Mercs were never underpowered! (Full Version)

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Hun Kingq -> Mercs were never underpowered! (2/17/2013 23:49:30)

Now that I got your attention, If the players that are playing the mercs would have used high strength double strike max Berzerker back in Delta we would see the same problem we are seeing now but Players purposely used weak builds to get buffs and new skills as well as getting other classes nerfed.

After a couple hundred battles 99% of the Blood Mage skills are low damage even at high stats without debuffs to increase damage and a viable debuff to decrease damage the Blood Mage is truly the most underpowered class.

With tech at 158: 44-53 max Plasma Cannon I was lucky to see above 43 damage or level 6 super charge above 47 damage that was on players with low resistance. Critical damage I got critical damage more often on everything else then I did on the Plasma Cannon.

Fireball, the highest damage I have seen with Fireball was 37.

Overload between 30 to 38 with high dex

Plasma Rain 42 to 47 with high dex in 1vs1 in 2vs2 and 2vs1 it is a joke.

Intimidation at max with high support does not make a difference to strength builds.

Reflex boost at max with high support no blocks and strength builds went through it as if it was not there.

Energy shield at max with high support, whoopee it increases resistance, but with high support malfunction or a hunter with energy blades or a merc with energy club it does not do much of a damage decrease to energy based weapons or skills.

Bludgeon is the only powerful skill the Blood Mage has left so don't nerf or buff it.

I ask Titan, "Why did he make so many of the Blood Mage skills so weak?" He never responds.

Plasma Cannon, restore that skill back to what it was at the beginning of Delta.
Fireball make it get the same battle damage as cheap shot, Double Strike, and Plasma Bolt, since the Blood mage has no buff skill to improve strength or a debuff skill that improves damage.
Plasma Rain undo the nerf already and test all 3 multis and make adjustments until all three get equal battle damage.
Intimidation either change it with a more useful skill or make it where it makes a difference.
Energy shield replace it with something that improves tech and will make a difference if attack by energy based skills/weapons.
Reflex boost replace it with something that increases Dex that makes a difference with getting hit with Physical Based skills/weapons.
maybe a skill that increases dex and tech.
Super Charge as an ultimate skill compared to surgical strike and massacre is a joke. Either improve Super charge or replace it.

We can't combat strength type builds if we have weak skills with no blocking and if they want the community to be successful against the strength builds of other class then give us the tools (skills) to do so.

Fix the equations fix the stat progression.



Mother1 -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 2:07:00)

Hun I have to ask why did you make a topic with the title Merc is not Underpowered only to complain about Blood mages once again? At least use an accurate title for your topic man.



rayniedays56 -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 2:25:20)

Ok HUN. This is where I HIGHLY disagree with you.

quote:

Now that I got your attention, If the players that are playing the mercs would have used high strength double strike max Berzerker back in Delta we would see the same problem we are seeing now but Players purposely used weak builds to get buffs and new skills as well as getting other classes nerfed.




I used a strength build for a while as a mercenary in Delta, and was STILL getting creamed. My build?

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n496/rayniedays56/build_zps495249ab.jpg

Not a bad build really (I used it to defeat Chairman Platinum Hard Mode)



Drianx -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 5:10:58)

quote:

Now that I got your attention, If the players that are playing the mercs would have used high strength double strike max Berzerker back in Delta we would see the same problem we are seeing now but Players purposely used weak builds to get buffs and new skills as well as getting other classes nerfed.

This assumption is wrong. In Delta hardly any lv35 varium player was playing as Mercenary. Most of today's Mercenaries were 5 focus Derp Mages - the strongest class of late Delta.

But anyway I used a strength Merc build with max Zerker back in Delta. The build was cool and fun to play although I was oftenly forced to heal instead of saving energy for Berzerker, but it couldn't have provided a win ratio similar to a massacre BH or a 5 focus Blood Mage.



