RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (Full Version)

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Giras Wolfe -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 0:10:03)

@Angels

You talk as if giving a small refund for enhancements will break the game. How? That doesn't even make sense.

Think of it like selling a weapon. If you sell a weapon you get back 25% of the varium you spent it. Now imagine the Dev's decide the weapon is OP and delete it from the game without your consent. You would at the very least expect that refund. Enhancement slots are like weapons. We pay money for them to be better at winning battles, and they were purchased under the impression they would never go away. It would be an atrocious violation of player's trust to not give out the enhancement. It would make some of the games oldest players leave in disgust. Giving 5,000 varium back to someone who spent 20,000 varium on a feature that is vanishing is only common sense, and certainly wont fundamentally damage the game.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 0:12:25)

@ Angel

loyality means nothing to u ?? Old players can go, new players r here ?? The game pretty much exits coz of old players ..

And who got prob with varium compensation, could give their name out, those players will not receive so ...u could satisfy ur self with some bike :)


And if u don't like the varium refund idea, ill be soon posting an alternative way of compensation, in suggestion section.


P.S : totally agreed with wolf



Xendran -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 0:18:46)

quote:

they did not give refunds and compensations for it,


The purpose of war cannons was for the achievments. You still have the achievments. Not only that, but they're rare achievments now.
The purpose of enhancements is stats. You no longer have the stats.

I'm not going to continue discussing marketing with people who do not have the proper education to fully understand how it works.
I'll end with this: The people who are against a compensation are purposely attempting to damage the game and its revenue out of spite, because i doubt that anybody can legitimately be that naive.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 3:10:26)

@above incorrect, most do it for their factions, most continue to use it after they have got the cheevo, like me.
you talk as if you know everything, but you don't, explain to me that if the cannons are for the cheevos only, why does most continue using it?
i think you should get a degree in human psychology next.

no-one is against the idea of compensation, i guess you just read it incorrectly, we are against full refunds.
people tend to forget the good thats happening, your enhancements will be a waste in a few months time because a new and more powerful item will come and you need to fully enhance it, therefore you leave your already enhanced and outdated item in your inventory collecting dust, now tell me, isn't that the same as what is happening in omega? but the positive thing about omega is that your items will no longer be outdated and you can use whichever items you like. people tend to pay attention to the negatives of things.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 3:13:01)

^ I don't say either full refund, 60-70% refund should do i guess ...



Xendran -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 3:19:56)

quote:

we are against full refunds.


Full refund was never, and has never, been mentioned in any of my posts on this forum since i joined in 2007.
I'd be fine with a 30% refund. Angels is against a refund in general, but he shows a great dislike towards the game so i believe that the reasoning for it is actually to purposefully cause harm to the game.



Drianx -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 3:20:11)

quote:

I'll end with this: The people who are against a compensation are purposely attempting to damage the game and its revenue out of spite, because i doubt that anybody can legitimately be that naive.

100% correct.
And no, I do not agree because I'm poor and I desperately want a refund lol.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 3:23:23)

quote:

I'd be fine with a 30% refund.


TOooo less. minimum 50% ^_-



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 3:41:27)

quote:

Full refund was never, and has never, been mentioned in any of my posts on this forum since i joined in 2007.

@xendran you should have stated it clearly then, when people say refund without stating if it is a 30% or other % refund, it automatically comes to a conclusion to me that you mean a full refund.
and i wasn't directing my second paragraph towards you only, it was for others as well.

@soul no 20% is fine as it is :P



Angels Holocaust -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 3:56:29)

@ Xendran

quote:

I'm not going to continue discussing marketing with people who do not have the proper education to fully understand how it works.
I'll end with this: The people who are against a compensation are purposely attempting to damage the game and its revenue out of spite, because i doubt that anybody can legitimately be that naive.


There is no need to be-little me in front of the forums. I guess we can agree to disagree, it's that simple. We're both entitled to our opinions. I have never disrespected you in any way and have offered counter measures. I ask you do the same.

quote:

Full refund was never, and has never, been mentioned in any of my posts on this forum since i joined in 2007.
I'd be fine with a 30% refund. Angels is against a refund in general, but he shows a great dislike towards the game so i believe that the reasoning for it is actually to purposefully cause harm to the game.


