RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (Full Version)

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Mother1 -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 19:32:51)

@ King

If I were to guess it might be something like 5 credits per token or if we are lucky 10.



The Joker X -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:02:55)

Wouldn't 32 credits per token seem like a reasonable amount?



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:05:47)

@joker Except it would give a huge boost to players who saved up their tokens. 5 per token will give me over 10k credits. 32 per token would give me 64k credits. 10 per token seems about right.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:14:12)

Not if you are looking at it from a business sense. Some people have a huge amount of battle tokens saved up due them having nothing to spend them on or are waiting for seasonal rare cheevos to come back.

If they were paid 32 credits per token depending on how many token they have it would cause them to gain a huge amount of credits in one swoop. If I had 10K tokens and was paid 32 credits per token I would get back 320,000 credits. Others have even more then that.




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:16:46)

Compromise:

give the credit/token ratio that also includes tokens donated.

some players saved their tokens, while others donated them.
it seems fair to give a ratio based on both. and any other tokens spent were most likely on achievements, which doesn't need to be included.

Ratio
10/1
5k in inventory/donations = 50k credits

EDIT:
also, try not to piss off the people who donated by removing their contributions from the faction page. w/e new "revamp" (and i put emphasize on the quotes since in ED, Revamp usually means making things worst) make it take this into account.

many of these solutions should have been solved or cleared up before the idea was even brought up in the design notes.
but this is what happens when you lack a game designer in your staff team.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:18:52)

@gold Except the token contributions aren't kept track of if you leave the faction. And the staff aren't going to go through ALL the characters to manually calculate the tokens spent on cheevos so they can be fair to the players who left/got kicked from factions.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:19:54)

@mallet
1 solo win = 1 token
1 team/jugg win = 2 tokens

shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

and i find it a bit of a stretch that they couldn't possibly measure how many tokens they have or spent.

i remember when my faction took the OZ flag with 200k+ tokens, the mods were telling us it was impossible for any other faction to take the flag because no other faction had enough tokens. this only leads me to believe that they have some type of method to count how many tokens factions have saved up.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:21:36)

@gold And what about Token Boosts? Then after all that, you would have to add up all the cheevos they have then subtract that. Seems simple enough, except there would hundreds to thousands of players to do this for.

Edit: They can see how many tokens players have. That's the easy part. The hard part is telling how many tokens a player SHOULD have.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:23:09)

@mallet

then simply do nothing.
this is just another example of less solutions, more problems that ED typically does in their updates.

its pretty obvious from the start that it would cause problems, so idk why they would even consider doing this.



The Joker X -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:23:17)

You still have the same amount of currency either way. The tokens you spend now will equal the credits you could have spent later. It doesn't matter if some people have more tokens than others, it's because they haven't spent as much. If it's 32 credits per token, it would still end up being fair because prices would be adjusted.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:26:42)

whats worst about this is the fact they they present the idea in the design notes, to change the token system and then do a flag revamp, but have no solutions in place for the problems that may/will arise.

they dont even know what the credit/token ratio will be, all this just proves further more that they either dont plan their updates, or are stubborn to see the flaws.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:29:32)

@gold When you contribute to a flag, you've pretty much spent those tokens. It wouldn't be fair to give contributors something while those who bought cheevos nothing. You're still spending them, regardless of what you spent them on. And I believe flag capture gives a cheevo, does it not?

@joker No, prices should not be adjusted just so a few players with thousands of tokens saved up won't have a free ride through the game for awhile. Why should a lvl 35 player with no saved tokens have to pay 75K credits for just one weapon all because another level 35 player had over 3k tokens saved up and got over 90k credits from it?



xGreen Warriorx -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:30:52)

@goldslayer Complain once the release actually goes live. They don't tell us everything in the DNs becaue they haven't decided everything yet.




