RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (Full Version)

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Elite Tuga -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/4/2013 23:12:39)

@ Midnightsoul - I been around a long time & I know when something isn't right. Cyber's are underdogs no matter what build you do these days, they will all ways remain at the bottom class at least for now. Just today I did 5 different builds & I get very stressful tight win chances that only come around not so often I.e 1/4 games are victories.

BTW! In order to stay strong against most you not only need a good stat's build suitable for your specific fight mode but you also need a 'DAM' good skill tree with out one you won't go far! FTW, If Cybers were not the 'UNDERDOGS ATM' why in 'EARTH!' have many numbers of Cyber's that I know converted to Tech Mage's, Tactical Merc's & Blood Mage's lately?... EXACTLY, because Cybers no longer workout well as a class 'ATM' I rest my case.

I am just hoping for the 'WAR' to end soon, I can't wait for the passive skills to turn actives, I know it is a risky move & might make things worse but at least if Dev's do this its showing us that their trying out new things that might work out fairly for everyone & we all might eventually get used too, like we did with the whole 'OMEGA' phase experience.

I'm done disputing about Cyber's if anyone is still against my word about Cyber's not being a good reliable class these days, then I simply 'DARE YOU' to invest Varium/Credit & convert to Cybers & see for yourself!.. Peace!



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/4/2013 23:16:10)

@Midnight

That's the problem. We are being forced into using 3 limited builds.

Multi shot builds don't work anymore. Poison drains too much energy and can be cured, so that's out. Plasma grenade is pathetic unless you can get a stun out of it. Multi shot does not even improve, and is only good for crit chances. Massacre takes too much energy, leaving you defenseless after use. Glass cannons will die too fast to even use all their attacks.

Just because there are working builds, doesn't mean Cyber Hunter is balanced. Half the whole friggin skill tree is not worth investing in! 5 focus tank is the common build for a cyber.

That's pathetic, we should be having extreme multi-shot builds, high tech plasma grenades, poison spamming, heal looping.........

But no, nothing else works anymore! Except for this 2v2 support build I made that was based off a support-merc.

I've seen mercs with with every stat invested in, and actually putting up a HARD fight, using every skill at least once. Cyber needs to be buffed to be able to do that.

@Tuga

Ahh the days when Cyber was OP xD. But it was only because of the static+massacre build T_T





Elite Tuga -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/4/2013 23:51:33)

@ Dual Thrusters - At last someone who specified in a different perspective that Cyber's suck compared to other classes. 'I completely agree with you.'
I could have said the same like you said, but I couldn't be asked to continue into it bcz usually we have so many people who love to go contrary to what others say. Funny thing is most who go against are not currently Cyber's, thus making it obvious that they only go opposite of what Cyber's like us say, because they only wish that Cyber's remain this weak / pathetic & not to be looked at & get improved!. Cyber's feel limited & violated compared to most classes due to the terrible 'SKILL TREE' & no matter what smart a$$ build you do it will come to a disaster like 'Dual T' mentioned.'

P.s: D. Thrusters, those days when Cyber's were OP everyone who weren't C.hunter's cried like babies in forums just so we would get the 'Nerf' (which I find fair) but now these days that T/B Mages & T Merc's are slightly OP against Cybers, when we C.Hunters complain many go contrary to what we say which I find revolting & disrespectful. We can only wait & see what actions the Dev's will do & hope for the fairest & bestest outcome.



Mother1 -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/4/2013 23:59:17)

@ elite tuga

Just because he doesn't agree with what the masses say doesn't mean he is wrong either. If everyone agreed with everything in the forums then we wouldn't need a forums now would we since there wouldn't be any discussions.

But I have to ask one thing. Why is it that if a build isn't being used by everyone it is perceived as underpowered or worthless? It is just a vibe I am always getting with most posts in the forums.



CivilAE -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 0:13:25)

Ive been a Cyber Hunter more or less from the beginning of delta,( I continue'd a month of TM before the switch). Yeah static was pretty OP. CH as of now is most definitely the least versatile class whether people think it or not, its just the fact that the majority is no longer CH anymore so people don't really care anyhow (As blunt as that is it's true).

After the static nerf CH was fine, enhancements kinda covered up some of the unbalance overall. But now there are limit's (Not bad ones, I like the change)Tech and dex are the dominate statz which cybers benefit little from(SkillWise). Since i came back ive invested atleast 5k creditz into enhancements just to see what actually works( complete waste, I got more winz with my first choice). After the initial nerf in delta I did fine, see that focus builds where still pretty power and I could dish out sufficient damage with my Yeti, but im sure that somewhere along the line got nerfed to from what I see.

