Damage Range Display (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> Damage Range Display (1/12/2013 15:02:46)

This was suggested by someone else before and I have not seen that thread for some time, but I still believe that it is a great idea.

Basically, when you choose an attack and mouse-over a potential target, a box like this *click to see* appears and shows you the calculated range of damage the attack will do. This is just for convenience so that the player does not have to add, subtract, multiply, divide the given numbers taking up their time in that turn. This allows more time to make more tactical decisions rather than "calcul8ing how much m1111lk the cow will give meh if I skweeeeze teh udderz". Especially with skill cores inbound for EpicDuel, this helps save the player time for more crucial decisions, like which move to use.




Midnightsoul -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/12/2013 16:18:06)

eh...idk, but um...
supported




Xendran -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/12/2013 16:29:46)

Oh this reminds me, there are some SERIOUS battle screen real estate and stat screen simplicity revamps in discussion, so ideas like this are good.

Main ideas being thrown around:
Revamping the battle bars, preferably to still only have two lines, but the top one being switchable between displaying: Active and Passive Cores / Equipment and Consumables
This way we dont have an extra 8 skills on our bar. (8 is not a guessed or assumed number)




NDB -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/12/2013 17:22:07)

I find that the risky moment when all it depends on is the damage range, calculations may not be enough and, like you said, the decision-making is difficult. That's why I have suggested a skill core. Feel free to restart that discussion, as it is locked, if you like it. Anyways, supported.




Remorse -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/13/2013 5:47:28)

Honestly, I like to use my opponents poor seance of shield kowledge and debuff effects to my advantage.

I like surprising my opponent by not dieing when they think I will die for example.


If you think about it it takes skill rather then good maths to be a accurate guesser of damage in that short time skill you get not by being good at maths rather skill obtained throught experince.


And I would prefer it if I kept this advantage.

If your smart enough you shouldn't need an indicator.


Which means basically just another boost to those less smart at the game and with powerful effortless build usable it means there is very little difference between the smart and less smart players and a game were smarts and skill isn't the deciding factor is a poor game indeed.




arthropleura -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/13/2013 9:27:08)

I would only support this for multi, 85% of numbers -armors is hard to calc >>
But really, this is kinda lazy...




Stabilis -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/13/2013 10:04:36)

What does convenience have to do with lazy? Why make things more complex or time-consuming for yourself or all players? If it is an "unintelligent" suggestion, then someone tell me how using basic math for damage is ever going to enlighten you to learn something new. Calculating those simple deductions to damage really is simple, you would only say lazy if it uses all of your efforts to make these calculations. In that case you would recommend this display system. Wisdom: do not take unnecessary risks.




Steel Slayer -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/13/2013 10:31:25)

Supported. This would be great, nothing to do with being lazy, just takes too long to run the numbers, this would be a great timesaver.




Xendran -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/13/2013 10:35:42)

I support this because of skill cores. They're going to make it MUCH harder to keep track of things within the time limit.




Lycan. -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/13/2013 11:54:11)

supported.
@resmorse
quote:

If your smart enough you shouldn't need an indicator.

Lol adding and subtracting doesn't make you smart and this idea is to help save time.




arthropleura -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/14/2013 0:54:18)

Not knowing how much damage is a flaw in their planning and unfamiliarity with their attacks. This causes them to choose defensive decisions where they had a chance to kill the opponent. This way you hardly need to think before choosing a skill to use...




Stabilis -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/14/2013 1:31:03)

quote:

Not knowing how much damage is a flaw in their planning-


First of all, argument null, ignorance is not a factor here because damage ranges can be calculated.

quote:

This causes them to choose defensive decisions-


What kind of argument is this? Nothing forces players to choose to be defensive, for another portion of the time that you did not consider (likely a time majority), players just attack, attack, and attack.

quote:

This way you hardly need to think before choosing a skill to use-


Hardly need to think!? Preposterous! There is just as much thinking involved as any other other turn in battle, and this only applies to attacks. Tell us Arthropleura, what is there not to think about after you calculate the damage range of an attack? Everything. An attack just means a loss of health for the target, that is definitely some basic material there! Strike, Fireball, Bunker Buster, whatever... that only accomplishes towards the ultimate goal of battling in EpicDuel: KOing! What takes more thought processing, is everything that is not an attack. Even Field Medic. Pretend Field Medic heals for 30 health, and you have 90/100 health. If you use Field Medic, you waste 20 points of Field Medic health for saturating it's use. Now if you heal when health is equal to or below 70/100 health, then you get the full effects of Field Medic. This, among various other effects like Intimidate, require true planning unlike attacking that is effective regardless. So do tell us again, why knowing the silly damage range, would be so mindless in an EpicDuel battle?




