RE: Custom Classes - Extended (Full Version)

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Xendran -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/17/2013 8:58:38)

I'll go over your list quickly with a few ideas. I'll make a new post when i'm done, won't take very long.



Stabilis -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/17/2013 9:00:15)

Dark Devil,

Combinations do not matter. There are much more than a billion skill tree combinations that can be made with 43 different skills and Field Medic. I still remember the equation from high school for combinations without order without repetition:

n! / (r! (n- r)!)

N is 43, the number of viable skills to choose. R is 11, the number of skills in a skill tree excluding Field Medic. So the number of possible skill trees is:

5, 752, 004, 349

So there are 5 billion skill trees with 43 different skills. And you want us to balance combinations? You know how time consuming that would be? Balancing a set of skills (1→44) happens in a week to 2 weeks time, but if you want us balance combinations we basically have to repeat the process 5 billion times. We will all be dead and gone by then. This is why we balance skills individually within the same categories. We balance ultimates with ultimates, stuns with stuns, buffs with buffs, etc. This is a very careful process that concerns only 44 different articles.

And please note that balance is extremely focused on what gives someone an advantage so→ what makes someone more likely to win so→ more damage output (since the goal of a battle is reduce the enemy's health to 0). All in all we are trying to balance the skills that deal damage so no one has better potential to outdamage. This includes weapons too. And stats. We frankly just do not have the time to concentrate on every little group of skills used together. Is this more clear?

quote:

tree tree combinations


I surprise myself everyday.



Xendran -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/17/2013 9:16:56)

*Anything with a star is not yet implemented, but basic.
Group Medic is an AoE heal
Tactics is a support buff
Sabotage is a support nerf

Resource Conversion: 1
Field Medic
Group Medic*

Resource Gain: 1
Frenzy
Assimilation (MODIFIED)
Static Charge

Resource Depletion: 1
EMP Grenade
Atom Smasher
Assimilation (MODIFIED)

Passive: 1
Reroute
Adrenaline
Bloodlust
Hybrid Armor
Mineral Armor
Plasma Armor

Buff: 1
Technician
Reflex Boost
Field Commander
Tactics*

Nerf: 1
Smoke Screen
Intimidate
Malfunction
Sabotage*

Shield: 1
Blood Shield
Energy Shield
Defense Matrix
Shadow Arts

Multi: 1
Plasma Rain
Multi Shot
Artillery Strike

Ultimate: 1
Supercharge
Massacre
Surgical Strike

Stun: 1
Maul
Overload
Stun Grenade
Plasma Grenade

DoT: 1
Toxic Grenade
Venom Strike

Melee Attacks: 1
Double Strike
Bludgeon
Cheap Shot
Berzerker

Ranged Attacks: 1
Fireball
Plasma Cannon
Deadly Aim
Bunker Buster
Plasma Bolt



Assimilation now does: 

Assimilation - Steals a percentage of the targets current EP. Deals 85% strike damage.

12% of energy stolen
14% of energy stolen
16% of energy stolen
18% of energy stolen
20% of energy stolen
22% of energy stolen
24% of energy stolen
26% of energy stolen
28% of energy stolen
30% of energy stolen

Note that assimilation is in two categories for a reason. If you choose it in either, the other category becomes locked.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/17/2013 9:29:08)

quote:

Note that assimilation is in two categories for a reason. If you choose it in either, the other category becomes locked.

this one is interesting.

quote:

Passive: 1
Reroute
Adrenaline
Bloodlust
Hybrid Armor
Mineral Armor
Plasma Armor

scrapped deadly aim?

and assuming adrenaline stays the same or something similar to what it is now for rage gaining, who would pick it over bloodlust/reroute or a passive armor?

as for new skills that could be added, what do u think about skills that have trade offs
like an ultimate that deals more damage or costs less but gives energy or increase defenses to the enemy after using an ultimate on them?
doesn't have to be an ultimate it could be just a regular skill.

or perhaps an attack similar to frenzy where u get hp for attacking, but instead of having an energy cost, it gives energy to the enemy when u use it.



Xendran -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/17/2013 9:40:15)

Deadly aim is in ranged actives. SA is in shields as an active.
As for tradeoffs, yes, i have hundreds of skills written out for this game that include things like that, but i didn't include anything in my list other than very basic additions.

As for adrenaline: I don't even think it should exist in the tree. I think it should be converted to flat 15% extra rage gain and made into a core.