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:31:44)

quote:

When you contribute to a flag, you've pretty much spent those tokens. It wouldn't be fair to give contributors something while those who bought cheevos nothing. You're still spending them, regardless of what you spent them on. And I believe flag capture gives a cheevo, does it not?

yes a flag cheevo, a one time thing.

it does not matter if i donated 10 tokens to get that cheevo or if i donated 100k.
because under this change, it would be the exact same value.

if it wasn't donated on the other hand, 100k tokens would be a hefty amount of credits (i would assume)
the player gets more reward out of saving the tokens than spending it.
and with the tax rate that ED has had, it was well worth to save them.

quote:

They don't tell us everything in the DNs becaue they haven't decided everything yet.

thats what im complaining about....
they tell us they will do such change, but dont have anything set in stone in terms of how it will, how it will work, and what solutions to probably problems will they have. and are still indecisive about what to do.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:37:06)

@gold Look at it this way. Do you want them to have details set in stone when they tell them to us or do you want them to be open? One way, if you don't like the changes, leaves no option for change. The other leaves room to improve with feedback. You can't have both. You can either have things set in stone or have some wiggle room for changes.



xGreen Warriorx -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:37:35)

Rabblefroth, quoted from page 2.
quote:

quote:


It's ironic how you need player feedback for this conversion ratio, but when enhancement compensation came, the ratio was decided between closed doors.

It's almost like we learn from past experiences. ;)


quote:


they dont even know what the credit/token ratio will be, all this just proves further more that they either dont plan their updates, or are stubborn to see the flaws.

They don't know what the credit token ratio will be yet because they are letting us help them decide. They've also "seen their flaws" by letting us help make the decision.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 20:46:39)

then id like to see feed back on what Solutions they have for some of the problems.
and ill list a few questions here.


1) What will the credit/token ratio be?
2) will the ratio account for tokens donated?
3) what happens to the token donation count on faction pages?
4) what happens to the tokens already on the flags?
5) will the tokens on the flag be completely removed? (if they are, further proves that donating was a waste, and should be compensated)
6) what happens to the hourly flag capture total and LBs?



im sure other players have other questions aswell. now id love to hear your feedback on these problems.



kosmo -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 21:04:19)

In my opinion devs have 4 choices:
-They can convert cheevos to cost x credits and simply remoove tokens.This doesnt benefit any player so many might be disappointed
-They can convert cheevos to cost x credits and remoove tokens giving a boost to credit rreward.This would get rid of tokens that have became odd and would prevent from committing another inflation on prices and it would benefit players replacing tokens with credits that can be spent on evrything.
-They can keep tokens with the only propouse of buyng cheevos.This would benefit players since flags are no longer being controlled with tokens and basically it will cost us less to buy archiviments.
-They can keep tokens with the only propouse of buyng cheevos with an increased fixed price since tokens are no longer being used for flags capturing.In a mesured way this might be the best option for both parts alowing them to make the changes to flags keeping the value of credits and tokens the way it is.



toopygoo -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 21:25:00)

hey, is there gonna be an achievement released for players who have donated over 10K tokens over the course of their career? can we get some achievement like that to mark this big change?



Bloodpact -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 21:26:13)

They did last time ^ since there is no way there refunding 100%. it's a partial to make the
refund more fair.



toopygoo -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 21:28:42)

awesome :D im pretty sure i have reached it.. i donated over 7.5K for sure and plan on putting 500 more in. will it just be for donations? any spending of the tokens, like on achievements too? cause i wasnt in a faction for a while and got bored :/



Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 21:48:50)

I'm trying to get a little active again after I heard about these changes to balance. I hope they're good since the plans of change are pretty drastic.



Go Big or Get Lost -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 22:45:14)

- So each faction battles for 1 flag against the other alignment to control the flag? If yes, then each faction maybe can battle for a flag per day... like a daily thing.. having the most wins by the faction?



toopygoo -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 22:46:34)

thatll spread things too thin, i dont think thatll work, sorry. unless i misundertood



Kd -> RE: =ED= June 13th, 2013 - Daring Design Notes (6/13/2013 23:25:12)

Already donated tokens- what will happen to these? Will they get converted into credits and returned to the owner or will they be converted into influence? Just wanting a confirmation here before I donate all 4k+ of my battle tokens to get influence :p



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