RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (Full Version)

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ValkyrieKnight -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 0:00:36)

@ BloodPact

Are you not assuming that people have those hour time frames free everyday? Sure people maybe able to catch the first hour (assuming school doesn't take up that time frame ) but they're many who can't such as people who live where it's 7pm for Artix can be 1am ~ 5am for them.

They're many issues involving why this game isn't enjoyable for casuals players. Consider this, with the massive pool of armors and weapons within the game wouldn't it be fair to say that every now and then players would want to change their look? Obviously yes, but can they? There's clearly armors and weapons that are better than others via frost armor, curse armor, or the new Exile/Legion weapons so why would you want to buy neutral gears that have nothing on them? As a matter of fact, why would you want to buy anything? The starting gear is all you need. Here is where the problem lies, unless you are a frequent Varium buyer you're going to find yourself in a spot where you can't spent credits on anything that isn't necessary and always being stuck with the same class with the same gears makes the game feel tedious which = bordem. Nothing changes and you can't change anything unless you want to be stuck with unupgraded gears. The developers should make it so that players can purchase more than just the necessities to keep the game feeling fresh, make them feel like they're getting somewhere and doing something. While the developers are at it allow players to swap cores from 1 gear to the next. When a player equips a gear with a meteor strike core they're pretty much stuck with that gear, replacing it cost too much credits for the average player which also adds onto the problem.




Killer666 -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 0:34:13)

I have been playing for 4 years, longer than any of you chaps. Stop fighting and let me tell you the truth.

1) Yes many players are leaving
2) Epic Duel has changed so much over the years so the variety is there
3) They could change the credit system to make it easier just a tad
4) they need to impliment more to do in the game than jsut pvp


I enjoyed reading all of your comments :) so thank you for caring enough about this game to argue about it. They should consider waht you say. Just not as extream as you want.




ValkyrieKnight -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 0:40:18)

When you said "Do more than just PVP" quest that reward exp comes to mind, gives more incentive to do em, at its current state quest like that "win 300 battles for 4k credits" just won't do it.

On a sidenote, oh my goodness I was dead wrong, its so much harder to get a fight now.




NDB -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 0:46:30)

Fpr all those who said that non-vars have a hard time, that is a pure lie. In 2 weeks of playing about only an hour or less a day, i got my level 10 alt over 100k credits. I bought an armor, sword, gun, and aux and still have enough to either buy all the cores, a vehicle, robot, or change class. And for those who can't farm like me, buying the cheapest weapons in the game and getting only the necessary cores (Generator, Primary active, maybe some others) there's no possible way you'll run out of credits. The fact that you have to pay 2k varium for a bike worth 50k credits is plain ridiculous. 2k varium is $10 for god sake (and that's only if you buy the 10k var package. If you calculate in proportion to the 2.5k package, its $16). That is pathetic and all those committed non-vars know it is. It does not even take close to having to "grind months" to gain that much. But does that mean it's easy? No. And that's why people hate it so much. It's not that much work but it feels like it--a sign that the game is not longer fun.




Killer666 -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 0:47:53)

haha, ya im thinking they should expand on missions being funner, and not always pvp related. :)

As an alpha player, iv seen almost all sides of epic duel. Back in the day things were amazing and limitless now things are kinda "pvp or you wont get further in the game"
I like epic duel but i cant stand grinding. 5 battles ina row makes me sick and the amout of years iv played. So thank you all for sticking up for the wonderful Devs




ValkyrieKnight -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 0:55:34)

quote:

Fpr all those who said that non-vars have a hard time, that is a pure lie. In 2 weeks of playing about only an hour or less a day, i got my level 10 alt over 100k credits. I bought an armor, sword, gun, and aux and still have enough to either buy all the cores, a vehicle, robot, or change class. And for those who can't farm like me, buying the cheapest weapons in the game and getting only the necessary cores (Generator, Primary active, maybe some others) there's no possible way you'll run out of credits. The fact that you have to pay 2k varium for a bike worth 50k credits is plain ridiculous. 2k varium is $10 for god sake (and that's only if you buy the 10k var package. If you calculate in proportion to the 2.5k package, its $16). That is pathetic and all those committed non-vars know it is. It does not even take close to having to "grind months" to gain that much. But does that mean it's easy? No. And that's why people hate it so much. It's not that much work but it feels like it--a sign that the game is not longer fun.


