Passive Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (Full Version)

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King FrostLich -> Passive Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 10:40:31)

I've been playing this game for over almost 4 years(2nd longest game that I've ever played) and I'm noticing servers are going downer and downer and downer because of the recent balance updates. Mostly was from the health nerf, block nerf and certain promos that change gameplay way too drastically. The next thing I'm thinking about is the passive skill nerf which is said to roll in once this war is over. Is there any main significance why this balance is needed? With lower health and no passives to protect us from first turn debuffing attacks, I'm worrying even more of the battles that are soon to come.


Take into account most people use quick kill builds to end battles quickly while certain players who want to counter this become tanks to try and outlast these strength users. Of course, some of you might be thinking if passives were to be nerfed for all classes, wouldn't it be a lose-lose situation and therefore be still in the "equlibrium" state that ED is in? Simply, no. Though every class greatly needs their own passives to have their advantage, there are certain classes that don't need them once this certain update is live. Glass Cannon TM's for example, despite also needing reroute don't actually need mana to kill their enemy. They only need a certain amount of mana to use malfunction and then bludgeon if used as a last resort. Mercenaries, although nerfing hybrid armor and adrenaline, they can become increasing problems when becoming strength or support users. Add static smash with the reroute nerf and this can even cause more problems than where we are now. Caster TM's will rely more on assimilation but they go for lower leveled plasma bolt to prevent this.


As for those that will get badly nerfed during the update, majority of the builds around that try not to be those that I mentioned above will become even become less effective in dealing the soon-to-rise OP builds. 5 focus builds also get one of the most painful blows. Why? Because they mostly rely on passives and is currently one of the few flexible builds that has the chance to defeat tanks and glass cannons alike. As far as I'm concerned, making new cores and new artwork for armors and weapons is just ridiculous compared to balancing or even focusing on the war. Though it has no effect of gameplay at all since every weapon and armor has the same power,(except promo items that have promo-only cores) it's a complete waste of time and could have been used to think of ways to balance the game AND add more incentive than just reskins, returning gear(just like today's update) and more cores that cause more advantage.


I'm not going to mention more builds that are going to get badly nerfed or get slight nerfs but if you do post about it, I'm fine to state my own opinion or any supporting evidence from past updates.



IMPORTANT NOTE: I'm not trying to suggest anything to make things balanced or even unbalanced, I'm just pointing its flaws of what might or might not happen.




Mother1 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 10:56:26)

@ King

I know how you feel about this, and with this depending on how they do it I see many builds getting nerfed, and offensive builds getting a buff from this. However at the same time the staff has had this planned for the longest, and if they already started doing the work for this they aren't going to cancel it cause some people don't like the idea.

Some people wanted this to happen for a while because passives are a must have for most builds. I believe those people felt that with this change more variety will surface since must have passives won't be must haves, as well as the indirect nerf of overpowered builds.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 12:49:31)

given how aggressive the style of play is now due to the game's balance, this will only make passives useless (i guess they can consider it an achievement?)

people will not waste a turn activating something such as reroute when fights are all offense these days.

if you only have 3-5 turns to fight, you think you're gonna use a passive?

this will just stink of str/support tech mages all over again (because they didn't need passives)




CN2025 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 19:09:42)

deadly aim was pretty deadly to me if they take that away im gona beat tm easy




Dual Thrusters -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 19:37:43)

My only problem with deadly aim is that it powers up Azreal's Will.




Chosen 0ne -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 19:52:49)

@mother

If the staff prepared something horribly game changing that nobody liked and they followed through with it I would quit. Because obviously that would mean that they don't care about the community. If this is the way ED is run, please tell me.

Just because they've already started something shouldn't matter.





Mother1 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 20:09:12)

Chosen

It was posted in the design notes sometime before the dreaded war that they would be turning passives into active skills. Eventually they decided to delay it until after the end of the war. But seriously though there were some people who were suggesting this because they felt passives were a must have that needed to be dealt with.




Chosen 0ne -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 21:07:50)

The problem with Epic Duel is that there's a vey small number of people representing the entire community.

I like to think of forumnites as representatives. We represent the ED community and part of the guilt is somewhat on us for not saying what needs to be said.

We need to be careful what we ask for, because everything the Devs do has been suggested in some way or another.

If you guys can, try not to represent just yourself and aim to represent what's best for epic duel and what the community as a whole would like for the game. It's a simple change that can make our community an outstanding one.




Dual Thrusters -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 21:13:58)

Actually G00NY first suggested this idea, his statement being " Passives are must-haves for too many builds."




Chosen 0ne -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 21:18:54)

If you guys think removing NPC wins effected the community, The passive change will be devastating and is gonna do more harm than good. It is my personal opinion that if you make this switch it will be the worst thing we will ever see in ED history.

The community as a whole like their Passives and want to keep them as passives.

This change isn't something that would push me to quitting but I'm sure lots of people will. Passives are what defines different classes. If this change happens I will be incredibly disappointed.




King FrostLich -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 21:25:39)

quote:

Of you guys can, try not to represent just yourself and aim to represent what's best for epic duel and what the community as a whole would like for the game. It's a simple change that can make our community an outstanding one.


Becauase of ED's history of bad updates, nerfs that lead to more nerfs and certain unnecessary balance nerfs, the community(even myself) is not willing to represent a game that has constantly been putting balance down for 3 years with some issues that are left unresolved for months. Yeah sure it's really tempting to say we should but what's the point if updates keep letting people's builds down?




