RE: Custom Classes - Extended (Full Version)

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Sir Caden -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (4/19/2013 14:06:42)

Mine will be the best when i say it will merk IT WILL

this is it
Hybrid Armor
Shadow Arts
Surgical Strike
Field Medic
EMP
Energy Shield
Malf
Artillery Strike
Stun Grenade
Berzerker
Plasma Bolt



EpicIsEpic -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (4/19/2013 15:12:51)

@above no way of regaining energy...
Someone emps u with -40 emp and you are scr... and
this is a great idea i just wonder why it doesn't have many supporters?



ScarletReaper -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (4/19/2013 18:19:05)

amazing idea! Get rid of the sheep jumping to the next op build and give free reign to creativity? YES PLEASE!



goldslayer1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (4/25/2013 3:42:49)

thanks for the support guys.

@epic
the build description he gave seems like he's going for mainly offensive/tanking. im guessing he'd also be 5 focus.



Sensei Chan -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (4/26/2013 11:02:02)

Supported This Would Shut The Complainers Up By Making Every Class Have A Custom Skill Tree All Classes Will Be Equal None Op Or Up.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/15/2013 20:06:00)

i wanted to expand on the ideas of lowering the number of skills in a skill tree as there would be more customization.
i also wanted to expand on the idea of duplicate skills.

ill show some of you guys some examples
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2240/customskilltree.png
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4568/customskilltree2.png

these are 2 samples i made today, what do u think?



Mother1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/15/2013 20:29:14)

While I like this idea, what is to say stop someone from copying the next OP skill tree? In beta everyone said it was the best, however I believe this was only because people were getting a feel for what they could do and truly didn't find anything that could dominate them all. However in later phases this came up and boom build copying came.

It would be the same thing all over again since as we all know creativity to the masses < W/L ratio. If it is a winning build the masses will copy and those who don't want to copy it and lose to it will complain and we will be back to square one yet again.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/15/2013 20:42:28)

quote:

However in later phases this came up and boom build copying came.

build copying has been a problem since as far back as alpha

heres a video (for the lolz) of 2 players in alpha, and one of them complains about his build being copied at 0:48
http://quietube6.com/v.php/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuWxzydJV2s
NOTE: contains some language.

but anyway, yeah its been a problem for a long time.



Stabilis -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/15/2013 21:43:57)

Mother1,

If we ever encounter an overpowered skill again (and I mean overpowered not overused), we should simply check if the attack (only attacks are ever deemed overpowered- this includes nerfer skills and stuns) possesses some form of deviation in damage from other attacks, and if so we lower how much damage it will do. Build copying will show what is overused but never ever shows what is overpowered and this is what we have to realize.



toopygoo -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/15/2013 23:01:55)

this wouldnt work. with this ability, 90% of competitive people would start pushing the same build because they can...
the last thing that keeps people in check for what they can and cant do, if the class difference.



Mother1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/15/2013 23:11:32)

@ depressed

my point of that post was that in the game Creativity < W/L ratio. The masses want to win and they don't care how they do it as long as they do it. If this means having to copy a build that they know works to get wins rather then experiment and get their can kicked then they will choose build copying over creativity.

Why do you think we see the same cookie cutter builds all the time? Because people want to win and they use what they know has given results. It is why we had strength merc at the beginning of omega, Support builds when support was super charged and now Strength support builds TM, Caster TM and a bunch of other cookie cutter builds.

Then those same people who don't want to use these builds but keep losing to them will once again complain and the staff will eventually nerf said build/skills.




Stabilis -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/15/2013 23:20:26)

EDIT: Toopygoo,

Not sure where the 90% comes from but I know for certain that 56.8% of all statistics are made up "on the spot".

Being more sincere, class specialism (the act of prohibiting skills to a single specific class) is only as diverse as the skills it is grouped with. Sure, Berzerker is balanced with Maul, Atom Smasher, Double Strike, and Hybrid Armor and such... but is it balanced with Reroute? What about Maul? No, or at least we do not think so. So if the Mercenary and Tactical Mercenary skill trees were ever altered, we would endanger balance because we do not balance skills: we balance classes. So we would never know how certain skills work in conjunction with another without custom skill trees. I feel as if I am missing something I had to say but oh well.

