allowing %'s to reach 0 (Full Version)

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toopygoo -> allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 15:51:13)

it was mentioned earlier today in a thread in GD, that
quote:

some people assume that if your dex is high enough e.g. 30-36, and theirs is 20-24, they cannot block you. this is not true [OWTTE]


i say let the percents reach 0. if youre build is designed to stop attacks from being successful, or to stop them from blocking your attacks, then let them reach 0%.

this would allow 1 thing to be certain at least in the game.

these silly "possibilities" make calculations close to impossible because somehow, in ED even a 0.025% chance can be way too high.

any thought why this should be or shouldn't be implemented?



King Helios -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 15:55:20)

It should be possible if ED makes % dropping higher when something falls below a certain % (I was thinking 3%)



toopygoo -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 15:57:29)

can you give any kind of calculation example for that? i cant seem to picture it [:)]



xGreen Warriorx -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 15:57:41)

The thread you mentioned in GD argues against taking luck out of the game. Some luck is needed to give players fighting against higher lvled opponents a chance, and to make battles more interesting and fun in some cases. You shouldn't go into a battle and immediately know who is going to win just because they're a higher lvl.

quote:

these silly "possibilities" make calculations close to impossible because somehow, in ED even a 0.025% chance can be way too high.

It shouldn't be possible to completely predict the outcome of a battle based on a few calculations.
Also, there isn't a .025% chance for anything. There is a limit to how low your chances to block, deflect, and crit can be.



Bloodpact -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 15:58:02)

But just dropping the minimal a little lower (not to 0 ) was
enlightened to me by Trans that the even lower possibility
of these luck factors happening would cause a larger rage
when they occurred.


Edit: to Green? was it

It's not taking out luck factors it's reducing unneeded luck factors
like 1% crit minimal which serve no purpose other then pure
luck that is angering the population. it should be minimal 0% or
5% with the proper core.



DarkDevil -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 15:58:38)

well i remember it was 2% at least and its really fine to me as a bounty , althought sometimes 2% is too much especially when you are to finish somone in a 2 vs 1 fight so you lose the game cus of 2%.
i'd say better to erase the block cap too and make bountys unhitable.
which is why i think there should be a least and max orelse bountys will dominate mele toally without any chance of other builds using any mele hits.

so i don't support the idea.

edit: so none thinks i am suggesting this is just sarcasm.



Mother1 -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:00:02)

Won't ever happen even if you removed mins. Why? because people would just use the block, deflection cores to give themselves a grantee 4% chance or 6% chance to block. Stun chance is always fixed at 30% (with the exception of maul and shadow arts users with stun grenade.) So I don't see this happening.



xGreen Warriorx -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:02:49)

quote:

It's not taking out luck factors it's reducing unneeded luck factors
like 1% crit minimal which serve no purpose other then pure
luck that is angering the population. it should be minimal 0% or
5% with the proper core.

When you say luck is "angering the population" , you mean its angering the players on a higher lvl fighting lower lvled players. If I was a lvl 30 fighting a lvl 35, I would be very happy if I got lucky and critted a few times.



Bloodpact -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:03:03)

Dark do u even know the formulas?

Do you know how hard it would be even for a bounty to get
block to 100% on 99% of the population.

and were talking about minimals not maximals

like your suggestion on bounty could be to how hard it would but
for them to not hit somebody smoked.

still hard o-O



Edit : 35-30 fights... your kidding i've been crited twice then blocked and still beat a lucky level 30
there no luck in this world to save them from a 35.



toopygoo -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:04:32)

quote:

The thread you mentioned in GD argues against taking luck out of the game. Some luck is needed to give players fighting against higher lvled opponents a chance, and to make battles more interesting and fun in some cases. You shouldn't go into a battle and immediately know who is going to win just because they're a higher lvl.


no, taking luck out of the game is impossible. you can take a single aspect of luck off of your opponent at the cost of raising another. or you could remove luck as much as possible in all aspects at the cost of very low health and damage.
luck cannot be removed from this game by players.

quote:

well i remember it was 2% at least and its really fine to me as a bounty.
i'd say better to erase the block cap too and make bountys un-hitable.
which is why i think there should be a least and max or else bounties will dominate melee totally without any chance of other builds using any melee hits.


Yes bounties are INTENDED to be able to hit more frequently and successfully (as shown by their decrease dex skill and shadow arts combination)

whoa about cyber hunters? they can get a decrease tech with an increase blcok chance. this possibility would open up new defensive builds rather than the old "tank everything" setup.



DarkDevil -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:04:53)

^ u don't really know the jokes when you see one ?
i wasn't suggesting i was just proving unlikely with another way.
saying that removing min will not allow any chance for lower dex builds to block while removing the caps will not allow lower dex builds to hit so i am just ending the talk.



toopygoo -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:08:16)

quote:

Won't ever happen even if you removed mins. Why? because people would just use the block, deflection cores to give themselves a grantee 4% chance or 6% chance to block. Stun chance is always fixed at 30% (with the exception of maul and shadow arts users with stun grenade.) So I don't see this happening.

but how about these only increase you %'s instead of actually adding to the minimums? that could be changed, especially cause passives will be removed anyways.