Nexus... -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 21:38:27)

The entire point of a passive (in most games I have played) is it defines the heart of the class, and gives something to that class that they can rely upon consistently. Making passives actives really seems to have very little basis, and will probably make things even worse. Furthermore, why this balance change? There are so many other things the staff could work on that would further this game in greater ways than this conversion would. Makes very little sense to me, but so do most things the devs do these days.


For example, why not replace BM, CH, passives with something unique, or work on new multi's and ultimates for the newer classes?


Whatever.


Prophet




Bionic Bear -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 22:07:33)

Quite honestly, I like my wonderful mineral armor and reroute as they are. I apologize for contradicting the devs decision, but passives should not be turned into actives. They are a must-have for every class.




Mother1 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 22:34:29)

@ Bionic bear

which was why some people wanted them gone. They feel it restricts verity and diversity, and without them there will be more.

Problem with that only a few builds I have seen work without passives Cough offensive builds Cough will be left unaffected while every other build that isn't pure offense will get nerfed.

If they do this the masses will 9 times out of 10 flock to strength support TM, Strength Merc, Support Merc Etc and every other build that could somewhat function with their passives will have a much harder time competing against them. It will become be pure offense or die.




CN2025 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 22:40:13)

they could make more cores in the form of actives instead of replacing passive skill slots isn't that what cores were made for instead of fixing classes and making new ones.

removing passive would be like taking varium away and i can tell you straight up that its not going to affect the community in a good way

they should focus on making daily missions to give players some thing to do




Bionic Bear -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 22:44:49)

@mother
If simply offensive builds were the only builds anle to be used without the help of passives, this game would be nothing but whoever can kill their opponent first. There would be no diversity, no strategy (and that is what worries me most) and there would be no need to even look at the orher player's stats. If that would be the by-product of changing passives into actives, I do not support this upcoming update.




Chosen 0ne -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 23:16:43)

@Bionic
quote:

I apologize for contradicting the devs decision,


You do NOT need to apologize for disagreeing with the devs. This is not a dictatorship and you are entitled to your opinion. Epic Duel does not need all of it's small community to suck up to the devs. Epic Duel needs to instead tell the devs exactly what they need to know in order to fix things. So disagree and say WHY you disagree, that's the most important part.

Regarding this issue, if users feel they are restricted by their passives I have only one question. Why?

How can you be restricted by it if you're using it because its a good skill?

It's the opposite of restriction, it makes you better.




Mother1 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 23:25:18)

@ chosen

The reason that was said the most was "They are a must have for every build. If one skill (with the exception of field medic) is needed for any and all builds to work then something is wrong with it."




Nexus... -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/24/2013 23:57:54)

Once again, the (balance) issue at hand has very little to do with passives, and a lot more to do with the current mechanics in the game...but if they think making passives active will change something for the better, let them try...I'm not surprised this was suggested by G00NY, as it sounds like they are leaning for passives to work similarly to how the original hybrid armor used to work (slight variation). However, what they fail to realize is that SOME passives aren't defensive, and will result in vulnerability (to high damage builds) and the loss of a turn.


Prophet




Dual Thrusters -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/25/2013 0:17:53)

Reroute, Bloodlust, and Hybrid armor are the only must-haves. Every other passive isn't always worth investing in (ex. Adrenaline, Shadow Arts, Deadly Aim).




CN2025 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/25/2013 0:32:08)

@dual thrusters you read my mind bro




goldslayer1 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/25/2013 1:34:59)

i disagree with this change (and i talked with G00NY and told him why)

quote:

The entire point of a passive (in most games I have played) is it defines the heart of the class, and gives something to that class that they can rely upon consistently. Making passives actives really seems to have very little basis, and will probably make things even worse. Furthermore, why this balance change? There are so many other things the staff could work on that would further this game in greater ways than this conversion would. Makes very little sense to me, but so do most things the devs do these days.


For example, why not replace BM, CH, passives with something unique, or work on new multi's and ultimates for the newer classes?


Whatever.


Prophet

i liked that first sentence because its true in many cases.
i remember in gamma where mercs were often seen as the "tanks" class because of its passive.
all this will do is force people not to use the passive and change class/builds that already have other effective and offensive skills.

i really want people to think how useless this will be.

just think of this scenario, Focus BH vs str/support mage

1st turn: mage uses malfunction (mage will most likely have higher support thus higher 1st turn chance)
2nd turn: BH uses bloodlust
3rd turn: mage uses azrael gun to force a strike
5th turn: mage uses aux for the kill

do you see what i mean? this only gets worse for classes with multiple passive (real passives, not SA)




Chosen 0ne -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/25/2013 2:37:39)

@Goldslayer

Dont forget alignment battle gear! Especially if you're a legion player.

Mage: Malf
Bh: Bloodlust
Mage: Azrael force strike gun
bh: Strikes
Mage: Legion battlegear/exile battlegear.

That bh is dead and mad about the game.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/25/2013 2:47:04)

@chosen
:o i guess that only makes things worse.

theres also uppercut so full offense builds can be made for other classes.




Dual Thrusters -> RE: Passives Skills to Active Skills? Is this even needed? (8/25/2013 10:14:55)

@chosen

Well we don't know how the new Bloodlust will work. It could be a frenzy with no energy cost and no cooldown.




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