RE: posion robot (Full Version)

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santonik -> RE: posion robot (6/22/2013 11:57:13)

@Mother1
I dont care if something is overused if that is balanced.

Yes it is affective against class cannons. Use bot round 1 and try heal 1-2 times. poison affect doing damage every round. This way class cannon taking 1heavy damage.

I cant explain accurately. Because every class cannon play different ways and different stats.
Basic idea use poison but wisely. Dont let them kill you so quikly. Poison is too high damage. No matter who is enemy.

Bot build is normally high technology. No matter what bot is.

Main purpose is fix this poison (bot) equals others damage. Still this is very affective tanks. This drop damage too against class cannons.
I dont want destroy this totally. I like this bot idea(poison). But this is too affective now.





GearzHeadz -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 13:39:07)

My responses to the question "Why do you use poison bot?"
(Note 1: I will record every match and the players' responses to the previous question)
(Note 2: I will put a star by the player name that are TCL merc who use poison on their first turn and then frost shards on their second)
*DeVast TaTor: For win. Its OP
*...COBRA...: Dunno, OP
Duelmaster Janier: Oh, this is one of em OP poison/loop heal builds
*Imagine Dragon: Cuz you know its OP

Isn't that funny? The users even think that's OP. Those are the most recent players I fought against during the war that would answer me when I asked.



Ranloth -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 13:58:38)

What players think doesn't mean it's necessarily true. That's why balance shouldn't be run on opinions since these vary for different people thus ending up being biased. People still fail to say how the Bot is OP. Not on glass-cannons, semi-useful on average builds and useful against Heal-looping builds/Tanks (i.e. Casters, Mercs, etc.). It's not always useful, that's the flaw of Botanical Hazard.

Now, look at the majority of players. Who are they? Average and Tank builds hence why Botanical Hazard is useful. Then there are builds in-between average and glass cannons (+ glass cannons themselves) and Poison is useless unless it comes from Venom strike since it takes your weapon's damage so it isn't as bad + it's much stronger.



GearzHeadz -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 21:27:01)

Botanical Hazard is almost always useful.



Ranloth -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 21:30:37)

Almost. That's not always. It's useless on glass cannons which do exist whilst every other Bot will take advantage of it because it means higher damage dealt, which Botanical Hazard cannot do because it does fixed 3 damage and DoT takes few turns to take full effect.



GearzHeadz -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 21:33:01)

Inform me on what a glass cannon is.



Ranloth -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 21:37:07)

A build that deals high damage and takes in high damage. An example is Strength/Support TM which has very low defences. Other one is Support Mercs which have very low defence and passive Armor to bump it up a little.



GearzHeadz -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 21:41:59)

Thank you.
But all players shouldn't have to become glass cannons to be able to resist a single weapon.
And Mother1's "solution" to having a high heal so solve it. Most players use frost shards after using poison to drain your energy so you cant heal it away. Even if you had a high heal, that would quickly drain your energy, plus the fact that the poison would be ready to use again before you can heal it away.
I'm simply offering an adjustment to the bot to make it more balanced for all users of the game.
Let it retain its damage, just make it a one time use and invulnerable to heal away. Most bots' specials are a one time use only.



Ranloth -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 21:51:15)

Who says about resisting? I'm just saying that the Bot isn't always useful and neither it is OP. It's useless on low defences/high HP builds and more effective on tanks due to their defences. Other Bots will have effects and deal damage based on defence, being more effective as the defence goes down but useful regardless.

You're trying to fix something that doesn't need fixing. Whole cleanse is there for you to use it. If you get your Energy drained, well, sucks to be you. If you see someone use the Bot, either go on with your strategy or try to preserve Energy to keep Healing to cleanse the Poison. If you know it's gonna be drained (look at their skills), Heal asap, so your Energy won't be drained and Poison left as it is.

One time per use? You're giving it a drastic nerf and basically cheating the players who have purchased it since it's a major change, not a minor one. All Bots' specials are one time only because they can NOT be countered. How can you counter Yeti's Chomp? Your weapons are gone, you can't. How can you counter IA's high damage? You can't because it's gonna be high regardless. This is the same case with Azrael Borg and Assault Bot - Shields and debuffs are re-useable hence why the effects are also. Poison can be Cleansed thus the Bot is 100% counterable. Whether the fight drags on and your EP is gone, that is NOT the problem with the Bot. End the battle as soon as possible, simple as. This is NOT the problem with the Bot but your build or just the match overall (tank vs. tank).



