RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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DidYouKnowThat -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/1/2014 3:38:09)

I updated my post that was above yours. :P

Anyways I'd say not to nerf it. That'd be worse than substituting the card. If anything, do what the other guy said. Take Ironhide away and give it something else to compensate. Nerfing it would suck pickles with a side of burnt beans.

I've went up against Iron Hides before and it ain't that bad. Just meanwhile, set up DoT chains, Shields, or heal. Maybe even prepare a nice stun.





The Jop -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/1/2014 3:41:06)

Comparing it to any other shield card, it is way too much defense for the amount of energy it costs. It's 4x efficiency, and more for the CC version. What would you want to replace iron hide? I'm okay with that solution as long as it doesn't cause any more problems or upset anyone. Waiting out iron hide doesn't really work in my experience, since Neutral characters have Neutralize, the most efficient energy regenerating card. So they can easily attack with their excess energy while maintaining iron hide. I also have tried fighting neutral characters like Taro and Tharr with Resonance by stacking DoTs and shielding, but that only worked when they didn't use iron hide for at least one turn. Since stacking 5 electric arcs equals 0 damage on a character with iron hide.




Luckydude4 -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/1/2014 3:55:10)

You've had two days to prepare counter-arguments. I'm not seeing any whatsoever. Shall I give you a week then? Furthermore, that screenshot depicted a fairly low level duel. It is the resilience of Frost Orbs that strikes me as OP. I may be able to bring her to literally 500 hp in a level 20 duel, but then she either Freezes or uses Shields to buy time, with which she heals back up to a nice four digit sum. With this in mind, I urge our hopefully benevolent benefactors to nerf her Freeze (an argument you have never touched), or at least to finally deliver a master form of Kruger to oppose her.




DidYouKnowThat -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/1/2014 3:56:01)

Well. . .looks like we're not thinking the same way. :P

I kind of like it when they use an Iron Hide. . . . . they think they're safe when I'm already onto them. Hehehe.. . wish there was a Ninja emoticon. [:D]




Megadragonknight -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/1/2014 3:59:22)

I only can say one thing. Once EE is release, Xmas Elf won't be too OP or hard anymore for her main weakness is Fire and some fire characters will take her down like Void Rebirth, Evil Jim, Mana Guardian.




DidYouKnowThat -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/1/2014 4:00:17)

EE?




Megadragonknight -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/1/2014 4:01:51)

My bad, I mean EW aka Elemental Weakness. xD




The Jop -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/1/2014 4:05:28)

@Luckydude
I'm not spending my days preparing counterarguments to you. I spend my days living my real life and then come here to see a new post so I present my opinions which you seem to disagree with. I've said all I can on the subject about how freeze fits in with ice character's deck and how XMas Elf can be defeated. I have no more to say to you, and definitely no desire to.




The Death Angel -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/3/2014 14:13:11)

Fix Xmas Elf please. I'm desperate by now. There is just no way anyone can justify Xmas Elf anymore and there is nothing worse than fighting for 10 minutes only because an Xmas elf can keep 2k shields up while healing to then throw 50 shatters in your face. It's getting pretty sickening to play against Xmas Elves. They just pubstomp at PvP at the moment.




Luckydude4 -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/3/2014 14:24:40)

I agree. With all objections and objectors refuted, there is no argument for keeping Frost Orbs as she is. Let's get this done gents, preferably before February.




Skurge -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/3/2014 14:38:26)

Fortunately, the staff is already aware of Xmas Elf and her "OPness". Hopefully they'll get it fixed soon.




The Death Angel -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/3/2014 14:42:21)

Ahh, alright. Thanks for clarifying it. I'm glad that it's been acknowledged by the staff too.




Wasn't super charged not supposed to be able to amplify Sacrifise as Sacrifise doesn't count as an straight out attack card? A Cyber Void just dealt 2k damage in Round 3 followed up by 4k damage in Round 5.
It was quite painful [:(] I was just wondering seeing as how in the past this was actually a fix, but I guess they could've reverted it back to before?


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Axel459 -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2014 2:59:15)

quote:

Original: TheSage
The deck wont be changing, however Charged and Super Charged are planned to get fixed. It is boosting "spell" cards and not all "attack" cards. once the fix is done cards like sacrifice, blood rage, and life drain will get an attack boost, and cards like meteorite, shadowfire, and chain lightning will not be getting boosted.