That's just not true, it couldn't be farther away from the truth. Have you looked at my wins compared to yours? The difference is night and day. I love this game and have played it even in gamma and delta despite the poor performance. I love this game and have offered great suggestions over the years to make it better. I suggested class change and that generated an infinite amount of revenue to ED. Giving out refunds is just preposterous, when is the FREE stuff going to stop? Can I please have my lost varium and credits that I spent on war cannons? The answer is no. We have to move forwards and not backwards. We can't always have it our way, sacrifice is needed for progress.



Xendran -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 4:01:07)

Like i said, not giving out proper compensation WILL damage the game. Its not that it might damage the game, it WILL. So you being against proper compensation is willingly wanting something that will cause damage to the game.
Also, you even posted a review sayign that you dislike gamma and delta. The game is currently in delta, meaning you currently dislike the game.
Win count also is related to time and time alone, no other factors are in play there.
Class change was suggested by a vast number of people, you cannot take credit for it, as it was a general idea that the majority of players wanted.

Also, there is a difference between belittling something, and not wanting to discuss a topic that the other party has a different level of education on. It's the same for any subject.

Giving out a partial refund for something that is having every single trace of it ever existing removed is completely valid.
There are still rewards from war cannons in game that you have.


quote:

We can't always have it our way


Except this time we actually can have it our way. The developers want to give compensation, you are attempting to convince them to either give a very poor one, or none at all.


You claim you love this game, yet you are purposefully trying to convince the devs to remove the compensation that they want to give, which will anger nearly the entire playerbase.
You talk as if we are trying to get something that we have no chance of getting, but what is actually happening is you are trying to take away/prevent something that we are being, and have been, promised.



SouL Prisoner -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 4:24:07)

quote:

@soul no 20% is fine as it is :P


And if they give 50% is it from ur pocket?? or u can't digest?? Seriously, if ur so much over whelming of varium, that u don't need them then there r many players asking for it ...

u get 15% when u sell back, and here ??

Anyways m suggesting some thing other then varium, if they r ok, i don't mind :) (suggesting shortly in suggestion sec)


EDIT : Done, here : Enhancement Compensation!



Angels Holocaust -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 4:39:01)

@ Xendran

Your optimism never ceases to amaze me. If the devs wanted to give "just" compensation they would've told us exactly what we were receiving at the beginning of the Omega design notes. Why wait till the very last minute to reveal the compensation? That way the people can't complain about it.

quote:

There are still rewards from war cannons in game that you have.


I still have my achievements from using the war cannons. Are you suggesting that we receive an achievement for using war cannons?

quote:

You talk as if we are trying to get something that we have no chance of getting, but what is actually happening is you are trying to take away/prevent something that we are being, and have been, promised.


The devs have made countless promises and they were broken for a purpose. Remember elites? We could no longer allow them to have unlimited varium because it would break the balance of the game. What about founders? We were promised to be taken care of, and that was not the case. We just have to acknowledge that as the game changes, so do promises.

quote:

Like i said, not giving out proper compensation WILL damage the game. Its not that it might damage the game, it WILL.


If history serves me correctly, we received achievements for using war cannons. We didn't receive varium compensation for using war cannons, so why should we for using enhancements? Doesn't make sense. The devs didn't give out varium compensation for war cannons and the people are still playing. You're blowing this issue out of proportion, nothing will happen. Sales will be better than ever and real change will descend upon ED, it will make this time different than all of the rest.



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 4:59:47)

as i see it the only reason i play is for fun
at the moment i agree the reason on compensation and that they are not telling us is that we are going to complain about it and they don't want that
but at the same time they always try to be fair, since i started playing lots of things have gone wrong and if they can fix it, they have
so lets wait and see as i only play for fun the game looks good for me



Drianx -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 5:01:31)

quote:

We didn't receive varium compensation for using war cannons, so why should we for using enhancements?


Because if enhancements aren't removed, you will continue to benefit from them. Basically the advantage they will provide over non-enhanced people is limitless in time.