arthropleura -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/14/2013 8:41:45)

O_o I don't know how stupid you think people are..
But thanks for spelling my name right.
Anyhow, if a player is unsure of whether he can kill another, he will either take a blind risk, take the time to calculate or ensure his own safety before attacking, therefore potentially missing opportunities. This will take two of those options and simply being able to choose yes or no.
I thought epicduel was about stringing together the best combo of attacks to kill most efficiently. Not knowin how muh damage you do leads to leaving someone with 1-6 hp and the people who think they're so good going WTF lucky noob. I much prefer it like this.
And also, you would have noticed the higher each stat goes the wider the range (6-8 vs 41-51)
If you add this feature then if someone's hp is caught between damage range, it will simply be a matter of luck. I have no problems with the luck ATM but RELYING on it results in a low win rate. Having something solid to base you're attacks requires much less thinking
And I'm not even gonna bring reality into this..


Oh and btw ur example on field medic: that is preschool maths. What you are suggesting is elementary school maths, therefore replacing something of higher difficulty than your example




Stabilis -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/14/2013 11:51:33)

quote:

Anyhow, if a player is unsure of whether he can kill another, he will either take a blind risk, take the time to calculate or ensure his own safety before attacking, therefore potentially missing opportunities. This will take two of those options and simply being able to choose yes or no.


A careless action vs a contemplated action? This already happens, so how does this argue against a damage display?

quote:

I thought epicduel was about stringing together the best combo of attacks to kill most efficiently. Not knowin how muh damage you do leads to leaving someone with 1-6 hp and the people who think they're so good going WTF lucky noob. I much prefer it like this.


I thought EpicDuel was a sci-fi PVP meant to have fun, be entertained. [:-] Winning a battle is accomplished by strategy, stringing combos to kill can be your strategy, but there are others like IA survival. On the "1-6 health" example, I am not even about to comment how figurative that is... what you prefer is not what everyone needs. Some people like to sort their skills by effects like myself and if using attacks compare their damages. Having to click skill trees for 5-10 seconds is completely time-consuming and could end my turn if I was not fast enough at doing that. Then there are 8, 10, 12 year old kids trying to do the same thing comparing attacks, it is only more difficult for them, and is why you see them spamming as few skills as possible.

quote:

If you add this feature then if someone's hp is caught between damage range, it will simply be a matter of luck.


This contradicts your "preference" in the "1-6 health" example, so make up your mind, pro-randomness or anti-randomness. If you say pro-randomness, this feature still pertains.

quote:

If you add this feature then if someone's hp is caught between damage range, it will simply be a matter of luck. I have no problems with the luck ATM but RELYING on it results in a low win rate. Having something solid to base you're attacks requires much less thinking


Shining smokes Arthropleura, you do not have to rely on luck in a wide-range situation. If this feature was implemented I would always rely on minimal effects. That is to say, if for a reasonable example my opponent had 34 health, and my best attack had a damage range of 30-36 damage, first of all I would say "no, my attack does not have the minimal damage to kill", and secondly the majority of that attack's damage range compared to his/her health lies between 30-33, so I would be UNLIKELY to damage for a KO blow. "Having something solid to base your attacks on requires much less thinking". What?! The one point you can argue is that the thinking involved in achieving "something solid" is pre-completed. But is it a stupid thing to do? Have the number crunching pre-programmed without giving away what WILL happen (like the possible critical strike or block or deflection), allows more time to make tactical decisions rather than calculated estimates, which would be smart for whoever number-crunched.

quote:

Oh and btw ur example on field medic: that is preschool maths. What you are suggesting is elementary school maths, therefore replacing something of higher difficulty than your example


Technically that was not purely math, that was conditional calculating like you see in computer science. If this condition is true, do this, if that condition is false, do that. "Therefore replacing something of higher difficulty than your example". Excuse me, what?




arthropleura -> RE: Damage Range Display (1/15/2013 0:29:06)

well the post died...
and could you explain how i contradict myself, and on ur first point: i said it would take it away :/




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