It's something that was changed/fixed a couple weeks ago.




The Death Angel -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/17/2014 10:30:36)

Whats the point of starting 2nd? This is the worst thing in Oversoul because you have the biggest handicap I have ever seen in any game. There is no way in hell that anyone would ever desire to go 2nd. Whoever goes 1st is most likely to win the fight from the beginning.
Level difference can be handled, but when a lvl 16 starts the fight against a lvl 12 thats when I get absolutely furious. In general, I don't see why RNG should decide whether you win before you even draw your first hand or not.

Heck, in games like Hearthstone, the person to go 2nd gains something like an extra card or extra charge. In this game, it's an absolute handicap that makes no sense at all. This is something I actually outright expect to be adressed sometime.
This is the stupidest part of PvP and makes me outright furious. Playing 20 PvP matches and you go 2nd in all of them and whether I win or lose, it's not tolerable to go 2nd. I might as well just stop PvP'ing if it continues like this. It doesn't make any sense to have the person
who goes 2nd have such a huge handicap.




Blackshock -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/17/2014 10:52:11)

we could fix that by giving the second player to go a little boost in initial charge as to catch up with the first player




megakyle777 -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/17/2014 10:57:17)

The problem with that is when stats are implemented. There is (according to a VERY old DN so plans may have changed) a speed stat that determines who goes first. So if you wanna go first, train that. Course, it may not matter if you train crit or health (I can't quite recall the stats but I know speed was one of them).




EliteWarlockz -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/17/2014 11:00:59)

I agree. But they could do a 50/50 can chance instead of first one to send.




The Death Angel -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/17/2014 11:04:45)

I'm a bit afraid with stats it's going to end up a bit like EpicDuel, but I can see the reasoning behind this, but it's been well over a year. If stats are not implemented sooner or later, I might go out of my mind.




Jmagician -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/27/2014 16:16:52)

CC needs to be improved. Most of the balance issues regarding cards like Ironhide and Shatter are due to CC allowing them to be spammed.

@below: I'm not sure, since it was a promo. But it would be reasonable to believe so since he is responsible for deck builds.




Gorillo Titan -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/27/2014 16:27:07)

Did Sage come up with Nulgath Shadow's deck?




Tally -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/27/2014 16:55:37)

*Pops in*
Iron Hide was already nerfed, it's fine.
*pops out.*




The Jop -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/27/2014 17:00:01)

*pops in*
quote:


Every neutral character I've fought in PvP has used it every turn. How is 1000-1100 defense that regenerates every turn and blocks unblockables balanced? It effectively more than doubles the character's health if you fight long enough. If you put a cap on how many shields can be spammed by ice characters, you should really do something about this, because now neutral characters have the same infinite defense problem (except they can also block unblockables). I recommend it blocking 1000-2000 damage for one turn only, even if you want to lower the cost for that. It being temporary makes no difference; most players charge to the cap so they can regenerate at least enough for iron hide every turn, while using neutralize and their excess energy to use other cards.

That's the thing, it completely blocks most DoTs. When one card can completely counteract a whole type of character, there's a problem. Not many characters are purely offensive anyway, and neutral characters can always put up counterattacks to deal with them. Neutral has a way to deal with everything, so it should have some kind of disability to put it on par with other elements. That would have been its high costs for cards, but neutralize makes it very easy to get energy back. I'm okay with putting neutralize back at discarding 3 cards for 10 energy, so that iron hide might not be spammed as much. However, I still think iron hide is the main problem and making iron hide require more cards would just hinder dual element characters. More energy efficient shields that block everything and can be kept up throughout the battle are too powerful. I don't think it should last for 2 turns. Even having it as 2000 for one turn would be like a one turn stun or significantly reduce the damage done that turn. It's still more efficient than shields and it can block any attack including unblockables, but it would no longer be able to be used nonstop. I mean, if there's any defense card you can use nonstop, there's a problem. That's why a cap was set for shields, because ice characters could set up defense that could not be taken down (but at least unblockables worked against those).

