RE: Assimilation is OP now (Full Version)

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Sageofpeace -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:34:32)

^ you talk as if those build don't have a weakness they barely have any dex or tech most of the time a two hit kill on 2vs2


taken from design notes or patch
Assimilation
Now usable while at maximum Energy
Before Update: Drained 1-10 Energy giving back 50% of amount drained. Slight level scaling, no stat scaling.
After Update: Drains 3-12 Energy, giving back 100% of the amount drained. No level scaling, steals 1 extra Energy per 9 Strength
This skill had many issues, to the point of being nearly useless in most cases. It should now provide Tech Mages with a more reliable on-demand energy gain.

and he was been polite cuz the skill was useless



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:34:36)

@Trans and Sageofpeace
quote:

This skill had many issues, to the point of being nearly useless in most cases. It should now provide Tech Mages with a more reliable on-demand energy gain.


Nearly useless is what he called it so depending on the situation you are both right.

My lv 4 assim is currently stronger than the old level 10 assim which no skill should receive a buff of the that magnitude all at once



NDB -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:38:47)

quote:

^ you talk as if those build don't have a weakness they barely have any dex or tech most of the time a two hit kill on 2vs2


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you even read the whole post through??????? How does a caster mage not have any dex or tech?? THEY are the ones abusing it.



Sageofpeace -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:44:28)

^ so if they are what you call"abusing" their given stat to their choice in dex and requirement how in the world do they have enough point to spend in str and make assimilation a BUILD DESTROYER



NDB -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:48:14)

I DON'T BELIEVE THIS. How many times do we have to say that Strength scaling is not the problem. EVEN IF YOU DON'T TRAIN ON STRENGTH AT ALL, IT IS STILL 17. Besides, most Caster TMs do get some Strength to meet Plasma Bolt's requirement.



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:48:35)

Requirements are nothing more than band-aids that restrict skills at lower level. They don't fix the actual problem. Players will just train to meet the requirement.



Sageofpeace -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:51:55)

i just wanted to know for what build should ASSIMILATION be use? i tough the point of distributing point was to make your build fit your need



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:53:36)

Assimilation is useful with any build. Even with the fact it scales with Strength. There's an issue with the skill because it drains more EP from the enemy AND it was buffed up to give 100% of it back to you. If you put the EP return to say 25% (so if you drain 20 EP, you will get back only 5) then it will be fine. The problem is NOT higher amount that is being drained but the return which it gives that is being too high.



NDB -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:55:24)

They don't need more than 17 on assimilation because its already good enough. 9 Strength is also too much. Thats is why it is unbalanced-people don't need to train on strength or even max it to get it to be extremely effective. As for what build it should be used for, please actually read the posts we have been making.



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:58:01)

Lower the EP return to that of 25% and give scaling of 1 EP per 10 Strength (as opposed to 9; yes it will make a difference since it always scales slower) and keep everything else as it is. Remember that it deals damage and costs no Energy to use as opposed to other skills. And no other EP drain gives some of it back to you.



Sageofpeace -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:58:47)

which is why the skill is useful, five focus mage don't need assimilation the mage who need that are the one who hides behind their dx and tech hoping for reroute to fill the gap which is not doing right now.



NDB -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 17:59:37)

Yes. It's the return that needs to be fixed. By buffing Assimilation, it indirectly already buffed the return, so why did they have to make it 100%?



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 18:00:36)

The purpose of Assimilate was never to get Energy back. It did return 50% before but it drained so little that it wasn't efficient. Its purpose was to give some form of EP drain to TMs and this was good enough back in the day. Do you even read our posts..?



Sageofpeace -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 18:09:41)

since when are you the one to the decide what's the purpose of the skill as far as im concern the skill the description says"STRIKE AN ENEMY ABSORBING SOME OF THEIR ENERGY?unless you can find a post from one of the developer saying that the skill is meant for draining and not give it back ? and if it was for draining it should be just as good as emp or atom smasher? and please don't make reroute as in excuse for your explanation if you are giving a reason why the skill meant for draining? you know what would make my self feel better if you show me at least two build that are dominating with ASSIMILATION SHOW me.



NDB -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 18:15:36)

There is a difference between being OP and actually winning. For example, support merces used to be OP, but that didn't mean they had a good win ratio. IMO, that's the same case here. And why are you pushing the description of the skill and what developers say so much? It has nothing to do with the issue. We say what we think the skill is used for by our own experience. If you haven't seen it being used or don't use it yourself, you are in no position to be saying whether or not its OP or not.
quote:

unless you can find a post from one of the developer saying that the skill is meant for draining and not give it back ? and if it was for draining it should be just as good as emp or atom smasher?

Please. Read our posts. The draining is meant to be there, but it is much too effective. It should NOT be as good as EMP or Atom because it costs not energy, gives back energy, and deals damage.



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 18:16:47)

quote:

since when are you the one to the decide what's the purpose of the skill

... Because that was the initial intention of it. <_< Back when there were 3 classes, Tech Mages were the only ones who couldn't drain Energy hence why Assimilate was added as 12th skill. Mercs have received Blood Shield and BHs had their Shadow Arts. I'm not deciding anything, I'm stating facts.
quote:

unless you can find a post from one of the developer saying that the skill is meant for draining and not give it back

I don't believe there are even posts from 2010 on ED Forum. If it was to drain Energy then giving it back was almost like a bonus on top of it as incentive to train it. But yes, you know better. Any posts to back up what you're saying to be true?

