RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (Full Version)

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Giras Wolfe -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/17/2013 16:26:07)

I am happy with where field medic is, as long as players have more options to regain HP in the future. That is, the re-implementation of boosters and other such skills.




ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/17/2013 17:19:14)

Now, I know people are going to disagree with support buffs, but too much has been taken from the one stat that is made for countering strength. Strength mercs died down because of builds such as heal looping and the support BH and will die down once again if support gets this vital buff. Support mercs have already been nerfed considerably and there is almost no support build that an EMP and yeti can't destroy.

One more thing: What was wrong with heal loopers? I loved fighting them and now that we have cores we will have tools even after we run out of EP.




Remorse -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/17/2013 23:50:29)

^ I agree

Strong support builds are what kept the STR builds at bay,

They hit hard? No problem just heal a lot.

Having it set to a certain amount means you have to invest a lot of point, giving the STR builds a point amount advantage since they don't need to invest points into heal.

One of the many reasons STR has become to strong since support doesn't improve heal.






But I could be completely wrong it could make support builds way to OP.


What the devs need to do is make a much better system of being able to test balance changes WITHOUT then needing to release it, they should have the option of scrapping the idea all togther if it doesn't show promising testing results.




Not having this system is probably the main reason the devs have a history of releasing overpowered items, making slow balance changes, and making the wrong balance changes.




Even if this sort of system is extremely hard to release it is probably one of the most important things they need to think about releasing especially with all the new skill cores coming in.






Midnightsoul -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/18/2013 1:00:59)

Perhaps Field Medic should improve by like ever 6 support.

That way, it can barely be abusable...maybe even by every 7 or 8 support...




rayniedays56 -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/18/2013 1:20:42)

How about having Field Medic scale by Level (as it does now) and some other way INSTEAD of support?


Kind of like Focus works, instead it scales by not allowing abusers to benefit by it.


I was thinking of having it scale with Focus, but then people would say this is overpowering focus builds.


SO....

I came up with this idea:


What about having field medic scale the same way that Dragon Fable's Dragon Lord can heal, where it is a percentage of their total health?


Example:


A level 1 Bounty Hunter has 55 HP. They have a level 1 Field Medic. Say we use a random number (10%) and use it for Total HP regen?

The base heal for level 1's is 14 HP.




The heal formula now becomes:


(base heal)+(base HP)(10%)=Total HP regained.


14+(55)(0.1)

14+6

20 HP healed now.




Say for a level 35.


I have 90 HP with a level 1 Heal.


36+(90)(0.1)

36+9

45 HP regained.



So, for a level 35 with 90 HP, the heal becomes:


45
48
51
54
57
60
62
64
66
68


Obviously, there are issues involved. Too high base HP?

Well, nerf the buff and replace with -6 at all levels.

Becomes...


30 HP regained for level 35 base.


Formula:

30+(90)(.1)

39 HP healed at level 1 FM



Thoughts?


I also know it looks too abusive with strength/high HP builds.


So, a strength mercenary with 130 HP would be able to heal (with a level 5 *42 BASE*) could heal 55 HP at level 5...




Drianx -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/18/2013 2:52:07)

You can't be serious raynie. Have you ever played Epicduel?

Str abusers have high HP, so give them a high heal under these circumstances as well....

With Field Medic improving by Support we are actually looking for a way to counter strength, not to encourage it, for Christ's sake.




rayniedays56 -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/18/2013 2:54:39)

It's what I was thinking as well. :/


But we also don;t wanna see support abusing TM's and CH's...


I don't know what to do. It seems the abusers will always find a way past something glorious :/




Stabilis -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/18/2013 3:00:54)

Scale EVERYTHING (skills and skill cores) by purely the level and skill level. It never fails.




Drianx -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/18/2013 4:02:21)

@raynie
Support abusing is not a problem anymore. Remember there is always the Yeti who eats up the aux and gun, leaving poor support abusers harmless.
I have never been beaten by support guys after starting to use the Yeti.




rayniedays56 -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/18/2013 4:11:15)

@drianx.