GearzHeadz -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 22:11:10)

You're still implying that I have one build to counter this with. That isn't exactly balanced.

It isn't a drastic nerf. While the bot would be at its highest it could easily deal 32 damage. Comparing to most bots that have to deal with breaking through defenses like you said, that is still very good guaranteed damage output.



Ranloth -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 22:15:28)

Heal is universal, anyone can counter it. Whether you have Energy for Heal or not, that's not the problem with the Bot. Longer battles are a subject to your build and your opponent's - the shorter the battle, the less time for the Bot to take effect.

It is a drastic nerf. Poison was made to be cleansed, with no exceptions, hence why Poison moves have received a buff when the change was made. It's debatable which Bot is better, and that's how it should remain. Focus had a nerf, Poison was stronger before and nerfing it further isn't needed. The only reason players complain is crushing through tanks. That's what Poison is made for - defensive builds. Hazard takes time to have full effect and can be cleansed before it does. Dealing 3 damage on the initial hit makes it quite difficult to use since you can time it poorly and waste it.



GearzHeadz -> RE: posion robot (6/23/2013 22:36:28)

There is obviously no validating my opinions and ideas to you people so I shall end the debate and hope that someone with a higher regard than us reads this and finds my reasons to have some logic to them and takes it into consideration, its been a fun debate boys and girls, I bid you good-times.



ansh0 -> RE: posion robot (6/24/2013 2:14:38)

This bot is just utter bullcrap.

It can be reused, does a crapton of poison damage(7-8) for FREE.

How are you supposed to counter this?

You heal?

BAM your opponent uses it again.


It needs to be limited to a one time use.

Bunny special is 1 time use when this OP bot is unlimited use?

Yeti special is 1 time use, Bio borg is 1 time use then why is this unlimited use?



DARK SOUL OF HELL -> RE: posion robot (6/24/2013 4:19:55)

Here's the thing :
I do agree with the fact that this bot is OP NO DOUBT . BUT on the other hand making his special a 1 time use isn't the right way to balance it cause in that case u can simply heal.
i do suggest that this bot can be used only 2 times and can be countered by heal and generator .
i know what u'll say : what's the purpose of that ? on the first time u heal the second u use generator .
I believe that 2 time use will give the user more opportunity to use it wisely .
And if u see that 2 time use is too much :
maybe if someone uses the bot on u and do like 2/4 turns and then u counter it he can use it again but in this case it will do poison for only 2 turns . Meaning it is 1 time use but those 4 turns can be done separately ( and the robot actually does dmg on the special one time only cause if it did 3 dmg like 3 times ( if the user used it 3 times ) that's a 9 dmg )
character



Mother1 -> RE: posion robot (6/24/2013 9:05:33)

@ Ansh0

Bio borg can be used more then once just like the Assault bot, gamma bot, and Azreal's borg.

Also why do you think they made this bot multi use? Because field medic can cure poison. Of this bot was one time use with field medic curing it, people would just cure it and boom the bot's special is gone and didn't help.

Also Ansh0 the bot does 7-8 poison damage because everyone who uses it is a focus 5 tech spammer (which powers up focus and robot damage) or a tech spammer (robot damage) No one else uses the bot. Also It is extremely effective because there are only two builds being used high HP glass cannon or Low HP tank. Since more people are using low HP tank (which is what poison works best on) this is why it is so effective.

Making the bot one time use isn't the right idea because guess what poison is curable. All you need to do is cure it and boom the bot is now worthless. What need to be done is have the game actually fixed so more builds besides tank build and glass cannon be used.



DarkDevil -> RE: posion robot (6/24/2013 14:43:58)

i think the best idea is to give it a warmup of 3 turns so whoever use it will have to wait untill you heal instead of just using it on the first turn then again when you heal.
those 3 turns will make it of less use in 1vs 1 so instead of using it 2 to 3 times youll use it once or twice a max while in 2 vs 2 the heals will be more so 3 turns wont actually hurt when the fight wont take less than 10 turns at least.



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