Ranloth -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 5:16:25)

Blood Mages are fine. If you cannot beat anyone as a BM, you have issues with your build NOT the class. I do well as Focus 5 (even with Str abusers), obviously Str abuse works, I've seen Dex-based BMs who do not focus purely on Dex abuse so they get good weapon damage (+ Stun is very handy), and high Tech builds also work, especially in conjunction with Focus 5 since you can tank, use Tech-based skills (Plasma Cannon or go for SC even) and have great Bot damage + okay weapon damage.

Plasma Cannon is fine. Bunker is NOT stronger, they have same chance to Crit and if you DISAGREE then report it in Bugs section since you always say they don't and never report it (bug abuse I say!). Don't rely on solely one skill for damage since once your EP is gone, you're weak (unless there's Reroute).

Also I'm not being biased or anything, I'm a BM for few months and tried quite a few builds myself. It's not one build to rule them all (Focus 5 of mine beat Str abusers quite often but not always), so if you lose then it's not a balance issue. >_>



King FrostLich -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 5:23:16)

*says BM is weak again against certain class*
*walks away*



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 5:43:46)

Agreed with Trans, BM is perfectly fine.
If you say there are issues with it, it is YOU not the class.
Im now BM, and im doing perfectly fine, even in 2vs2 i won nearly 80% last sunday (not bad huh?)

For 1vs1 it is also not hard too win, its a matter of how you play your class!



Vagaran -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 6:52:24)

quote:

After a couple hundred battles 99% of the Blood Mage skills are low damage even at high stats without debuffs to increase damage and a viable debuff to decrease damage the Blood Mage is truly the most underpowered class.


BM is UP?

I got a pretty decent win ratio (1v1 - around 50% win ratio) I'm only having a tough time getting high win ratio due to all those STR Mercs and Block + Massacre BH's/CH's. BM is definitely not UP, if you can't win 99% of the time your build is probably bad.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 17:58:36)

50% win ratio (decent that is sad not decent) it is pretty clear with that percent the skills are under powered not the class or maybe it is you but then again it is most likely the skills.

I have been doing extensive testing of the skills while completing missions and battle quite a few staff and they seen for themselves how weak the different skills are at high stats.

Just because the rest of you do not want to see an improvement in the Blood Mages skills to help combat the other strength based classes does not mean that the skills should be kept as low damage skills where massacre, berzerker, and Cheap shot does not take much effort to take you out or that you think it is ok that Atom Smasher and EMP can take away 30+ points of energy with boosters still being disable is perfectly fine or that everyone posts here claiming they want balance but do not want skills to be balanced out. If you want balance that means skills can't be left out, Nerfing of skills should have ended with Delta not continue on in Omega because Nerfing does not solve problems as we seen with the latest Nerf. Do you want to see the same skills Nerfed again and they become useless then all of a sudden Plasma Cannon, fireball, and Bludgeon gets Nerfed again.

If you don't want to buff skills of the Blood Mage then stop complaining about strength abusers and just take your losses as you deserve.

You say the Blood Mage skills are fine but how come there are complaints how weak Plasma Rain is?

Did the damage of Double Strike, Berzerker, Bunker Buster increase or decrease when Omega began, neither, which only means one thing they where never under powered just players making under powered builds on purpose.



Vagaran -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 18:01:10)

As I said, my win ratio could have been higher if it wasn't due to STR abusing Merc and those block + Massacre BH/CH's.



zippinbolts -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 18:05:47)

You have to realize that the item field was vastly different back in delta... Its much easier to jack a stat to godly levels now.



Mother1 -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 18:09:01)

@ Hun

off topic

At least change the title of this thread to Blood mage is Underpowered or something like that.

Also no offense to you hun but the vast majority of your idea to buff BM have been vastly OP. 50% wins believe it or not is balanced because it is in the middle so if you are getting less then 50% wins that is one thing, but if you are getting 50% or more then that is another.

quote:

If you don't want to buff skills of the Blood Mage then stop complaining about strength abusers and just take your losses as you deserve.


Kindly explain to me how buffing blood mage skills will stop all classes to from losing to strength abusers? Why should we deserve to lose to strength abusers just because we don't agree with you that BM is UP?