Hmm...you do have a point you do. Maybe level scaling and support scaling by 5 up to a maximum heal point could be set up?


Right now we can heal 36 HP at level 1, which is amazing to me, since I can now heal loop at level 1 with 17 EP.


Maybe having a limit of 45 HP healed at level 1?




Remorse -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/18/2013 4:24:04)

How about support scales the exact same as it did in beta, or slightly less as well.

However their is a heal cap which increases based on what level the field medic is.


This way it can't be abused at lower level by being extremely high, but you can still get a nice and high feild medic by leveling it up high as well as good support.




The heal cap could start at 45 lvl 1 one then increase by 5 each level thereafter.
Maxing at 90 at max heal.

90 does seem like a lot but you must remember you would need to spam support extremely hard and having max heal is high energy cost, making it much easier to counter with drains.
Usually high heals aren't the problem, it's low cost high heals combined, so as long as they are restricted at lower level more it should be fine.

Not to mention it would take up a lot of skill points.


Plus it's only high when compared to these days compared to beta people could get above 90 with max heal.




Midnightsoul -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/18/2013 16:01:34)

I feel like it probably should improve with support, but it needs a dex requirement instead of a tech requirement.




Kign of The Ring -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/20/2013 12:53:15)

Just an idea why not make heal increase with focus???
Just think about it, more balance to skills, no ridiculous support, and more use for bots in battle again... Can we not reach an agreement here?[:)]




Remorse -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/20/2013 13:08:30)

^ No because it would make focus OP,


If you don't wont support abuse, you only need to add a heal cap per level of field medic.


Making them strong on focus builds only, will make builds that aren't abuse or focus underpowered.

You shouldn't disadvantage the in between build that don't use focus.




Kign of The Ring -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/20/2013 15:06:34)

Focus creates diversity pretty much everyone has a bot and if you raise focus up to 50 instead of 45 that's 200 points used, most people wont use this option, further more it would establish higher balanced because you wouldn't have as much abuse. Progression work as Bot with base of 25 heal increase by 5 therefore 5 focus heal renders 50 hp and max heal renders 95 hp min being 25-70 max being 50-95. Also if you think really hard you start out at 25 base health with Field Medic, 1 focus renders 30 health that could be thirty of the four skills, 2 renders 35, 3 renders 40, 4 renders 45, 5 renders 50, thats with all four skills at a minimum of 50. That is as stated 200 stat points taken, at level 35 that renders alot less stat points to spam a skill, so that renders more diverse builds and being able to do more with focus other that use the robot, which most dont use for the attack but for the effects such as removing a buff or debuff... So before responding to this one think does it help or hurt balance? I see it helping because you have a counter to str and supp a buff to lower levels making the complete playing field more balanced and makes the game work how it is supposed to with thousands of builds that work and not 1 per class that destroys the rest.[:D]




RageSoul -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/21/2013 6:06:53)

@Kign
No , the game's gonna lack more creativity in builds because everyone is forced to "balance" their stats . Plus , Focus is very fine . I used 5 Focus before , but realised that when facing non-Focus , non-STR builds , it's quite much of a match to those builds even if their stats are ( seemingly ) "balanced".




Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/21/2013 8:40:51)

Just a comment; it says something if the only way to counter support builds is to use a particular equipment. Not that the Yeti is the only way to beat support builds, of course. But support builds aren't as tame a threat as you might think, and thus the issue of Field Medic should not be slighted. It could potentially be abused not just by extreme-support builds, but also by high-support high-strength builds.

I do agree that scaling adjustments might alleviate the problem, but it must be emphasized that the Field Medic scaling cannot ever return to pre-Delta levels.




Remorse -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/21/2013 8:54:25)

Some times people predict things to be way more overpowered then it actually will be, Providing that healing has a cap, then I dont think it will ever be as bad as some think, even with pre delta scaling.




Kign of The Ring -> RE: Field Medic: Should it really improve with Support? (2/21/2013 12:16:21)

You don't really have to base healing off of focus you could base it off a combination of two skills i mean there is a way around one skill that makes it deadly with particularly one build- ie support [:)]




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