You're such a elitist NDB, you really are. Of course people can just sit at level 10 and farm npcs til the end of time but guess what? Many of us have level 10++ characters, for me, I have 5 characters all of them are 31 ~ 35, so are you saying "Oh sorry, you gotta start over" No, I have to deal with the game as it is now, in fact, because I didn't train on my Bounty Hunter and Tech mage to prepare myself for Omega, they're rocking not fully equipped gear in and no cores in which my battles against 33 ~ 35 nearly always result in a loss, its only against unskilled players and level advantage that I finally get some wins on them so no thank you for your rant.





NDB -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 1:06:51)

quote:

You're such a elitist NDB, you really are. Of course people can just sit at level 10 and farm npcs til the end of time but guess what? Many of us have level 10++ characters, for me, I have 5 characters all of them are 31 ~ 35, so are you saying "Oh sorry, you gotta start over" No, I have to deal with the game as it is now, in fact, because I didn't train on my Bounty Hunter and Tech mage to prepare myself for Omega, they're rocking not fully equipped gear in and no cores in which my battles against 33 ~ 35 nearly always result in a loss, its only against unskilled players and level advantage that I finally get some wins on them so no thank you for your rant.

1 it kill Junker for a 75% or so chance for 50 credits with Soup and Salad and you'll have 100k in a week if you work hard. I guarantee you. And I have 3 35s, a 34, and 2 28s (got a lot more, but their not that high) so I had to work my butt off too in Omega. And why are you complaining about having to step in to battle and lose because you don't have gear/cores? No one asked you not to NPC nor did anyone say that level 10s are the only people who can do so. From my perspective, your post makes no sense.




ValkyrieKnight -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 1:12:51)

Firstly, you talked as if all you had to do was farm low level NPCs and make enough credits so you won't have to struggle later, reread your own post sir.

quote:

i got my level 10 alt over 100k credits. I bought an armor, sword, gun, and aux and still have enough to either buy all the cores, a vehicle, robot, or change class. And for those who can't farm like me, buying the cheapest weapons in the game and getting only the necessary cores (Generator, Primary active, maybe some others) there's no possible way you'll run out of credits.


Secondly I wasn't not "complaining" I was simply saying that if the game were more accessible to everyone "and not to hardcore players such as yourself" who can farm for hours and hours until you have what you want then there would be more players playing. As of its current state, this game is for moderates and hardcores meaning there is a alienation in part of the games playerbase which could potentially lead to potential new customers aswell.

I don't think new players are going to want to farm npcs all day and never get exp and just be okay with it, there has to be another way to invite new players in and give players the ability to buy newer items without being in essence, forced to buy one gear set and just stick with that is what I've been saying.

This game has been regarded ( by some ) to be a dress up game like AQW, but unlike AQW where you have access to many different outfits Epic Duel just pulverize you with a plethora of items that are too expensive to purchase. So much for being a Dress up game.




NDB -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 1:18:01)

quote:

"and not to hardcore players such as yourself" who can farm for hours and hours until you have what you want

Pfft. I said an hour or less a day. I haven't considered myself as a hardcore player in months. I've only even been semi-hardcore in the Infernal War.
quote:

I don't think new players are going to want to farm npcs all day and never get exp and just be okay with it, there has to be another way to invite new players in and give players the ability to buy newer items without being in essence, forced to buy one gear set and just stick with that is what I've been saying.

If they don't want to do it, it's their problem. It's how you play the game well and its what NPCs are there for. If they end up not having enough credits in the end, it was nobody's fault but their own. Stupid, yes. But that is excatly why ED is declining.




ValkyrieKnight -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 1:23:54)

Oh, yeah, my mistake, I misread how often you played, derp ! But at least you see where I was going with accessibility.




Bloodpact -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 1:51:01)


quote:


Are you not assuming that people have those hour time frames free everyday? Sure people maybe able to catch the first hour (assuming school doesn't take up that time frame ) but they're many who can't such as people who live where it's 7pm for Artix can be 1am ~ 5am for them.