The only buildz ive seen that are actually winning are Glass cannon, Infernalbot/Poisonspam builds, and other tank buildz generally with pay2win gear. (Heal looping with cyber is not a walk in the park)

Cyber generally malf anyway cause that the only way you're going to get anything out of static , not that it matter in all with all the energy draining cores ontop of base draining skills on most classes ,Static old effect may have been OP but lookn at it now, meh.

Multishot is not useless. Useless skillz I would have to say are Shadowarts, plasma armor; Matrix doesn't help with all those azaral cores, and stun grenade.

Another thing, all the talk about waiting till after the war when all passive skillz become active is pointless, we still don't know how thatz gonna play out or if anything is gonna change since ALL class are taking a hit from hit even Cyber which would obviously only make the situation worse.





Elite Tuga -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 0:19:07)

@ Mother1 - Fair enough everyone has different opinions that's why we communicate to come to an agreement but at least the respectable minded who can give decent views can somewhat also agree with other peoples views too, but be honest you ain't like that I only see 'YOU' mostly go against what players say. ESPECIALLY with me on all my comments regardless the topic, I rather you get off my case if you don't want to 'ATLEAST' Partially agree with me & leave others to respond. Us going against each other won't resolve anything maturely.

Answer to your question about what isn't usually used by everyone is perceived underpowered is simply, because what is good everyone wants with much effort, eventually gets & what's left behind isn't much interest because if it was good people would have copied each other & make it heard (go viral), not all ways but generally.

Ok, I will go now its 5:14 AM here, need to rest. Peace!



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 0:42:54)

To be frank, though, I am quite worried about the upcoming passive change. Plasma Armour is pretty much the only thing that keeps CHs viable. The devs must recognise that a complete revamp of all existing skills is necessary if they wish to alter passives; they must understand that passives, and balance, don't exist in a vacuum. And of course, they probably won't, and the next few months thus won't be looking too good...



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 1:06:51)

quote:

But I have to ask one thing. Why is it that if a build isn't being used by everyone it is perceived as underpowered or worthless? It is just a vibe I am always getting with most posts in the forums.


I change my build 3 times everyday looking for all sorts of strategies. I don't care how ridiculous it is or how it affects my ratio, it is just to experiment. Now, from all my tests, only 4 of my builds were actually pretty good. The rest had like 40-60% win ratios.

Well for one, those builds were unique, and no where near underpowered.




@Civil

During one of my experiments, I put ALL my stats into dex and went into 10 fights. Multi shot just didn't do enough damage -.-. To top it off, it has terrible synergy!

And defense matrix is actually still formidable even when nerfed by azreal.



CivilAE -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 1:58:51)

@Dual Thursters I ran that dex build (In a sort cause im pretty sure ours differ and someway or another) from mid delta up until omega started where it is truly useless now, i did find a build similiar to my old dex build (Since my stats cant go over 32 anymore im fairly limited). Surprisingly, it wins 40% of the time I would say, that being alot with cyber the way it is now where it was more like 85-95% b4 omega. But thats only because I ran 5 focus with +42 Tech and +31 dex on 70 or 80 base dex I think it was, I hit about 33 non malfed now like 20s. Of course im not hitting anywhere near that amount and after the static nerf the mana regen, with that nasty bot damage on the side. But thats delta.

Nonetheless is still multishot and all classes have it, im not sure how it plays out in 2v2 anymore but I don't think it hurts having it anyway. But I can see where u coming from, the stat gets checked being a cyber hunter and all, and all the bounty'z running around.

As for defense matrix, Yeah well if u have large investmentz into your dex on top of that then okay, added to the effect of the omega weps I would say its still pretty close to useless and a waste of the turn most of the time, guess it depend more or less on the equip your opponent has. But with +32 attack I don't really think it matter as much as it should:/.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 2:07:06)

Well matrix works for my build because I'm not a tank xD



Ooh a great buff to static charg would be to make it like static smash, but it only grants you energy and no draining.



CivilAE -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 2:11:54)

Thats the thing, neither am I atm lel.



Synner -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 11:43:05)

@Elite you just dont know how to use it, im cyber hunter my self and i average 83% win rate a day.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 11:46:41)

@synner

The problem is that we are limited on builds. Half the skills we have are not worth investing in.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 11:57:02)

^ Basically, the game makes so many skills useless that we almost have no choice but to conform to whatever everyone else is using. You can't make stun grenade work, you can't make frenzy work, you can't make massacre/supercharge ( blood mage ) work, you can't make blood shield work. Too many skills aren't usable/reliable.



CivilAE -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 12:24:50)

@Synner How much you're winning with it is not the point it doesn't change the fact that the class lacks variety all in all, and stating that he doesn't know how to use it correctly is even more flawed since the classes are supposed to be built around build variety/difference which would mean it could be used in all kinds of ways, not "role playing" like you see in RPG's in such, the closes we get to that I would say is 2v2.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 15:09:05)

@Valkyrie

I think Tlms are fine, some even have working builds where they invest their stat points in all their stats!

