggernaut opponents to always have an anti-juggernaut build, when juggernauts themselves always have a juggernaut build? I am not saying any one of my ideas is the end all be all solution for juggernaut mode. My point is that there is a balance issue that needs to be rectified. My hope is that other players will provide feedback that will aid in improving the balance, rather than denying that there is a problem. If the juggernaut mode is to be balanced effectively it would likely take a synthesis of some of my ideas and others not yet mentioned.


Ok here is my current jug record

336 wins
201 losses

As you can see I don't even have a 50% win ratio myself and quite a few of my wins and losses have come from disconnects. Also the reason why I say it would be unfair is simple. When you are the Jug you have no idea who you are going to fight do you? No you are in the dark you would need to adapt. However if your 4th idea was put into play the players making anti jug build would know they are going against a jug because they choose to go against that person. See where I am getting at? The way it is now neither side has a clue who they are going to be facing. They could be facing anti jug or tank build, a power build, you don't know. However when one side knows who they are facing guess what? They can prepare a build to counter it, and getting counter builds 100% of the time because you have the advantage of knowing who you are facing would be fair now would it?



Waxor9001 -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 14:43:53)

Unsupported, it 2v1 you only need to get a better build, no offence meant.



TerrorCauser -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 15:04:00)

As my level has increased in epic duel, I have been on both sides of the battlefield when it comes to juggernaught. I have a skull card and I have to say it is extremely fun and quite well balanced. This game is a matter of luck, and so are matchups in terms of level and varium. We'll have to see once omega is here...!



Fortitudo -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 15:13:10)

@Mother1

Well clearly there is a problem with juggernaut mode, if many such complaints as mine have been raised before. In my opinion, even if every juggernaut has to wait a minimum of three minutes to battle, the wait is reasonable. Looking at today’s leaderboards for juggernaut wins, the top player has 206 wins with a win % of 89.6%. It seems to me that despite the wait, players are able to get in plenty of juggernaut battles. Personally, I would have no problem waiting longer to play more fair matches. I currently have a max level account in a MOBA game called Smite. In this game it takes an average of four minutes to join a match, but when matches are made they almost always are composed of teams balanced well against each other. It makes the match so much more enjoyable when you are not wiping the floor with newer players or being wiped yourself by far more experienced players.

The problem with your battle strategy for juggernauts is that most I’ve come across have very high defense and resistance, as well as methods to regain their energy and or health passively. This is the juggernaut loop where they are able to regain enough energy to continuously heal and stay ahead of any damage they receive. I never said that juggernauts are unbeatable, as even I have won occasionally, but it has always been due to luck.

I am really trying to understand your argument as to why players can’t choose their battle type, but I find it difficult. Juggernauts know exactly the type of build they need to succeed. That is, the infinite loop sort of build that I just mentioned. Defense + energy regen + health regen = win. Let me give you an extreme example. Look at the character page below for ironman03. He has exactly those qualities I mentioned and his ratio proves its effectiveness. No matter how skilled a player is, a 160:1 w/l ratio is truly absurd. The problem is that ironman03 is just an average example of a juggernaut player.

@Waxor9001

Obviously you did not read the thread, as it has been stated numerous times that a juggernaut knows he will join the juggernaut battle type, but a 2v2 player does not. If I want to play 2v2 I want to have a 2v2 build not an anti-juggernaut build. Please read the thread next time.

@TerrorCauser

Take a look at my screenshot and tell me that juggernaut mode is balanced again. Juggernaut mode is in no ways balanced for lower level players.

----

A typical juggernaut build and ratio, as depicted by ironman03.
http://bayimg.com/LaIpAaaED



Remorse -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 15:23:31)

I agree,

I have a level 26 and it is shocking how unfair it is, you are practically forced to do 1v1.



I think changes might now have to be made though since in omega variums will have less stats and the gap will be lowered , could work out fine.



King Helios -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 15:26:42)

It is unfair as 26-27, but as you level up, it becomes easier to beat juggernauts. There's someone in our faction (ask around) who is really good at beating juggers.



Fortitudo -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 15:30:03)

@Remorse & King Helios

Thank you for your valuable input. [sm=energyzard.gif]



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 15:33:12)

quote:

I am really trying to understand your argument as to why players can’t choose their battle type, but I find it difficult. Juggernauts know exactly the type of build they need to succeed. That is, the infinite loop sort of build that I just mentioned. Defense + energy regen + health regen = win. Let me give you an extreme example. Look at the character page below for ironman03. He has exactly those qualities I mentioned and his ratio proves its effectiveness. No matter how skilled a player is, a 160:1 w/l ratio is truly absurd. The problem is that ironman03 is just an average example of a juggernaut player.


Yes they know they need defenses to survive since they are doing 2 vs 1. However they don't know what kind of build they are going up against. However with the jug button idea you said the anti jugs know what kind of build they are going against and it would make Jug mode almost another form of NPC fighting (since NPC use the same build always and you know that they have this build.)

Also for me I use the one class that doesn't have theses. The merc class. Non of them have passive energy or health regain.

