RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (Full Version)

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Dual Thrusters -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/2/2013 18:04:45)

[&:]

Fine.



Mother1 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/2/2013 18:07:46)

@ Dual

The move is fine as is. I fight against cyber hunters who use moderate strength and I see them still get back good energy. Just because a move can't be used against every single build doesn't make the move weak. In fact if it cold be used against every single build well it would be OP (Just like the raw damage Static charge was originally.)




Dual Thrusters -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/2/2013 18:11:14)

Heal can be used against every single build. Does THAT make it OP? No.



Mother1 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/2/2013 18:28:24)

Bad comparison friend.

I was talking about offensive moves not a defensive move like heal.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/2/2013 18:29:09)

Fine, debuffs in general



Now taking in suggestions for Shadow Arts as an active skill.



Mother1 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/2/2013 18:44:03)

A better but still bad comparison.

Debuffs are still going by the delta and before standard in terms of scaling so they are still overpowered. They need to be toned down.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/2/2013 19:13:16)

I would love to talk about debuffs, but I don't want my thread to get locked.



Segawoman -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/3/2013 16:03:02)

quote:

In fact if it cold be used against every single build well it would be OP (Just like the raw damage Static charge was originally.)


Flawed information and not quite. Static Charge isn't really effective when it comes to executing the skill singlehandedly. The only way to get a great kick to it is to use rage with it and we all know that that can easily be blocked by tanky builds and or a Bounty Hunter's Smokescreen. I've seen a hell lot of Cyber Hunters complaining about getting block whilst using Static Charge.

Cyber Hunters have the Malfunction skill which means that they'll reduce the opponent's Technology and Resistance and increases the chance that the opponent is going to get deflected. They don't have Smokescreen which reduces the chance of getting terribly blocked.

Mother is only half right. Dual is nutz. [:D]



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/3/2013 19:23:37)

KUNG ANO ANG I GAWA SA BUHAY KO!!!! >.<

*ahem How about lucky strike affects this skills as a strike-based attack?






Mother1 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/3/2013 20:09:06)

@ dual

Lucky strike only works with strikes nothing else.

@ Segawoman

Back before when static worked with raw damage and not actual damages defenses meant nothing effect wise. All you had to do was connect and you would get a chunk of energy. Only luck would stop static effect if you weren't a merc or blood mage since the other classes has no non luck base counter. You didn't even have to malfuction back then because it worked with your base damage and not actual damage.

it was because anyone who played in delta before the change got a taste of this overpowered version of static (which was even more OP then Assimaltion is now) that most don't like the way static is now. You can actually counter the move with defenses and not luck (since blocks are nothing but luck) if you aren't a merc or blood mage, and now it is more tactical (meaning you have to choose the best time to use it rather then oh hey static is back I can spam it and now it will work against anyone as long as I don't get blocked)

If a move needs to be OP for it to be useful then the move itself is broken. Static fits the bill of this since before it was overpowered, and now everyone complains it is weak since it can be counter by all classes without luck.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/3/2013 20:24:04)

quote:

If a move needs to be OP for it to be useful then the move itself is broken. Static fits the bill of this since before it was overpowered, and now everyone complains it is weak since it can be counter by all classes without luck.


So either reducing the cooldown, giving it a bonus to hit, or increasing the % again would OP it?



Mother1 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/3/2013 21:00:42)

@ dual

in the hands of the right builds or yes it can overpower them in all cases.

Making cooldown lower = more spamming of the move. Energy drains have higher cool downs and wouldn't be able to keep up to counter Static since EMP takes 2 turns atom smash 2, Static smash 3 and Assimilation 3 where as static charge would have 1. So in this case yes it can become overpowered.

Buffing % again can also overpower it as well. Only classes that have a built in counter are Merc and Blood mage with intimidation. Everyone else will need the luck of a block to counter and you know how people feel about luck. In other words they want it gone or controlled which isn't good either.




Predator9657 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/3/2013 21:15:47)

quote:

and you know how people feel about luck


enough said :p



CivilAE -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 3:12:40)

Nice threads, really liking the stuff that has been coming out of balance section lately.

Just have a few suggestions for the new active shadow arts Ex. At Max +10 chance to block with additional +% on connecting strike/strike base skills/cores. I think it would help BH and Cyber fairly well, although BH doesn't really need it with smokescreen already lowering block chance of player. most likely wouldn't make much more of a difference. (luck/anti-skill)

In addition, It also pairs very well with static charge, since priority still goes toward malfunction, getting the most out of static and reducing its chance to get blocked with the assist of another invested skill. Malf not having the same synergy between CH and itself in comparison to BH and smoke(Smoke, nerf blocks/physical defense, with bloodlust strikes and heals are increased + reduce chance to be blocked).CH lowers chance to be deflected, which is neat, but it doesn't change the fact that its meant to be a more tactical mixed attacker still have skillz like cheap shot which generally doesn't get much priority on most CH builds I've seen anyway.