If anything buffing them would only help BM fight strength builds not Cyber hunter, bounty hunter, Merc, Tech merc, or Tech mage only Blood mage. So as I said before please give me a valid reason why we deserve to lose to strength builds because we don't want BM moves buffed.



Ranloth -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 18:14:45)

If Bludgeon is useless then I'm really surprised. Skill is useful for TMs even, not Str-abuse ones, even at Level 1 due to boost in damage and being locked to Physical (good with Energy Primary). Fireball is also still used. Plasma Cannon too, but not as much due to Strength ruling over everyone and players switching to Str abuse.

quote:

If you don't want to buff skills of the Blood Mage then stop complaining about strength abusers and just take your losses as you deserve.

So.. if I wanna buff BM skills then they don't deserve loses at all?

But seriously. Only because we don't agree with you, doesn't mean our logic is flawed. Perhaps we see it differently and think about our builds hence why we don't lose nor complain that BMs are underpowered. It's not one build to rule them all. You will lose every now and then, just like you deserve. (as per your quote)



Hun Kingq -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 18:24:21)

zippinbolts, Actually I have seen the same amount of strength with high health as I seen in Delta by the Veteran merc Players and Double strike/Berzerker was a deadly combo in Delta as they are now but more players realize this Bunker Buster/Bezerker is just as bad. There are so many times I would have won matches but because of the skills even at rage have under performed or I don't block or get deflected on rage of a player with lower tech.

vagaran123, so what you are saying if the unblockable skills of the Blood Mage, as I am trying to get to happen, had more power you would have a higher win ratio? It is quite clear that you misread so here is part of the quote After a couple hundred battles 99% of the Blood Mage skills are low damage, I did not loose 99% of the time but lost more than I ever did before due to underpowered under performing skills.



Ranloth -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 18:38:20)

quote:

99% of the Blood Mage skills are low damage

1 skill = 11%. You're saying all the skills are useless? Bludgeon says otherwise. DA says otherwise. Intimidate says otherwise. Reflex say otherwise. Energy Shield says otherwise. Fireball says otherwise. And heal which is universal! (these are the skills I often use in battle myself NOT saying that ones I didn't mention are crap and useless)

I'll bullet point it:
  • Only because player has lower Tech, that doesn't mean they cannot deflect.
  • You lost because of rage, block or deflection. That doesn't mean there's problem with the class.. >_>
  • Skills aren't underpowered. You don't know how to use them.

    In regards to you knowing how to use them: How come do MAJORITY of BMs can use a decent build (not just Strength) and you struggle as one of the best BMs who has beaten Staff members in the past (your own words)? Class isn't underpowered, Balance Tracker says so as well, few of the Staff have said it in the past too (after Fireball nerf too) AND players adjust to it and still win. There isn't problem with the class, nor players but you not knowing how to get a decent build. Overexaggeration doesn't help either.



    • ScarletReaper -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 20:57:10)

    I have to agree that strength merc was good in delta seeing as how I played as one. Level 35 varium merc that's right I'ma wierdo who goes for the weaker classes. Skill tree looked like this...
    5-4-m
    4-1-1
    x-5-4
    x-x-3

    Was very strong with the right strategy. Not as good as the 2 hit K.O we see now, but far from underpowered. My tech abuse build was also boss. max bunker, level 8 surgical, just enough energy for 2 bunkers and 1 surgical and 95 health.

    As far as bloodmage being weak now, I call bull on that since I recently switched and have used a tech plasma cannon supercharge build with great success. Strength is also still good as well as support and 5 focus.



    Hun Kingq -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 21:43:21)

    ScarletReaper, The Blood Mage is not weak but all but the Bludgeon are weak. I tested insanely high strength with low health max fire ball just to see the damage and the highest was 37 and if I had the same strength for cheap shot or Double strike I would get 60+ damage or very high tech especially with malfunction I would get 60+ damage.

    With the highest tech I could muster, the highest I got with Plasma Cannon was 47 damage and was killed while waiting to use Super Charge and level 6 when I had a chance to use it the highest I got was 48 damage that is if the program is in my favor.