They're many issues involving why this game isn't enjoyable for casuals players. Consider this, with the massive pool of armors and weapons within the game wouldn't it be fair to say that every now and then players would want to change their look? Obviously yes, but can they? There's clearly armors and weapons that are better than others via frost armor, curse armor, or the new Exile/Legion weapons so why would you want to buy neutral gears that have nothing on them? As a matter of fact, why would you want to buy anything? The starting gear is all you need. Here is where the problem lies, unless you are a frequent Varium buyer you're going to find yourself in a spot where you can't spent credits on anything that isn't necessary and always being stuck with the same class with the same gears makes the game feel tedious which = bordem. Nothing changes and you can't change anything unless you want to be stuck with unupgraded gears. The developers should make it so that players can purchase more than just the necessities to keep the game feeling fresh, make them feel like they're getting somewhere and doing something. While the developers are at it allow players to swap cores from 1 gear to the next. When a player equips a gear with a meteor strike core they're pretty much stuck with that gear, replacing it cost too much credits for the average player which also adds onto the problem.


@V-Knight

So some possibly miss it if they are in the middle of school, if it's because one powerhour is in the middle of the night, that can be solved with an alarm clock ( that's what I use ) , then there other one should be smack in the middle of the day, with no excuse to miss it.

I have all kinds of Varium collectable, but most I just have for show, I actually prefer the generator core, and the lucky strike core anyone could have gotten a few weeks ago via credits,
the Aux I uses concussion core, only varium collectable I use is Azreal sidearm, usually.[ tho i'm waiting for a certain armor to use generator on, so plat pride also ]

In Fact all my varium has gone into class changes and sometimes limited items. [ back in delta most went into enchantments tho ].

After the update credits will be even easier to get then they already are.

I can agree with you on the cores tho, wish you could just unlock them, I actually considered getting copies of weapons just so I don't have to re-core when I want a change of scenery...




Angels Holocaust -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 3:20:25)

Stage after stage this game looses more and more of it's players. The reason why this keeps on happening is because the game gets worse and harder. It's only a matter of time before this game looses even more. Fixing factions by removing tokens is a good idea, that's one less regulation the players have to deal with. Now, if we could get rid of flags all together, we're going to go back on track for factions. Afterwards we should implement a system that rewards factions for playing, things are already looking up for this game.




Khalix -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 10:15:00)

quote:

It all has to do with accessibility. This game is far too harsh on players without Varium in that gears with special abilities, cores and robots cost too much for the low amount of gold rewarded to players especially when they're constantly being put up against fully decked players / higher level and losing ( Baelius forbid you want to class change. Cpus are much worse than they were before aswell being harder due to the weakening of players and giving no exp/tokens. Sure players are able to farm cpus but its near unbearable to fight them for hours on end. Cpus power are also somewhat based on fully decked Varium users aswell. Beating bosses above level 27 is a terribly hard task as a free player.


NPCs can be fought again, won't affect your record and should be generally be used to obtain a reliable amount of credits.

http://puu.sh/3gHJx.jpg <Non-var>

Obtained Juggernaut Card at level 20 from murdering Talia x amount of times during power hour.
Obtained most of the gear at level 10 by farming Oz.
Obtained 4 cores at level 25 through regular fights. (Obtained first core at level 22)
Planning on obtaining a bot.

In my eyes, it isn't unbearable- Though I can say this because I only fight for one hour a day.

As for varium-users with decked cores and a W/L ratio of at least 3, they're still fodder if you know what you're doing.

I very much suggest you rethink your build or strategy before making statements.




ValkyrieKnight -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 14:25:53)

quote:


Khalix

NPCs can be fought again, won't affect your record and should be generally be used to obtain a reliable amount of credits.

http://puu.sh/3gHJx.jpg <Non-var>

Obtained Juggernaut Card at level 20 from murdering Talia x amount of times during power hour.
Obtained most of the gear at level 10 by farming Oz.
Obtained 4 cores at level 25 through regular fights. (Obtained first core at level 22)
Planning on obtaining a bot.

In my eyes, it isn't unbearable- Though I can say this because I only fight for one hour a day.

As for varium-users with decked cores and a W/L ratio of at least 3, they're still fodder if you know what you're doing.

I very much suggest you rethink your build or strategy before making statements.

@ Above

Oh cmon, this isn't rocket science ! This isn't about what I can do, this isn't about what you can do, this should be about what players as a whole can do. I can tell you're not familiar with me, I busted my behind in Delta even being called "Very skilled a for a non Varium" player.