Plus the ratio for iron hide would actually be 4:1 since it puts up 1000 (or 1100) shields each turn for 2 turns equaling 2000 (or 2200) shields for 5 energy, and you can see what that does to DoTs. So it's more than double the efficiency of regular shields and it can be (and normally is) used throughout the fight. It's more than double the efficiency (4 times the energy normally, and 4.4 for CC iron hide) of shields, blocks unblockables, and can be used every turn. Even if you couldn't you use CC so you couldn't draw it every turn it would still be overpowered. Now it's just a problem that an overpowered card can be used non-stop, giving a player 1000-1100 defense every turn. And though sometimes DoT-based characters can break through iron hide, all their DoTs are completely useless during every turn they charge and cannot attack.

Characters with Neutralize don't have the problem of only having 5 energy available every turn. It would be possible to slowly take down your enemy like that anyway, but they have energy near the cap when they finish charging at the start of the fight or whenever they use neutralize. I only actually won those battles because there were one or two times you didn't use iron hide. The other times you used it non-stop, and 4 or 5 electric arcs equal 0 damage in that case, since you also had a counterattack so I couldn't attack you normally. But for counterattack, you usually only have to put down one or two to discourage your opponent from attacking because of the massive hit they would take if they did, and the energy they would waste. It's not used as a shield usually, because it's intended to stop the opponent from using normal attacks instead of actually blocking 500 damage.

The card just makes it a struggle to move forward in any battle and that seems like too much. I know people would be complaining if ice characters could reach the cap of 2000 shields every single turn (CC iron hide even goes over the cap), and in that case at least unblockables could still do damage. It being temporary might have been a solution if some characters didn't have 2 of them, and CC made it possible to draw it every turn. I could argue that it's almost as bad as a stun card for the amount damage it blocks, so it shouldn't have been a CC card or have 2 iron hides in one character's deck. Plus it's not a matter of waiting for a neutral character to run low on energy because they use iron hide every turn, since they have the most efficient energy regenerating card.

Anyway, having it be 2000-2200 defense for one turn would still be just as efficient as it as now, except it would make people wait a turn to attack or make them waste a lot of energy to break through the shields (also DoTs would work for that one turn the neutral character is charging at least).

*pops out*




The Death Angel -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/27/2014 17:22:26)

@Tally: Just because it's been nerfed before, doesn't mean it's fine. 1 nerf doesn't necessarily make the card balanced.

My main problem with Iron Hide is mainly that, it does block A LOT of damage, but the bigger issue to me honestly is that it blocks piercing damage and dot damage, unlike Void Reflect etc. You can stall the fight easily, and your opponent can do nothing about it what so ever.
There is really no counterplay to Iron Hide. I just don't understand why it blocks all form of damage with 1k shield for 2 rounds. The way I'd like to see Iron Hide become is that it still shields for 1000 damage, but it does not block Piercing damage.
Perhaps lower the shield to 800 each round too. Basically, it will still block those pesky DoTs, which to me seemed like the original intent with the skill since it regens after being destroyed anyways.

Basically, any character in the game that has Iron Hide are all classed as thé best of their element. Poison Drake (People were talking about Skexis too, and guess what, it has Iron Hide too), Taro, Void Rebirth and Queen Aegea. All other elements does not have a character with Iron Hide yet. I see a very dangerous pattern here.
Basically, any future character with current Iron Hide, will always be classified as the best character, because Iron Hide has no weak point. It's an insanely strong card to play no matter what round, what HP you or your enemy have, how many charges you have etc.
It's just too good overall in its current incarnation. And it's only 5 neutral charges for it too!




Trollok!!! -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/27/2014 17:27:13)

I'd say just raise the cost to the same as that of Counter Attack. Anything more drastic might result in the card being too weak. If the coding were at possible, I'd suggest a 400 HP cost be added to the current cost instead.




TheSage -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (1/27/2014 17:38:52)

The only problem with Ironhide is the abuse of it from CC just like the abuse of Shatters. This is the kind of thing that if the players cant get together and agree that overusing specific cards in CC makes things OPed then nothing will ever be balanced. In every game there are some things that give a person an advantage over the other, abusing that makes the game unfair and a bit boring.

Right now there are no limitations on the cards you can have aside from a total of 5 equipped, if the community keeps saying 1 card is more OP then another due to it being spammed then limitations may be made on what you can and cant equip. While that might sound like a good thing, it can also mean that some cards you can only equip 1 of and i'm sure a lot of you would not be happy abut it.




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