    So if the skills are not weak become a Blood Mage and prove it get 60+ non damage with fireball even try it at rage to see if you can get 60+ damage. Same with Plasma Cannon. Same with Plasma Rain. Same with Super Charge.

    None of you are willing to test the stats and skills at max because you know it means losing matches.

    Would you send someone into battle with no body armor and a BB-Gun?



    Mother1 -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 22:03:48)

    @ hun

    You are comparing fireball to cheap shot? Cheap shot ignores defenses unlike fireball so if you maxed out both abilities cheap shot ignores 34% of defenses where as fireball does not. So of course fireball would do less damage then cheap shot at the same level is said cheap shot connects and both players have the same strength and class. However, even with that perk guess what? Cheapshot can be blocked where as fireball does damage no matter what so if you are looking for sure damage fireball > cheapshot.



    Made 4 Sunny Days -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/18/2013 23:18:37)

    quote:

    maybe a skill that increases dex and tech.


    Just no. One power increasing both defensive stats? Not only that, it would increase the attack power of 4 of the blood mage's skills. You wanna balance buster, that'd be it.

    quote:

    Reflex boost replace it with something that increases Dex that makes a difference with getting hit with Physical Based skills/weapons.


    So you want it to be stronger? Reflex boost is a very good tactical skill. It increases your defense, chance to block (yes it does, don't say it doesn't) gives you a decent amount of energy regain and increases the power of 2 of the blood mage's skills. I have never found anything wrong with reflex boost.

    quote:

    Intimidation at max with high support does not make a difference to strength builds.


    No idea where this is coming from other than if you had high support, maybe you neglected your defensive attributes. Intimidation is a great skill that can mean the difference between a win and a lose. Heck, even using the omega weapons cores to knock a strength mercs power down a little bit has given me the edge in many battles.

    quote:

    Energy shield at max with high support, whoopee it increases resistance, but with high support malfunction or a hunter with energy blades or a merc with energy club it does not do much of a damage decrease to energy based weapons or skills.


    Again, this doesn't seem to be true. Energy shield and defense matrix are two of the best defensive skills in the game. Yeah a hit from a malfunction can counter it, but that's what makes a game balanced. And you still end up benefiting from the shield anyway.

    quote:

    or that you think it is ok that Atom Smasher and EMP can take away 30+ points of energy with boosters still being disable is perfectly fine


    Sure boosters are still disabled, I personally think it should stay that way. But, in case you didn't know, there is a core that you can put on you armor that literally works as a booster, except in someways it's even better.


    Im sorry, but I just can't see the logic in your argument

    ~Stay Sunny~



    ScarletReaper -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/19/2013 9:35:06)

    My plasma cannon using my tech build managed 58 damage on a crit with no rage, so I dunno why you seem to have trouble with that one. Supercharge only did that much damage for you cause you had it at level 6. My level 8 did 57 damage easy. Reflex boost and E shield work great. I have both at level 3 when I use strength build and intimidate at level 4. Makes all the difference against the strength users and caster mages.



    RageSoul -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/19/2013 9:52:45)

    Wow , Hun's actually pumping up my mood ....


    quote:

    Intimidation at max with high support does not make a difference to strength builds.

    How are you sure? And more importantly , did you consider the non-STR builds that have moderate STR ? You know , the ones that don't spam STR ?
    quote:

    Reflex boost replace it with something that increases Dex that makes a difference with getting hit with Physical Based skills/weapons.

    I don't really get this . Do you mean "for every hit , it increases over time"? Interesting , but not good .
    quote:

    Energy shield at max with high support, whoopee it increases resistance, but with high support malfunction or a hunter with energy blades or a merc with energy club it does not do much of a damage decrease to energy based weapons or skills.

    You stated it yourself , the higher numbers , the better , mind you , not just for you but your other fellow players as well . Plus , you forgot , STR-oriented skills are basing +damage on the actual Primary weapon damage , so it's not a surprise there . You want more RES ? Simple : Spam DEX and put all DEF/RES points into RES . Done.
    quote:

    or that you think it is ok that Atom Smasher and EMP can take away 30+ points of energy with boosters still being disable is perfectly fine

    No need to disable those , just enabling them is fine .



