RE: Assimilation is OP now (Full Version)

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ansh0 -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:42:31)


quote:

Actually not, a regular 45 str already steals 18.


Compare that to others.

That is the drain at MAX.

Let's compare EMP at 45 tech MAXXED out.




theholyfighter -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:43:38)

I don't get it....TMs are the only one with Assimilation, and they have Reroute already..... What they need is an energy draining skill not an energy stealing skill.



ansh0 -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:44:49)

Did I mention Assim has the longest cool down?



rayniedays56 -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:45:39)

quote:

Ideas how to fix it (or one.. xD):
Make it 1 EP at Lvl 1 and going up by 1 each level, for up to 10 EP at Lvl 10.
Put back stealing of EP to 50% (so you get 1/2 of the drained EP for yourself) OR if needed, 25% to yourself due to having Reroute.
Make it improve by 1 EP per 10 Strength
Deals 85% damage instead due to likelihood of Strength build having *too* much fun with it.

That way, it'd be 20 EP drained at 100 Strength, 25 EP at 150 Strength (usually stats cease around that area), you get around 13 EP back at most if you've maxed it + it's not blocked, and you deal 85% damage to compensate for.. dealing damage and draining at the same time. Lvl 35 Staff has +35 damage so: 100 Str = 19-23 & 150 (148) Str = 25-30 -> with 100 Str + weapon damage it'll be 54-58 & 150 Str will give us 60-65 (before defences). Now penalty of *.85 bumps it down to 46-50 at 100 Str & 51-56 at 150 Strength.

Effectively, it'd be probably around 5-8 damage less with 85% damage penalty, you drain a bit less EP since it improves a bit slower (150 Str with new one would be +15 EP more whilst on the old one, 145 Strength would give +15 so you gotta invest a bit more stats, or +9 at 90 Strength as opposed to +10 with 1EP/9 Strength). And you get 50% of it back so we're looking at 10 EP with 100 Strength, 13 EP with 150 Strength, and so on. *even less if you use 25% example*

If needed, cooldown could also be bumped up by +1 since it's a bit more effective EP drain but it's efficient as well.


Didn't you suggest this before? I love it though. :)



theholyfighter -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:46:24)

Massacre, SuperCharge and Surgical Strike has the longest cooldown I remember...... Can be wrong tho.



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:46:29)

Suggest this? Nope. I've suggested a buff to it once but something entirely different.



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:46:36)

quote:

Compare that to others.

That is the drain at MAX.

Let's compare EMP at 45 tech MAXXED out.


The thing is ansh0, you only look at what it drains, not all the other side-effects that it has compared to other energy drainers,
It aint all about how much it steals.
Assim has:
100% primary dmg
No energy cost
100% energy return
What do atom and emp have compared to that:
0% primary dmg
Energy cost
0% energy return

See the difference ansh0?



ansh0 -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:53:21)

Fine, look at points needed to invest for decent effects.

EMP= 1-3 points

Assim= 10

Atom=1-5



Assim has a longer cool down, EMP is fail-proof with 100% chance of EP drain.



Assim scales WAY WAY WAY WAAY slower compared to EMP.






theholyfighter -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:56:06)

^However, Assimilation deals damage and gives you 100% of the damage you took away along with 0 energy cost.

Whereas EMP needs energy to use, does no damage, and doesn't give you any energy.



rayniedays56 -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 6:59:12)

I would say before they nerf Assimilation, they REALLY need to nerf EMP a bit. Being able to minus 30 EP which is unblockable is scary.



theholyfighter -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 7:00:58)

^ If they lower the energy amount, how about adding a little bit of damage along?



ReinVI -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 7:01:35)

yeah slow down emp scaling ( or make it do a set amount at each level ~ 20 lvl 1 +2 each level for 40 at 10? I dunno..



rayniedays56 -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 7:07:06)

I would say a scaling of 5 technology? Say you have 50 technology. This gives you a boost (after the initial +1 at 22) of +8 for 4 tech (what it is now). At 5, it would give +6 boost.



