Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (Full Version)

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Xendran -> Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 1:21:57)

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/power-creep



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 3:06:10)

That video explains the issue very nicely.



DarkDevil -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 4:19:45)

cores ain't expensive, 2 cores are about 3 enhances on an item while 2 cores can add more than 3 enhances.

edit: since none has posted , enhances opened the door of ppl being OP letterly while back in delta you could see ppl with 95 hp and over 60 attack while still have 40+ defences and having a fair amount of support or ppl could get focus 5 and dump in hp and enhance items till the point they become invincable.

this is just comment on topic but i donno about the content. it doesn't make sense [&:]

and is posting a vid with the rules ? i think its against especially in such place.



Mysterion. -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 4:57:23)

Posting links of vids is allowed, depending on the content of it.

Sadly, i cannot watch the vid now, will watch it later.
Short epitome of the content, anyone?



DarkDevil -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 9:19:07)

it seems like a derpish movie or something i don't think it has to do anything with the topic.



Khalix -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 9:35:01)

Watched the lovely video.

In summary, it's bad to make the latest updates trump the older ones as the older content that had been invested on would turn obsolete, leading players who invested time on obtaining the old content to quit.

The supposed solutions were to either make sure new content is debatable to the older ones or to make new content exclusive to a specific expansion so that the use of new content will not make older content obsolete.

---

Your proposed solution?



Snaipera -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 9:37:14)

@darkdevil ^One of three things must be up with you.

Either EpicDuel is your first encounter with the gaming world and you're completely unaware of every other TCG, MMO, RPG or any other type of game.
You skipped your English lessons, hence you're now unable to fully comprehend the actual facts in the video.
Or you're in complete denial of the fundamental truths that were very well explained in this "derpish movie or something".

____

On a different topic, the EpicDuel team seems to have noticed the Power Creep and that's why they brought all the weapons down to the same stats. However, customization in builds requires variety . Here they decided to introduce Skill cores. So far, the newly introduced cores are not superior to the original ones, however as time passes, the originally-released ones will surely be rendered useless by the new ones, provided they will harder to acquire, you pay real cash for them or simply time has taken its toll :)


_____

My proposed solution is very simple. Release a server with no limitations, original releases of classes and no requirements for skills. Give the players freedom to enjoy the game. Of course this server could fit up to 200 people, so it's not very massive and the other part of the game will still be unaffected by the appearance of it. Balance in the original servers should be a priority, however this fun-2-play servers will let players enjoy a mixture of old-time epicduel mixed with the new releases of the team[:)]



Ranloth -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 9:44:19)

Your proposed solution is as good as useless for the ED Team, Snaipera. Not trying to be blunt but the suggestion of having a separate server for older phases or different type of game would mean a whole new game having to be 'copied and pasted', which costs money due to server costs and you would not have your original character on both servers. They'd be two separate games. Twice the cost (server wise) and not necessarily bringing in twice as much profit to upkeep it. Not mentioning updates for both servers being even more time consuming. It was already said to be a straight no when it comes to these type of suggestions, multiple times at that since people suggested it over and over and ED Team has replied to these kind of threads in the past with the same answer.



Khalix -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 9:48:04)

So, any ideas coming from the lovely player base of ED?

If the staff do something on their own, players would backlash due to the "Radical" and "Sudden" developments.



Snaipera -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 10:01:04)

@Trans

Hey dude, I'm aware of the server costs and the effort that is needed. But you know that you can't rush anything and expect it to be a success. Updates can just be copy-pasted codewise onto the different server, so this shouldn't be a problem. The money problem is not mine to solve, but if you want to run a successful business and expect all your customers to be happy, you gotta open the bag of gold around your neck[:D] . I do believe that this will make old-timers, such as myself, enjoy the game and even cure a little bit of my nostalgia, as well as give new players a glance of what epicduel used to be. Who knows, the devs might consider doing that in the future [:)]



Stabilis -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 10:06:43)

quote:

Updates can just be copy-pasted codewise onto the different server,so this shouldn't be a problem.


What exactly do you mean by this?



Khalix -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 10:19:24)

quote:

Updates can just be copy-pasted codewise onto the different server, so this shouldn't be a problem.


*Facepalm*

Your proposed idea was to get an older phase into a separate server.
Now you intend to implement updates to an otherwise obsolete version so that it would be "Up-to-date".

This defeats the purpose.

Oh, and it isn't that simple.



zion -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 10:32:59)

@Xendran
Based on the video, the old Varium system (frostbane, enhancements etc.) was pure power creep - so the current system must be better, right?
The core prices seem fine to me. I think what you meant are OP cores that only come in promo packs! As long as the promo cores are different and not more powerful, the game should shed its p2w image.