    Hun Kingq -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/19/2013 15:14:40)

    ScarletReaper, Is that damage every single match? I had tech all the way up to 177: 48-58 and the highest I got with non- critical damage was 47 and Critical damage due to Infernal Interdictor was 58 critical but critical damage was far and in between then a merc with tech at 158: 44-53 with max Bunker Buster with the non Infernal Interdictor got 68 Critical damage on average the damage of the Plasma cannon with that high tech was 43 or less. with max Intimidation max Reflex Boost and max Energy shields with dex at 106: 30-36 and tech at 93: 30-36 I used Intimidation they used Double strike got 50 damage then I put on Reflex boost then they got 13 13 38 I tested it over and over again same result. I tested the Omega core skill using that first then Intimidation boom I lost the match.

    I was malfunctioned from a high support tech mage same high defense/resistance build I used E-shield he used Aux and got 57 non critical damage then killed me off with sidearm.

    The high defense/resistance suppose to mean less damage but it has not made a difference since before Omega began and if you do block or deflect with high tech it is a miracle.

    look at the Leader Board is there any Blood Mages at all, that has to say something about the class.

    Why is it everyone here is more for nerfing then improving the skills of one class.

    Just did 15 battles with dex at 106: 30-36, tech at 93: 30-36 support at 62: 15-18 max Intimidate -42, max Reflex Boost 55 dex points, max Energy shield 36 resistance points, with using a combination of buffs with the debuff and the Omega core skill double strike very little damage reduction while reflex boost on Berzerker very little damage reduction. Being smoked with Reflex boost on I was at 121: 33-40 and the Hunter was Intimidated very little damage reduction with massacre. Merc with max Bunker Buster at tech 88: 29-35 with lower support got 47 critical damage with max reflex boost on dex at 161: 41-50. Support tech mage max Malfunction put e-Shield on and he got 47 non critical damage. Out of 15 matches with all that defense/resistance and strength reduction did I win one match no, I lost all 15.

    You say the Blood Mage is fine but hardly any of you actually use skills you just use only Bludgeon and bots. You say one minute the multis are just fine then you turn around and say Plasma Rain is weak which is it?

    You say Plasma Cannon and Supercharge is fine but you use strength builds and if they are fine use them 100% of the time.



    Melbourne -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/19/2013 15:31:56)

    This is getting ridiculous... Blood Mage has the same opportunities to be good as does every other class. Blood Mage has intimidate with 2 shields to block damage while regaining the little damage they take with bloodlust while being able to dish out damage with deadly aim and bludgeon. And wasn't this titled relating to mercenaries?



    Ranloth -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/19/2013 15:37:32)

    quote:

    if you do block or deflect with high tech it is a miracle.

    Lmao. ED Community will disagree with you on that one.
    quote:

    Why is it everyone here is more for nerfing then improving the skills of one class.

    Because.. we don't suggest no nerfs but leaving the class alone? Nerf = making skill weaker. Leaving skills as they are right now =/= nerf.
    quote:

    You say the Blood Mage is fine but hardly any of you actually use skills you just use only Bludgeon and bots.

    And you know that how? You could be doing the same. My most often skills are E-Shield, Heal, Intimidate, Reflex Boost, DA (passive, counts right?), and Bludgeon (at Level 1). That's for my Focus 5 builds but these come in handy pretty much in every single battle, but shields which depend on the enemy. Don't assume something without having sufficient information because you won't get people to agree with you otherwise.



    ScarletReaper -> RE: Mercs were never underpowered! (2/19/2013 21:23:26)

    @hun, you must be experiencing some rather unique bugs with intimidate and shields because they work good for me. Even my strength build has level 3 e shield and reflex with level 4 intimidate. The only class I lose to is castermages. I destroy those strength mercs and bounties. I also have used most of the skills on the tree at one point or another. Used tech build, dex build, strength, support, and 5 focus. All with decent success. My best ones though are strength and tech.



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