Mother1,

Right, but if we ever catch someone ranting about overused builds in PVP wanting for them to be nerfed we have to conquer them with intelligence. Nothing more I can say on the topic.



toopygoo -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/15/2013 23:30:38)

precisely, and yes i made up 90%, but i pretty much just added up how we have about 90% of players using the same 6 builds now... so they would all get the one super build afer.. (90% is an estimated figure)

and there would be no balance if you could make your won skill trees. it would be lopsided builds galore. imagine, if support builds got a hold of mineral armour, and energy shield and stuff... they would have the 80 damage multi, with the HUGE aux and rage, as well as 30 defense and 30 resistance.



CHELSEA ROX -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 3:41:33)

thats innovative but customising stats can creat a lot of OP builds and a lot of testing would be required for it
If the devs can balance this i would totally SUPPORT such an idea

@goldslayer1 can you please explain this:
- will there be only one class in which we can equip any primary and battle, or we still have the 3 basic classes and the skill tree changes is among them only?
like mercs and tlm
or bh and ch
or bm and tm?
will skills be changed within them or its just 1 class?



toopygoo -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 8:15:05)

and although i didnt mention this, because i was too busy being negative, i would too, very much like to see this. i just believe that it wouldnt work out because other people can be uncreative.
they wont settle for a second best build, for uniqueness, they will still charge to take the first place build



ND Mallet -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 9:28:24)

You may be able to balance the skills with this method but you'll never be able to balance the combinations, especially if the staff adds more skills for us to use. Your second tree you posted, goldslayer, is heavily strength based and would be a terror to fight. Smokescreen, Maul, Assimilation, DA and Massacre all in the same tree? Let's not even get on the topic of Bloodlust with all that damage.



Melbourne -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 10:27:28)

Yet maul requires a maul, massacre requires wrist blades, and assimilation requires a staff.

Therefore what you just said doesn't make much sense..



Ranloth -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 10:28:58)

Then that would make such skill tree impossible, thus limiting variety. Gold's idea would probably remove the weapon requirement so ND's point is still valid.



ND Mallet -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 10:31:03)

@mel Part of his suggestion was to make class weapon skills usable by all class weapons so you could use Maul with staffs, clubs or wrist blades but not swords. And I'm just using the skill tree he posted in a previous post. I don't see why he would make a skill tree you can't use half of.



Melbourne -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 10:45:54)

Ah, it seems I forgot to read the entire post. Yikes.

But removing weapon requirement would make every single weapon the same would it not? I love the idea but keep the weapon requirements...



ND Mallet -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 11:16:22)

@mel Except you still couldn't use swords to use all the skills on a tree.



Melbourne -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 11:30:47)

Well if maul, assimilation and massacre all required swords it would definitely devalue class based weapons

Edit: Wrong weapon type.



rayniedays56 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 11:39:41)

I support this with the assumption that certain skills wouldn't accompany other skills, like technician and smokescreen, assimilation and bloodlust, berserker and massacre yada yada.

However, I am a bit confused on the primary passives. Only 1? Because TLM at the moment has 2 primary passives. But I see where issues are involved.

Could you clarify also on th animations? I mean, we've seen cheap shot with a sword and berzerker with a staff and even overload with claws, but massacre with a sword? A staff? A maul???



Stabilis -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 11:40:59)

quote:

Smokescreen, Maul, Assimilation, DA and Massacre all in the same tree? Let's not even get on the topic of Bloodlust with all that damage.


The best I could do with that is something like this:

Bloodlust 5→10, Deadly Aim 5→10, Smokescreen 5→10, Maul 1→5, Assimilation 1→10, Massacre 1→10

The numbers representing skill levels. Due to stat requirements, stat improvisations, and energy costs- with the number of skill and stat points we have, it is something to reconsider. It is a damage buildout, and those are the skills that get nerfed.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/16/2013 16:51:33)

SUPPORTED Why? Strategy,Unique builds, balance between players.



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