Tell me what would you do if you know you are going against a certain type of build? Answer create a counter build so you can win. With Jugs yes they are tanky because they know they are going against to people, however they don't know what to expect from those two people. Can you understand what I am getting at with this? Where as an anti jug player using your jug mode button will know what they are going against, know who they are going to be fighting. The only thing they won't know is their partner but with this button unless someone hit's it by accident their partner will also be another anti jug build.

Now image 2 players going against one while both having builds that are designed to destroy said build because they know they are going against said build. Tell me how would that be fair to the jug because I can't for the life of me think of it. Even if the jug tries to counter this with a different build, the jug only has one turn between him, while the anti jugs have two. If the jug doesn't have enough defenses he/she won't last against their opponents to take them out now will they?



theholyfighter -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 23:13:57)

Lol?! As a non var jugg I can say jugg is unfair! However, it's because of the opponents Raging EXTREMELY fast. Besides, my jugg record is Extremely poor as well(3:1). You want it to be 1:3 huh? Btw, when Omega is ready, they might have to lower the level range. Face caster tms, Bunker/berserker mercs, massacre bounties, Tank TLMs and CHs, with str BMs. 100% sure the juggle loses. Not to mention how unusually lucky the jugg's opponents are.



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 23:29:58)

@ theholyfighter

I know right. I remember real bad luck I had today. I was jugging against 2 players one of them didn't have any armor, and the other was a varium cyber hunter. The varium Cyber hunter skilled three turns yet they managed to still win.

But then again luck help them when the one without armor managed to block my strike, on his rage he crit with bludgeon, and on my rage the cyber hunter deflected my duel shot gun saving him and giving his team the win. If I was recording it I would post the link. I think it has to be some of the worst bad luck I had in a jug match.



theholyfighter -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/5/2013 23:55:33)

Exactly. Perhaps the battle engine gave them bonus luck factors to help them against juggs, and yet they're not satisfied. If I were a lvl 26 I'd go NPC farming until Omega. Then 1 vs 1 until lvl 29 or 30.



Remorse -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/6/2013 1:41:14)

3:1 is unfair to the lower levels!



It is not fair that every juggernaut thave a positive ratio and therefore means that the people versing the juggernauts NEVER ON AVERAGE HAVE A POSITIVE RATIO!


That is just screwed up to its greatest!


Especially non variums jugger, NON varium juggers SHOULD lose more then they win or at least 1:1 ratio, they are non varium!!!



DO you even stop to think of they other side???

DID YOU EVER THINK IT IS FAIR FOR THE LOWER LEVEL!!!???



I am a smart player, When I create new account my 2v2 ratio is around 4:1 and my 1v1 is 8:1 without using boosters nor NPCing or using varium.

Then why is it when I am suddenly FORCED!!! to verse juggers on my 26 that, smarts and strategy is completely voided for luck. and a shocking 1:3 lose ratio!!!!


Selfish Juggernauts!
IF you cant see your effect then that is COMPLETELY SELFISH!



theholyfighter -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/6/2013 2:06:07)

Oh I think I forgot to mention, my 1vs1 and 2vs2 ratio is somewhere between 50-55%, yep. I guess others have like 90%. Hell huh??? How about an Anti-Jugg Card costing 40k and for those who really hate it can get away from it.



Mother1 -> RE: Juggernaut Mode Unfair (1/6/2013 2:18:55)

@ remorse

I myself have a less then 70% win ratio and I am a varium jug remorse.

341 wins
201 losses

Also remorse why are you blaming jugs for this? We didn't make this battle mode the way it is the staff did. We only play it. Also do you honestly think anyone would actually willingly fight against someone they can win against if given the choice? It has been mention so many times remorse that it has been put into the frequently suggested ideas. However, the staff knows that if they gave players that aren't the jugs the choice in the matter no one would play it. I mean seriously remorse do you think anyone would especially with all the complaints about jug mode from that side? I doubt it remorse highly unless they were anti jug builds at the cap level.

Plus have you ever stopped to think what would happen if this did happen? Jugs would be facing 2 anti jug builds every time, and worse to wear the anti jugs will no they are going against a jug and what build they are using, but the jug will be in the dark. Even right now when the jug plays he doesn't know who will pop up just two people. I know you think I am selfish for saying this, but do you think for a minute this battle mode would last if they made a jug button for the regular players to face jugs? can you truly say that anyone would use this button other then anti jugs? I can honestly say no because this button would be the destruction of this game mode.

Besides remorse you said it yourself in omega enhancement will be gone (which gives jugs a lot of their power) plus extra stats will be gone as well (which is another thing that give jugs their power) Honestly I think omega will cause the regular players to stomp out jugs. When I spoke with rabble he told me that if what I feared started to happen they would do something to make it fair for jugs.

Plus remorse they did make changes in jug mode sometime ago. I remember them doing it because people would run away from jugs when ever they popped up, and they didn't pop up as often when I was leveling up because it wasn't a faction thing.

@ theholyfighter

that would be just as bad as an jug button for regular players. If this happened in omega I could see players farming NPC until they got 40K credits and buying this. The player pool would be empty. It is why the staff never made those in the first place. Because if they did they know it would be the death of this battle mode and they would have to refund everyone's varium or credits.



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