The classes that worry me the most are bloodmage and cyberhunter, mostly cyberhunter because it's other builds have less synergy.



Bloodpact -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 16:12:22)

The CH like the TactMerc and BloodMage being underdogs share the same problem that make them appear to be

underpowered, there lack of diversity. They simply have too many skills with little to no value to any real build.


TactMerc- Frenzy and Field Commander.

Bloodmage- Fireball and Supercharge.

CyberHunter- Plasma Grenade and Static Charge.



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 16:20:58)

I once remember all 3 evolved classes were OP; I guess the evolved classes switched making them UP; but I know for a fact that mercenary was UP for a long time.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 17:51:20)

Well, CH is a class that relies on malf for near all of its offensive potential, and malf can easily be countered with the use of a buff or by removing all of the CH's energy. TLM is also fairly weak because it relies on its base damage attacks such as strike, sidearm, and aux attacks for most of its offensive capabilities, and all of these were nerfed. BM is similar to TLM, except it's even worse because it needs the high damage to fuel blood lust. Since BM relies heavily on basic attack damage such as sidearm+deadly aim and bludgeon which is just strike damage with a static boost, when those things were nerfed, it lost a lot of its effectiveness as a class, especially since BMs depend on blood lust for their endurance. Merc can rely on energy for a lot of its damage potential, and this is easily supplied with static smash, TMs are the same way except they have a debuff, reroute, assim, and deadly aim instead of tanky properties, and BHs have a debuff which wasn't really nerfed that badly to work with blood lust. So basically the evolved classes are quite weak right now because previously they relied too much on basic attacks such as bot, strike, sidearm, etc... while the starting classes are fairly strong because they rely on easily replenishable energy-based attacks that simply deal a far greater amount of damage.



Elite Tuga -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 20:21:42)

@ Public - As I & many unsatisfied Cyber's have said before, the reason/s why Cyber's are underdogs these days is simply because we are absolutely limited on our skill's from the skill tree (we can only go Tank with or without focus 5).
The 1 best choice for a Cyber is a 'Tank build' but a really rubbish not very lasting one, because we haven't got a good Health/Energy looping skill/s like a Tec Mage/B. Mage or B. Hunter does. So that said even I.e a Mage where their true field are more of a projectionist is better of a tank than a Cyber.

I'm currently settled at a build where my health is 3 digits, intermediate tank defences, high strength, no support & focus. I prefer to hit hard throughout the battle rather than just rely on robot every 3/4 turns & have longer battle duration as much possible with the high HP/DEF. I found this the best build out of many for 1v1 even so i'm only getting like 40-60% win rate (If players claim to get more then their just luckier in battle nothing to do with smarter). There's only so much you can do with this class due to lack of skill varieties. Energy/health looping skill/s & other tactful & useful strategic skills is what we literally have deficiency on I.e static charge is useless due to 2 cool-downs & low % gain rather than being a passive or more well efficient skill. Massacre & Venom strike consume too much energy & leave you vulnerable, especially if your against other strategic builds, unlike I.e T.Mages energy skill projectiles which hit hard damage for just as low as 21 E. Thus makes us fall behind comparison to the rest & we have to try hold ourselves from the skin of our teeth to try win.

Peace!



King FrostLich -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 20:26:27)

^Cyber Hunter is the only class that can easily defeat caster mages compared to mercs with atom smash or even tact merc and BH alone. They aren't good nowadays with strength because they don't have enough defensive abilitites when going for strength builds even with a large energy pool. A tank 5 focus with decent hp works well back when I was CH and I used it to farm Titan for credits and go 2v2 and 1v1 without the need of changing builds.



Mother1 -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 21:31:52)

Personally I feel all new classes not just cyber hunter need their own personal moves that don't overlap from the old classes. If this was done it would be a heck of a lot easier to balances the classes without nerf or buffing another due to shared moves, and it would give each of the new classes more diversity.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 22:10:26)

@King Frostlich

easily defeat caster mages? I think not. CH is a bad matchup for them due to inferior tanking abilities and an inability to out-damage them. Before the Botanical Hazards, my fights against them were close. After, they have the advantage. (didn't have enough credits to get one)



Mecha Mario -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/5/2013 22:16:19)

Deleted/Edited some posts. Everybody has the right to their own opinions. While not everyone did this behavior, you don't got the right to call other people's opinions ignorant, stupid, etc. There will be consequences if this continues.

Stay on topic.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Seriously Dev's, Cyber Hunters need to be 'LOOKED AT!' (7/6/2013 1:49:00)

Cyber Hunters are formidable, but they mostly just tank so their rather dull to play. I'd hardly call them underpowered. 'ell, they have an armor passive AND defense matrix AND malf. Toss in EMP grenade and static charge and you've got a formidable class.



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