Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (Full Version)

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Cyber Dream -> Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:01:55)

Lets just face the fact here, if there wasnt so much build copying, noone would be coming to the fourms crying about OPed builds then causing them to get nerfed.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:16:57)

how are you going to solve it? hiding builds is not an option since then, only a few players would get to dominate 1v1 with their OP builds, also many players likes to show off, so they would give out their build through social media or the forums.



Xendran -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:17:05)

Flat out wrong.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:18:36)

even though i agree with you but atleast explain and expand your answer rather than saying
quote:

Flat out wrong.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:18:37)

i wouldn't say its completely why, but it does have a role in it IMO.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:29:49)

Possibly. I mean, if infernal android was only available to varium players or available only as a promo, then it definitely wouldn't have received as much attention as it currently has now.

Some skills don't even deserve to be nerfed, but the player base just whines because they don't bother finding their own solution such as thinking up a counter build, and they just complain and wait till the devs are forced to nerf it.



DanniiBoiixD -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:30:27)

How many people using a build has NOTHING to do with it being OP. The title of this thread is completely invalid.



ND Mallet -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:35:41)

@trizz Whether one person uses the build, or 10,000 use it, has no effect on how powerful the build is. An OPd build is OPd regardless of how many people use it. Not many people used the old Supercharge build from Alpha judging by some threads I found in the old ED forums(one topic by the guy who made the build complaining that one guy copied his build) but it was still OPd.



Mother1 -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:38:32)

@ exploding penguin

I can agree with this to a degree. Most of the time it is people who run into the build that has an advantage over them, and because they can't beat that build they want it nerfed. But the infernal android I can agree with the masses especially when it first came out.

I still remember when I was facing a focus 5 Tactical merc who had 7 health against me who had 90 health, I am thinking I got this match in the bag because there was nothing he could use to take me out and he could heal either. But then he uses rage with the infernal android's laser and it did 45 45 with a crit without the infernal intridictor and I was like WTH?!

Also even if they made the bot varium in delta unless it was just a war spoil that would go rare after the war when omega started it would have became non varium just like the baby yeti and assault bot Energy version did.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 20:41:59)

quote:

Whether one person uses the build, or 10,000 use it, has no effect on how powerful the build is. An OPd build is OPd regardless of how many people use it. Not many people used the old Supercharge build from Alpha judging by some threads I found in the old ED forums(one topic by the guy who made the build complaining that one guy copied his build) but it was still OPd.

whether its OPed or not, thats a different issue.

but it does affect it.

if you make a build that can win 9/10
and then the rest of the player base copies it, the efficiency of your own build goes down because of your build.

so now its not really ND mallet vs darth vader (lolz just example)
now its ND mallet vs ND mallet with the same builds.

your build efficiency just went down the pipe (if its OP, then its a different issue) because of the masses using ur own build.
so it doesn't allow for true players to test their skills vs someone else's because that other person has your same build.



Stabilis -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/1/2013 21:02:28)

PVP is imbalanced because of overpowered attacks. This attracts players, because offence is the only path to winning, but with more skills added the issue would be miniscule.

We should accept it, EpicDuel is all about attacking.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/2/2013 17:47:20)

The number of people using a build does matter.

There are OP'd builds, and then there are OP'd builds.

There are builds that are genuinely overpowered and fundamentally unbalanced, like the Alpha Supercharge build. And then there are builds that are simply challenging and go unchallenged because most people don't/can't use their brains, deemed overpowered by the sheer number of people using that build and the amazing number of people failing to counter it. Going by historical observation, most 'OP'd' builds fall under the latter category.

The problem with EpicDuel is that rather than adjusting to trends by looking for effective counters, as per the free market, the player base is mostly just screaming at the devs for government intervention.

And no, build copying isn't why the game is so unbalanced. It contributes to the perception, which affects effective balance, but not to the mechanical balance itself. I'd say the game is fairly balanced, actually.



Cyber Dream -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/3/2013 16:35:30)

Ok, lemme just get this out there. Many people declare a build is oped when a numerous of people start using it. Correct right? Most of the time they know nothing about the build, but just because its very stragetic and powerful it tends to get copied. When I said *Overpowered* I wasnt reffering to the build it self, well in some way I was but i really wasnt. Like I said a build is justified overpowered when alot of people start using it. If a couple people has it then its fine. But when it gets to the point when you change classes just to have that build then something has to be done. The majority of people who are the same classes has the same build, did creativity leave epicduel? I don't know how but something has to be done about build copying. Its the only way epicduel can move foward in balance.



koudou -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 11:28:48)

supported



sk1tzo2020 -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:00:52)

supported but only to a certain degree. I think stats, focus, primary, secondary and robot attack dmg should be visible, but I think skills should be covered. Would bring the element of surprise back to ED too.

Ps. with stat abuse characters EG. 130 support and is a merc or TLM, you kinda already know they got a full arty strike, or has he? he might have a maxed poison grenade and a powerful aux.



Ranloth -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:02:11)

And how many times have the Devs posted that covering skill trees will not be done since it'd result in blind battles instead of strategy. It'd be harder to copy, yes, but even harder to fight. Great suggestion. >.>



sk1tzo2020 -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:04:13)

blind battles? how you work that out? you see their stats, experienced players will work out the skills the opponent is using most the time but would also stop build copying.

P.s no need for sarcasm.



Ranloth -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:08:27)

Not everyone is experienced. What about Focus 5? From stats, you will understand that they rely on the bot.. Their skills? High Heal or none? Relying on Ultimate (such as Mass for BHs) or SA + Smoke with no Ultimate? It's already been said by Devs that covering skill trees will not happen.



Xendran -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:10:47)

If the game was balanced build copying wouldn't matter, because there wouldnt be ridiculously OP builds walking around everywhere.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:11:06)

quote:

It's already been said by Devs that covering skill trees will not happen.

well they should really re-consider.



Ranloth -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:15:51)

Because? Same points are being raised, nothing has changed. Perhaps it was already said that it will NEVER happen? Only because you think it's a great idea, it doesn't have to be. I think it'd be great for BMs to get old SC back (3 hits) and Reroute + BL in one (and double the power), but is it really that good? Nope.

Besides, Xendran also raises a valid point. This is only an issue due to imbalance. Nothing else.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:18:10)

quote:

Besides, Xendran also raises a valid point. This is only an issue due to imbalance. Nothing else.

he does bring a good point doesn't he?
but notice the big "If"?
game has been around since 2009 and they never had balance between their classes.
i just dont think they can balance it unless they pull in some serious work.

and build copying isn't exactly the best environment for battles.
do u like to virtually fight urself every single time? because at that point are u fighting another player, or are u fighting urself?



Ranloth -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:19:49)

Notice the "if". Right. Notice the bit where you use your own opinion as back up and Devs have already said the reasons. You have NO proof that this will stop build copying. It'd make the battles harder since they'd be unpredictable. What good does that do for balance? None.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:22:39)

quote:

You have NO proof that this will stop build copying.

so not allowing others to see ur build wont stop them from copying? how will he know what to copy?

i guess i dont have proof that 2 + 2 = 4 either huh?



Xendran -> RE: Build copying is why the game is so *unbalanced* (5/9/2013 15:37:16)

Build hiding promotes even more luck, as you have to get lucky and guess what your opponent has.



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