Ranloth -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 10:39:44)

zion, that's what happens if you compare promo cores to in-game cores. We were told that more advanced cores will come in the future (at a higher price) so the likes of Azrael's Will are advanced cores while all the in-game ones are still basic. Kinda unfair comparison here since we don't have much to compare it with.



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 10:44:34)

That presentation was quite good ;O.

Same thing with enhancements in ED. People brought it to get powerful and Powerful, then eventually ED decided to take it out making alot of players leave since there weapons were useless without enhancements. Power creep! ;o.

Same thing with similar cores also like frost shards and Frost destroyers core. Same thing but frost shards is better, which made the frost destroyer/slayer useless. Power creep ;o. Even the meteor attacks.

Also the azrael's borg effect and azrael aux effect. Aux is much better since you can use another bot making the borg useless. Power creep ;o.

Egg zookas being the best in the game now they have made everything the same. Still not even abit of stats for egg zooka? Power creep ;o making it the best weapon to the least weapon.

Only thing they have balanced In my opinion is the fact that IA and gamma bot were argubly that IA was stronger, but I hardly know anyone using that bot now.

And soon the azrael will's will have a power creep also since next year everyone will be able to get it. People who have it know that in a year in advanced this weapon will be available to everyone including non variums.

Also comparing between non varium and varium. ED has always made varium with a slight advantage but in Omega it is quite the same since non variums can buy any varium weapon before they like and mostly everything. Once they have made that decision, alot of players have left because 'Whats the point of paying for the game if both will be the same?''. Power creep ;o



Mondez -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 10:45:05)

@Snaipera
You have not ever run a server before have you? What Trans states is true plus you say copy and paste the old server code is easy? It's a lot different and costly than you think.

It's an idea that would cause more time constraints with the devs and more coding to be placed in. We are not even sure if the devs still even have the old coding for that matter.



Khalix -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 10:47:58)

Let's take an example of a lovely "Basic" and "Advanced" core.

Lucky Strike - (Regular Weapon) - 2% Bonus per connecting hit
Lucky Strike - (Celtic Weapon) - 7% Bonus per connecting hit

Running on assumptions here.



Ranloth -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 10:58:14)

Actually, both are basic, Khalix. All in-game ones are basic, including Lucky Strike. The difference is there due to Lucky Strike being a promo before and the fact it's on a Sword (+ used to be a promo).



Khalix -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 11:04:35)

Are we supposed to expect core tiering, then?



Q...Q -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 11:14:21)

If anyone watched the movie

It all come to a conclusion that you guys should play League of Legends instead of wasting time.



ReinVI -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 11:40:56)

@ darkdevil ~ yeah that 'derpish movie' made more sense then any of your posts so >.>

On topic~ yeah I would have to say that little video pretty much summarized most online games including ED from what I've experienced in ED it's gone like...
New fantastic promo item with xxx stats blah blah... 1 week later New ever BETTER! weapon with blah blah stats... then omega came and well at least things balanced out with
no weapon being better than the last ( only the cores that suddenly made some gear/ builds way op ) but yeah hope the devs watch that video they might learn something and in turn
well turn this game around from it's current direction towards the morgue.

on a side note this video is another by the same group and here you go it's on player skill~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6fVHZFjnmA



Xendran -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 12:23:27)

quote:

@Xendran
Based on the video, the old Varium system (frostbane, enhancements etc.) was pure power creep - so the current system must be better, right?
The core prices seem fine to me. I think what you meant are OP cores that only come in promo packs! As long as the promo cores are different and not more powerful, the game should shed its p2w image.


Yes, the original varium system was pretty bad in terms of power creep as well.
And when i say expensive cores i mean those 50 dollar ones like Azrael and Exile/Legion strike (which are crazy powerful), and back when it was OP, spreadfire.
If these super expensive cores keep making others obsolete (Azrael's Will is just ridiculous compared to energy shot), people without them won't even want to compete.



Mysterion. -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 12:45:47)

quote:

and Exile/Legion strike (which are crazy powerful)

The weapons with these cores can actually be bought in-game, Xendran, you are not forced to buy the Promo Package.



Ranloth -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 12:47:52)

quote:

and Exile/Legion strike (which are crazy powerful)

quote:

(which are crazy powerful)

quote:

crazy powerful

quote:

powerful

No.. They are like Meteor Cores with +2 bonus damage on opposing alignment which barely makes them on par with Jack-o-Fire or Thorn Assault.



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Why enhancements failed, and expensive cores are doing the same thing (6/3/2013 14:58:32)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWFzFsHc75U

^^ Same person but its about what makes a good game tutorial.



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