What you're failing to see is that OP builds become more prevalent once you hit the level where you're being pinned against level 32 ~ 35 and with a average build without crucial cores/robots you'll find winning 1v1s can be quite tough ( especially when nearly everyone you fight is 35 with Azreal and Chariman's Fury) like what I have to deal with.

Once again someone mentions farming a low level npc for good credits, sure you can do that, but many players can't. They feel like they're not going anywhere being stuck at the same level getting no exp so they become bored. And again, players want to feel as if they can purchase new items without fear of being behind on credits. No one wants to be stuck with the same gear until the end of time. Take Varium players you have tons of promos and upgraded them in Delta knowing it didn't serve them any purpose via Eggshell Suit, Banana Suit, Gamma Suit, see what I mean here? They buy multiple armors/weapons knowing its not any better than the last so why is it hard to say free players/casuals want to do the same? Especially when everytime you buy new gears you have to apply the same OR different cores on it with adds an extra 14k to every item you buy.




killerman164 -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/16/2013 18:49:18)

quote:

NPCs can be fought again, won't affect your record and should be generally be used to obtain a reliable amount of credits.

http://puu.sh/3gHJx.jpg <Non-var>

Obtained Juggernaut Card at level 20 from murdering Talia x amount of times during power hour.
Obtained most of the gear at level 10 by farming Oz.
Obtained 4 cores at level 25 through regular fights. (Obtained first core at level 22)
Planning on obtaining a bot.

In my eyes, it isn't unbearable- Though I can say this because I only fight for one hour a day.

As for varium-users with decked cores and a W/L ratio of at least 3, they're still fodder if you know what you're doing.

I very much suggest you rethink your build or strategy before making statements.


I'm actually quite suprised you never went to the mechachilid to farm. Those things are so defenseless...




Archlord Raistlin -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/17/2013 1:37:30)

I don't know if this will provide any insight, but since I am from the AQW/Beta era and one of those "old" players who has left a couple of times, I can tell you this...

Originally the PvP part of the game was much more predictable and I didn't feel that balance issues caused that many problems in 2v2. Personally I enjoy 2v2 much more than making the same 4 moves every time in 1v1. For me, introducing the new classes was the beginning of all the problems. The Tac Merc class was so obviously OP that most players changed to it and ED did nothing about it for well over a year. Complain or suggest all you want...NOTHING WAS DONE.

That was back when things were going well for Epicduel and they were making money from all the class changes to Tac Merc. You could only change class with varium at that time... The devs and player staff had a certain arrogance about the whole thing, repeatedly trying to justify the OP tac merc in terms of 1v1...so those of us who didn't care to play that class, or those of us who played 2v2 were basically SOL. I have always loved EpicDuel and have $$$ supported it for many years, but that was the beginning of the problems and consistent disappointments I have found in the evolution of this game.

Another issue for me personally has been the almost total disregard for balancing in 2v2. Devs and staff alike are at fault for this, constantly testing things out in 1v1, but not paying attention to how those changes might affect 2v2 battles. I've gone through many classes dominating 2v2 or becomming total crap due to some tweak they made for 1v1. The 2v2 community says something about it and nothing is done because "it is balanced (for 1v1) and we see no need to change it". I've waited too many times and for too long for solutions. I have suggested 100 times to "bring lower classes up" not to keep nerfing everyone. From what I can see, nerfing still equals balance attempt and no one likes to be nerfed... There's another nerf coming up, right?

Then there's trolls out there in the forums, who rather than play the game, simply advocate for some change...not for the good of the game, but for the good of himself/herself, or some particular interest at the time. I have read the forums for some time, and my feeling is that the devs simply follow the wrong course of action time and time again. Case in point - why has NOTHING been done to this day about multis. Multis used to be the cornerstone of 2v2 play, everyone had one and they had the ability to use them succesfully against the other builds. Multi has rarely been used for several years in 2v2 because the damage is often a joke, yet it costs most of your EP. Multi was originally changed due to these "trolls" propoganda, and other than support merc artillary, multi has been effectively taken out of the game. What do the devs and player staff do??? NOTHING...and you know what? That kind of disregard for the roots of this game makes it increasingly easy for me to forget about it and definitely easier not to spend my money on it.