But if war cannons hadn't been removed, you wouldn't have continued to benefit from shooting the cannons anyway. Once you stopped shooting and got the cheevo, reward stopped coming. You already got the best out of the feature. The reward for shooting the cannons was limited in time and consisted in an achievement.

So by removing war cannons no financial harm has been done to players, but with enhancemennts it is a different story.



Xendran -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 5:05:20)

Angels, you claim that I am simply optimistic, but if you're just pessimistic or trying to be a realist, why are you actively crusading in favor of the negative option?



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 5:22:48)

Drianx thats not true lots players payed lots money to get on the war board then they took it away so they lost lots money if they had left the war board it would have been ok



zion -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 5:44:35)

@ xendran
I am going to have to disagree with you based on two very simple points. First, the enhancement system provided Varium users with significantly OP builds for over two years now. By investing in enhancements, a user could play at an elite level without being that great at the game. If you were good, you were undefeatable. Based on your studies, I'm sure that you realize what an immense value that was for enhancers.
The second point is that the enhancement system was a vicious cycle. Every update provided higher-statted weapons and more OP-ness as long as you enhanced the weapons right away. This caused players to pay twice for their weapons and was a very broken system. If this system was still in place for Omega, you would have to buy new weapons and enhance them in order to stay on top.
To sum up:
Players received tons of value from their enhancements in the past and the new system eliminates the double-buying of weapons - a benefit for the future. Any compensation is a complete gift from the devs and should be treated as such. #grateful



Drianx -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 5:46:31)

@biker
Agreed on that one. Although in my opinion being on a board without any other benefit from it or from the action that caused it is useless.



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 5:50:41)

this game was lots fun now its boring because everything got nerfed so now they are putting the fun back into the game so that's very good just hope omega comes in January not February



Xendran -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 5:56:08)

quote:

. First, the enhancement system provided Varium users with significantly OP builds for over two years now. By investing in enhancements, a user could play at an elite level without being that great at the game. If you were good, you were undefeatable. Based on your studies, I'm sure that you realize what an immense value that was for enhancers.


Which is now being taken away. This is a business, and you MUST please your customers if you want to continue making money. Whether or not its "right" or "wrong" to give compensation is totaly irelevant.

quote:


The second point is that the enhancement system was a vicious cycle. Every update provided higher-statted weapons and more OP-ness as long as you enhanced the weapons right away. This caused players to pay twice for their weapons and was a very broken system. If this system was still in place for Omega, you would have to buy new weapons and enhance them in order to stay on top.


...How does this disprove me at all? This right here is a perfect example of why compensation is necessary to maintain a good PR, the enhancement system was very malicious towards the playerbase.

quote:

Any compensation is a complete gift from the devs and should be treated as such


Again, whether it is a gift or not is not relevant. What matters is that in a business like this it is a very harsh environment, and if you do not treat yoru players properly they will stop buying your product and start boycotting it.



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 6:03:19)

Xendran i agree with what you say and that will apply to me as well but i still think they will treat the players right at l;east i hope so so i will wait

Again, whether it is a gift or not is not relevant. What matters is that in a business like this it is a very harsh environment, and if you do not treat yoru players properly they will stop buying your product and start boycotting it.



zion -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 6:14:12)

Just getting rid of the enhancement system is a compensation and "treating them properly". The devs are giving you a game where you can spend a lot less varium in the future while still remaining at the top.



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 6:18:13)

zion being at the top does not bother me but being treated fairly does



Xendran -> RE: =ED= A Harsh Master - January 14, 2013 (1/16/2013 6:19:48)

quote:

Just getting rid of the enhancement system is a compensation and "treating them properly". The devs are giving you a game where you can spend a lot less varium in the future while still remaining at the top.


First of all, no that's not a fair treatment. Second of all, that is not how a business works. It doesn't matter if its "fair" either way. it matters if your customers are happy. If they are not happy, you are completely screwed.
The developers will lose substantially more from not giving out a proper compensation than the tiny amount of initial varium sales they would lose by giving out a moderate (25-35%) refund.



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