May I ask you: Can you remove bias from here? I get the fact you're a TM but only because your skill WILL get nerfed, does not mean it shouldn't because you're one of them. Think how it affects other classes, not yourself.



Sageofpeace -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 18:24:52)

the thing is that i have use and that i seen few people using it and i don't see the harm that's is causing and i could make as many build as possible and don't see how in word the skill is OP just because is not in pair with similar skill in the other classes, which is what i feel that people are complaining about is not what the skill is doing but is how better it looks compared to emp and atom smasher.


and the reason im pushing it description of the skill is because trans is stating his opinion on what the purpose of the skill is as if THAT'S THE PURPOSE each player use the skill as they feel that benefit them


Trans^

each class has different skill to make up for what they don't have so comparing their skill is just not a good way to explain things, and i could say the same thing about you nerf anything that don't benefit your class,regardless whether am mage or not


YOU wouln't FIND ANY POST OF THEM ANYWAY CUZ THEIR NEVER WAS ONE ABOUT THEM STATING WHAT THE SKILL PURPOSE WAS

DUDE IS ON THE FIRST POST THE ONE MAKING THE THREAD?



NDB -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 18:26:49)

Since when did anyone mention anything about comparing it to EMP or Atom Smasher but yourself?



Trifire -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/17/2013 22:04:51)

ever since they buffed assimilate, I have like a 20:1 win rate with my tank mage. When I had a caster mage back when the EP wasn't nerfed, my win rate was 20:1. Also, since I have like 90 dex and tech on my tank mage, assimilate almost always hits and I have a lot of surplus mana. Before they buffed it my win rate was like 70%-75% and I had longer battles.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/18/2013 7:45:51)

I agree. Assimilation is blatantly overpowered. I fought a caster mage today, and he stole about 40 EP from me over the course of the battle with Assimilate. That's 40 EP that he regained, ON TOP of Reroute. That's ridiculous.



Sageofpeace -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/18/2013 7:54:24)

^ lol he took 40 Ep?1 turn 2 or 3 turn



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/18/2013 8:06:24)

Turn 1 and Turn 4, or 2 and 5, because it has 3 turn cooldown. As we've said, the issue is not higher EP drain but the return which is 100%. Atom can take away that with moderate Strength at Lvl 1, but it doesn't return EP and doesn't do damage. Whilst this is weaker, deals damage and returns it all.

quote:

each class has different skill to make up for what they don't have so comparing their skill is just not a good way to explain things, and i could say the same thing about you nerf anything that don't benefit your class,regardless whether am mage or not

So what if they have different skills? Skill is abuseable either way, regardless of the skill tree. Should we bring back old Super Charge because TMs suck? That SC only 1 hit KO'd your enemy on 3rd turn, so if you didn't kill by then, you were dead.
Also nerf something in my class that doesn't benefit us? If it doesn't benefit us then Devs can change the skill for a different one, just like Blood Shield was taken out for Adrenaline. We already had DA change which I was in favour of since early/mid Delta. I've had support of players on my balance suggestions since Gamma, so perhaps I do know what I'm saying. Nor it was biased towards any class.
quote:

YOU wouln't FIND ANY POST OF THEM ANYWAY CUZ THEIR NEVER WAS ONE ABOUT THEM STATING WHAT THE SKILL PURPOSE WAS

Says a Delta player. Go back to Beta and see why Assimilation was added. BHs and Mercs had EP drain, TMs were the only ones without one hence Assimilation was added as a 12th skill.

Bias in this thread is unbearable..



Sageofpeace -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/18/2013 8:15:13)

says a BETA PLAYER you are just making my point again which is that you and this players are not complaining about how well mage are doing with assimilation or how "OP" they become, you are just complaining about how APPEALING the skill looks compare to EMP AND ATOM SMASHER as you think they serve for the same purpose.



Ranloth -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/18/2013 8:22:43)

quote:

you are just complaining about how APPEALING the skill looks compare to EMP AND ATOM SMASHER as you think they serve for the same purpose.

<_< >_> Because neither of them drain EP right? Assimilation was given so TMs would have some sort of EP drain. I compared their power once to justify my point where it deals damage and is blockable, hence EP drained isn't as big. My issue is with the high return.

So I want it nerfed because it's useful for any player, rather than the fact it's broken (OP)? Bro, do you even balance? No wonder people disagree with you. I don't care if the skill is more appealing or not, it's OP on the basis that it returns ALL the Energy drained. That's what's ruining Assimilation, because it can drain a lot of EP and give it all back to you. And the return is absurd. That's they key problem. You seem to be purely trolling by contradicting what you've said and putting words in my mouth. Let's be serious here, changes will be made as per player's request and if Devs see it as necessary. It's very surprising that majority of players find it to be an overkill buff and then one disagrees. Guess who Devs will go with? Common sense.



JUSTICE IS MINE -> RE: Assimilation is OP now (3/18/2013 8:23:25)

says an ALPHA FOUNDER assimilation is very much OP and sometimes not :P



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