EDIT:
Here's an example of an ultimate. This was designed specifically for mercenaries, however. 

Terminate
Warmup: 3
Cooldown: 3
Hasta la vista, baby.
Hits: 16 (15 Minigun 5% Each, 1 Grenade Launcher 25%)
Damage Type: Same as sidearm


Fully drains your rage meter. Deals 12% of your current Rage Points as physical damage.

Scales With: Technology
Identical to Surgical Strike in scaling.



Necromantres -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/17/2013 15:30:28)

Xendran i like how that skill sounds...



omega fighter -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/21/2013 20:20:40)

i just realized some combos can't be done because of the weapon requirements



goldslayer1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/21/2013 20:35:50)

@omega fighter
from the original post
quote:

as for Claws/Clubs/Staffs and Swords
skills that are "class" specific will remain specific.
so plasma bolt could be used with a maul, claws and staffs. but not with a sword.



CodexC -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/23/2013 21:38:12)

I adore this idea but I don't think it will ever happen simply because, people will do this

pick a stat
Pick skills that improve with that stat
Spam that stat -_-

EG,

Artillery strike, defencne matrix, malf, SA, or adreline (SUPPORT)

Smoke, Bunker buster, Bloodlust, supercharge , plasma armor, plasma gernade (TECH)

bezerker, atom smasher, frenzy, maul, and reroute would be crazy (STR)

Mineral armor, multi shot, stun gernade, energy sheild (Dex)

Although the last one isn't as crazy



goldslayer1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/23/2013 23:38:35)

quote:

Mineral armor, multi shot, stun gernade, energy sheild (Dex)

why would u have a defense passive shield on a dex "spam" build?



CodexC -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/24/2013 0:07:16)

@ goldslayer Tanking purposes its gonna be impossible to do more than 3 dmg to someone with dex spam and mineral armor. Also consider you could be smoked by tech abuser



goldslayer1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/24/2013 0:14:30)

@codexc
it would be much more beneficial to use a resistance passive shield if ur really going to spam that much dex.

overload would also be much better for a dex build, as it has the same stun chance as stun grenade, but more damage.



CodexC -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/24/2013 0:21:29)

Ah ha Good point! But you see how custom classes can be abused? As fun as it is and as badly as I want to be able to build a class it would be support rule all cause when it comes to abuse figting abuse whoever goes first wins D:



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/24/2013 0:56:26)

codexc brought up a good reason why it should not happen, as everyone has said before, it would not change or improve balance, and may make it worse, a nightmare.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/24/2013 1:11:49)

quote:

Ah ha Good point! But you see how custom classes can be abused?

u know, i really dont like that term "abuse"

seems more of a way for people to justify their incompetence.
what different does it make (under a balanced stat/skills system) if i have 100 stats into dex or tech. its still 100 stats.

the point of this change is to allow the players to have their skill trees be based on their playstyle.
along with their playstyles (tanking/offense, etc) skills can vary.

not allowing players to have X skill because they can 'abuse" it with a dex stat, only segregates the current classes which have no skill combos when some other classes do. this is why classes are flawed, and cant be balanced.

quote:

as everyone has said before, it would not change or improve balance, and may make it worse, a nightmare.

first u said everyone says it would not change or improve, then continue to say it may make it worse.
which one is it?

and no, everyone did not say that. theres been several who gave compliments to this suggestion.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/24/2013 1:25:14)

quote:

first u said everyone says it would not change or improve, then continue to say it may make it worse.
which one is it?
it may make it worse, big difference.

quote:

and no, everyone did not say that. theres been several who gave compliments to this suggestion.

maybe they just didn't think hard enough, there are many flaws with this just like the current balance so what's the point?



Mother1 -> RE: Custom Classes - Extended (5/24/2013 1:38:41)

As I said before while I like this idea, unless we actually have balance this idea would be just like most of the balance updates (AKA Band aids put over wounds that need stitches)

I say this because in the beginning it won't be as bad as it is now because people will actually get creative and test the waters (AKA the alpha and beta phases of epic duel) However eventually when people find the builds that can dominate the others People will jump to that build and those who are beaten by this build will complain and then the nerfs to skills will begin once again. It will eventually turn up and become what we have now, with the exception of no one having to spend a lot since class changes will not be needed to get OP skill trees.

So my thought on it. With good balance yes this would work well. As balance is now it will be a temporary band aid at best.



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