Other possibilities:
-Lowers chance to be deflected
-Minimal Support increase(Max +10)
-Minnimal Strength increase(Max like +10)



Segawoman -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 3:34:15)

quote:

Back before when static worked with raw damage and not actual damages defenses meant nothing effect wise.


Sorry but was does that have to do with the present time?

And sorry for this but why do you need to recap the past when we are trying to suggest for the future when the present is needed for correction?

This might have been the case in Delta but it's now the era of Omega.



Mother1 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 3:44:38)

@ Segawoman

It was the only time no one complained about static being weak. The moment static was put to actual damage that was when everyone cried the move is weak, and this thread is even more proof of that? (the complaints that static is weak.)



Segawoman -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 3:56:47)

quote:

It was the only time no one complained about static being weak


Let's move on to our time and not the fossilized ages. [sm=icezard.gif]

I was surprised when the devs decided to reduce the amount of damage getting block with 100% going down to 85%.

At that point, I was thinking surely Static Charge would be a hell lot better when blocked when it only generates 1+ Energy rage and non-rage against most tanky builds or non? I don't think so.

You might say Static Charge was OP back then and yes it was.

quote:

The moment static was put to actual damage that was when everyone cried the move is weak


Where was the change and exactly why this needs a minor buff.




Mother1 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 4:01:45)

quote:

Where was the change and exactly why this needs a minor buff.


you don't think getting a 7% increase at all levels wasn't a minor buff?



Segawoman -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 4:06:01)

quote:

you don't think getting a 7% increase at all levels wasn't a minor bufF


I wasn't talking about % increase I was talking about use in battle.

This is why when blocked, that 7%+ you speak of, never exists!


k[;)]

For Reroute you don't see people saying - 'Aw man that guy got blocked and now I only regained 1+ Energy!'
But how does that put the player in a disadvantage when they blocked an attack?



Mother1 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 4:08:55)

@ segawoman

Static charge has always been like this since day one. Only difference now is that you actually get something even when blocked unlike before when you would get nothing due to blocks negating all damage.

Reroute has it's flaws as well. If I have full energy the passive is worthless, also when you blocked your opponent you also originally got nothing until they changed the block system.

Problem I see here is that everyone wants a 100% grantee that they will have something effective no matter what. While there are moves that work like this in the game that are balanced others don't. If they did they would be overpowered.



Segawoman -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 4:14:36)

quote:

The same could be said of static smash as well since when blocked you don't get much energy back from it either.


Uh, Static Smash completely drains 2/3 of your Energy and converses 75% to the user's slot.

How does Static Charge compare to that?
As you said, bad comparison, friend.

Static Smash goes up to 70%+ conversion and Static Charge only goes up 30%+, Idk.
It would be the same if blocked but how about comparing the effects if it isn't blocked.



Mother1 -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 4:17:05)

@ segawoman

73% at max for static smash and 37% for static charge to be exact.

but what I was getting at was that static smash and Static charge are both percent based. So by them both getting blocked only 15% of the effect goes through. That was what I was getting at with that.

But if you want to compare lets.

Static smash

Cost no energy
does no damage
grants no rage unless blocked
has a 3 turn cool down
converts up to 73% energy drained at max

Static charge

Costs no energy
Does damage
grants rage more rage if blocked
has a 2 turn cool down
converts 37% of damage into energy at max

So while static smash does give more energy you do no damage while doing it, you gain no rage unless you are blocked and the move has a higher cooldown. Also if your opponent has no energy this move can't be used.

While Static charges gives you less energy, you gain rage from it, you do damage to your opponent while gaining energy back, you have a shorter cooldown period, and to top it off this move is always usable as long as it is off cooldown and can be raged.

So while static charge gives less energy back then static smash the other things it can do compensates for it.



Segawoman -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 4:21:39)

Uh Static Smash does both deplete and regain and in a very high %.

And all you can do is rage Static Charge which doesn't even get on the level Static Smash is on.

Even when it inflicts damage, how does this move's purpose grow forward?

And I don't need exact %'s when clearly I was stating bases.



CivilAE -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 4:54:40)

Oh my goodness, I would say static is find as it is, Cyber is just lacking some skill synergy, static is a better skill coupled with something like smokescreen rather than malfunction . That being its just cybers offensive end that is struggling the most, since static is the designated driver of those builds.

Buffing the percent anymore won't make it anymore effective on blocks anyhow.




Segawoman -> RE: Evolution is Necessary: Cyber Hunter Edition (8/4/2013 5:09:00)

quote:

Cyber is just lacking some skill synergy

quote:

better skill coupled with something like smokescreen rather than malfunction


How do you think that Static Charge is fine as it is when you think that you're stating the Cyber Hunter's synergy when you're actually stating the problems for Static Charge and how synergy and the debuff significantly affects how it works?





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