DARK SOUL OF HELL -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 10:48:14)

blitzex .... u can't compare assimilation to atom smash or EMP
think about it this way :
forget assimilation ............ compare EMP to atom smash ( wish u also can't but i am doing it to make a point )
EMP:
no blocks
energy cost
no dmg
takes more energy then atom smash

atom smash:
blockable
energy cost ( slightly lower )
no dmg
takes lower energy

well there is a big difference between these two skills and no body complained about it since long ago

soooo saying that assimilation is better and comparing them is ridiculous

and btw it can get higher then 20 ;)



button33 -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 11:50:49)

It is indeed that Assimilation has become a bit too OPed... And the points brought up are valid.

1. TM's need a draining skill, not a regain skill.
2. You dont need to max out Assimilation for it to be effective. A level 5 assimilation will take away sufficient energy. Around 12-15, which is more than enough to destroy some builds.
3. It does 100% damage. This is the biggest factor. When using EMP and Atom Smasher, a turn is lost. Every turn counts. And having mages go 100% damage while stealing 10+ is pretty devastating. The fact is, Mages can do two things in 1 turn, where as other classes cannot.
4. It has no energy cost. Everything else has a energy cost, so there has to be a certain time to use it. Plus, we not only do we need to invest a couple of skill points, we need to invest stat points to override the energy cost of the skill, or we have to give up some of our attacks.

When looking at this, I think that this is indeed OPed on mages.

However, a possible fix could be giving EMP to Mages, and putting assimilation on CH, which could replace Static charge, as it has become useless and obsolete.



Midnightsoul -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 11:52:07)

How about assmilation deals either no damage or half damage?



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 12:13:37)

I did suggest this: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=21176558 - and it's only on the previous page. Guess that'd be a bad idea? .-.



zer00x -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 13:11:13)

quote:

However, a possible fix could be giving EMP to Mages


No way, i can see casters mages using a devastating emp



zion -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 14:14:55)

Atom Smasher should deal damage or have a higher energy drain.



Stabilis -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 14:31:59)

If we needed another Strength-type move for Tech Mages why not just expand on the skill trees?



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 17:33:51)

quote:

soooo saying that assimilation is better and comparing them is ridiculous

You only look at the amount of energy the skills drain, thats why you dont see how OP assimiliation actually is.

Assimiliation not only drains energy (yes, lower then the others) but has way more and powerfull side-effects then atom and emp have.
Assim has:
No energy cost, where atom and emp have them
100% primary dmg, where atom and emp have 0%
100% energy return, where atom and emp have 0%
Is blockable, same as atom, emp however has the advantage on this one, but keep in mind this skill has double energy cost of atom and improves by a defensive skill, not a offensive where atom and assim have that.

Its not only about the amoun of energy it drains people, it is also about the side-effects of the skill



DARK SOUL OF HELL -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 17:50:27)

blitzex..... with ur logic of comparing skills and wanting to make all skills even we will end up with one class and also i can make a thread and post that bunker buster and cheap shot are more powerful then plasma bolt so plasma bolt should have a 25 % crit chance like the other two skills and super charge should reduce the enemy's rage .
You can't compare skills like that



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 18:10:53)

quote:

i can make a thread and post that bunker buster and cheap shot are more powerful then plasma bolt so plasma bolt should have a 25 % crit chance like the other two skills and super charge should reduce the enemy's rage

Uhm...those moves are actually nothing alike..
Plasma bolt has its own benefits, same as cheap shot.
Bunker isnt even alike cheap shot or plasma bolt since its in the 2nd row, you should then mention double strike.

And super charge / massacre and surgical also all have its own benefits, they are balanced with each other while still being different HOWEVER
assim is Op compared to other energy drain skills, not as the class specials.
Assim has way to much benefits compared to atom and emp, and thats why it needs to be nerfed



DARK SOUL OF HELL -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 18:29:31)

IT needs to be nerfed because it is OP not because it is OP in comparison with AS and EMP .
and the way i see it is that the skill will be fine if it don't improve with str , that would do it .
and btw y are u complaining on the OP assim if u switched to TM anyway :P



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/16/2013 18:31:12)

quote:

and btw y are u complaining on the OP assim if u switched to TM anyway :P

Because it's called not being biased and knowing what's OP and needs fixing/nerfing.



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