Bloodpact -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:11:23)

^ they would have to add to the minimals , its part of the core
and such a thing would be a nerf.

If someone would use the core it's a choice they have made
like adding luck with shadow arts, it's just adding a luck factor
to your build then something solid. where as the same person could have
a lot of tech and should get the deflection core to future add to
there huge chance to deflect.



toopygoo -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:14:52)

well this kinda ticks me off a little more...
Luck is not supposed to be a factor such as a purchasable stat,
we should have no way of making builds based on luck. you should be able to have a battle where not everything is a 1 or a 0, but you can choose yourself (based on skills and stats combined)

especially with the new occurence of blocking and still doing damage (which i still approve), there should be a way to guarantee safety other than Azrael's will or something.



Mother1 -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:20:57)

@ toopygoo

If builds were like that then as it was said before Power builds would destroy everything. These things you want to be able to knock down to 0% while annoying to some are the checks and balances to keep offensive builds from destroying everything.

Plus all battles would be scripted if this could happen since you will know you can do X to certain builds.

But on another note I can see one positive to this. It would be giving the assault bot an indirect buff.



Bloodpact -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:27:20)

Luck is always a factor toopo , it's just too large atm,
and me and other are always suggesting ways to reduce it.

Getting rid of the 1%'s tho is simple logic tho, not
checks and balancing,

here is an comparison a caveman could understand:

If you were to pick between making your arms this
much "weaker" in return for your legs this much
stronger, at once point your legs should be able
to outrun anyone if you have completely sacrificed your arms.



DarkDevil -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:29:33)

removing block min and deflection min and critical min will just remove the act of luck if you have a focus 5 build you'll dominate over tech or str focused builds.



Bloodpact -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:31:09)

Actually as a 5 focus build you wouldn't be able
to reduce anyone to under 1% in crits deflects
or blocks since they don't excel in any particular stat.



toopygoo -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:50:52)

quote:

If builds were like that then as it was said before Power builds would destroy everything. These things you want to be able to knock down to 0% while annoying to some are the checks and balances to keep offensive builds from destroying everything.

Plus all battles would be scripted if this could happen since you will know you can do X to certain builds.

But on another note I can see one positive to this. It would be giving the assault bot an indirect buff.


i like how you put this about the bots, but i would like to point out, that you can really only force ignore 1 type of damage: either guns, or melee, or crits. you remain exposed to the others, or become more vulnerable to them if you spend extra points to trump one of them specifically. so you cannot dictate what kind og player you play. if you face someone with guns nad have an anti melee build, then you are still prolly screwed, and vice versa with tech.
quote:

If you were to pick between making your arms this
much "weaker" in return for your legs this much
stronger, at once point your legs should be able
to outrun anyone if you have completely sacrificed your arms.

i get it really clear, but keep in mind that it work the some way that if you have magnificent arms, and awful legs, you can 1 hit KO a lot of people but eventually, someone will hit back.
or eventually (in your exaample) someone will catch up. you can only gain one advantage at the cost of another.
quote:

removing block min and deflection min and critical min will just remove the act of luck if you have a focus 5 build you'll dominate over tech or str focused builds.

as blood said, this is not the case except in POTENTIAL juggernaut battle.. maybe 35%?



Bloodpact -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:55:33)

bringing up juggernauts ^ this would also bring more power to the juggs :].

Who are considered too weak atm

Edit: Glad you understood my lil comparison I trusted
people would ;]



toopygoo -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 16:58:05)

TBH this is one of the main problems i have, players make strength builds, and they work because even with the 0.025-0.09 % dictated chance, i get blocked and stuff quite a bit. knowing 1 thing for certain would really raise morale of juggernauts as well as potential for wins.
this wouldnt affect lower levels so much since they have faster kill builds on juggs instead.

i actually ofund you analogy rather interesting to read :) thank you



Bloodpact -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 17:06:47)

Glad we agree here, but we need more players enlightened to
this idea for it to be considered :/.

Hope a Dev happens to stop by.



edwardvulture -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 17:10:04)

No anything should be able to happen thats what keeps a battle exciting.(dang skill cores)



King Helios -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 17:13:51)

MY IDEA:

Lowering progressions below a certain %.

it takes 7 more support to lower stun chance 1%? Well, below a certain %, it goes to 9, then 11, etc.



DarkDevil -> RE: allowing %'s to reach 0 (6/6/2013 17:17:07)

@bloodpact, focus 5 builds may not be good at one but they are better at all except the stat focused by the enemy and in cast of str builds they usually got 30 dex/tech and 20 suport while focus 5 while usually have 50+ per stat which means they'll significatly have a head at nearly everything , so i don't really think 1% but way more maybe 6-7% at least.



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