I'm actually surprised I came back this time...a moment of weakness I guess. Each time I do though, I hope for the best and it is very disappointing that there's about 1/3 of the players online at any given time as there used to be. Find a way to balance the classes in BOTH battle modes and you will once again have an addicting game where people make friends and stay. I've been back for 5 days now and this recent exile vs legion battle set-up simply pizzes meh off.

Sadly, I might start reading a book...




ReinVI -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/17/2013 2:59:37)

what's wrong with reading a book? there's a lot of good literature out there...




MirageD -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/17/2013 6:18:19)

hiya archie [;)] totally agree with everything in your post !

~mira




Khalix -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (6/17/2013 6:31:11)

@Arch

Ho-yay, someone who thinks the same way as I do. I have to disagree with some sentiment you have, however.

@Valkyrie

I'm a lovely vet as well. Steffanov is just an alt I made to try out Juggernaut for the first time because I'm not exactly fond of teammates who mess up.

quote:

What you're failing to see is that OP builds become more prevalent once you hit the level where you're being pinned against level 32 ~ 35 and with a average build without crucial cores/robots you'll find winning 1v1s can be quite tough ( especially when nearly everyone you fight is 35 with Azreal and Chariman's Fury) like what I have to deal with.


I have another fancy character at lvl 35 without a robot and only an energy shot core along with generator yet maintains a wonderful W/L.

If someone's not doing well in the game, then the problem is within them- Before you convict me of not caring for the general populace, then I'll have to inform you that regardless of instructions being given out on a team game, they still disobey. If given help on what build to use, they can't use it properly even when given explicit instructions.

To be fair, the only people you can trust without barking orders at them in a team game are people with a W/L of at least 1.5.




Archlord Raistlin -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (7/15/2013 2:29:06)

I just had a 2v2 battle vs a blood mage and a cyber hunter.

I have never seen this before, but I had EVERY sword strike blocked in the battle.
This was 6 attacks, including malf, static and regular strikes. My dex is 54+28 and
the blood had low dex...the cyber about the same as mine. This is the BS the battle
engine spits out. The realistic chance of that happening is 0%. In fairness, the battle
engine did let me block 2, one on rage, but still...

This is one reason many older players leave and it is definitely one reason we do not
support the game like we used to. Omega has made just about everyone and every
piece of equipment the same, so why do we need all of this constant frustration? Do
you think it's interesting or fun when a malfed mage with 0-0 +8 resistance deflects an
attack?

If the dev's can make static charge so bad it is blocked 1/2 the time, they can easily
reduce how many of these freak occurances happen in each and every battle...





AQWorldsFarmer -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (7/15/2013 3:04:59)

Ok, do you really want to know why epicduel doesn't have many players?

Reason 1: Its just interesting for low levels, new players come along and create an account and think it sucks because its BORING from levels 1-8 (sometimes 1-14)

Reason 2: Epicduel Doesn't advertise as much as the hit game AQWorlds.

The only place I've ever seen epicduel advertise was on AQWorlds homepage, and lets face it, not many people pay attention to the homepage.
What they need to do is...


1. Make it more interesting from level 1.
- Give more skills at the start (maybe when they first log in it shows the retraining screen and tells them how to invest in stats and skill points). Maybe 4 more points? As oppose to the normal 3 that you cant change
-Have a turtorial to show players all the aspects of the game, and prompt them do a "battle" Where it tells them to press the 1vs1 or 2vs2 buttons (giving a description of each one) And showing them how to battle.
-Give players starting cred to buy some items (maybe 4,000 credit)

2. Give advertising of what the game is REALLY like!
-Like, have a cutscene advertisement of a battle between 2 pro players with epic items, maybe a malf/smoke with robots, everyone loves robots.
-Put it where you will have likely customers such as a ballyhoo advertisement on AQWorlds or AQ Aslo try an advertisement on youtube if it isnt too exspensive.

Edit: this is death iz ciarity




VanitySixx -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (7/15/2013 3:28:58)

I like that idea, and Archlord I really know what you're talking about. That kind of stuff annoys the crap outta me. Old players left because of this change and new players refuse to play atm. But if a post has not been posted on for more than 2 weeks, aren't you not suppose to post on it?

Js... lol




TankMage -> RE: A Decline in EpicDuel? (7/15/2013 4:07:02)

Locking up as this has been necro-bumped. Topics that have been inactive for 2 or more weeks are not to be posted in.




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