RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Azan -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/14/2014 19:07:46)

I could see the String of Lights skill become something like the You Are Here trinket. "Your enemy shines like a Frostval Tree, making it easier to hit!" Enemy defences reduced. Would be useful for monsters with shields.



Ash -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/15/2014 19:06:08)

quote:

Attack
120% damage

Wreath
+140 Melee/Magic/Pierce


Spirit Burst
Two hits. 80% damage on each hit for 160% damage total.
All other skills except Attack and Spirit Burst have a 10% chance to proc "Frostval Spirit". This increases the damage of Spirit Burst to 100% on each hit and causes it to heal player mana for 10% max mana.


Blind
135% damage
Lowers enemy bonus by -50 for 3 turns.
Has a 20% chance to instead lower bonus by -100 for 1 turn and then -50 for 2 more turns.


Candy Crane Kick
120% damage
3 turn stun.


Yule Tide
1 hit of 125% damage to all enemies


Twig
3 hits of 50% damage each for 150% damage total.
+75 Bonus on each hit.


Warmth
Fire Locked
130% damage
4 turn 60% Weapon Damage DoT effect.


Ornament Shatter
140% damage
Applies a nerf to opponent's M/P/M. (Note: Values do not stack)
-100 for 2 turns,
-50 for 2 additional turns,
-25 for 2 additional turns.


Fruitcake Brick
160% damage
100% chance to crit


Gingerbread Invasion
5 hits of 25% damage for 125% damage total.
Each hit that connects heals you for 5% of your total health.


Evergreen
4 turn cooldown reduction


Horrible Gift
145% damage.
Rolls for one of the following
- Nerfs enemy Bonus by -30 for 3 turns
- Buffs self Boost by +15 for 3 turns
- Nerfs enemy Boost by -20 for 3 turns
- Buffs your Bonus by +25 for 3 turns
- Buffs your Boost by +20, your bonus by +25, nerfs enemy Boost by -20, and enemy bonus by -30.


Missile Toe
1 hit of 125% damage to all enemies


Spirit of Giving
9 hits of 40% damage each for 360% total damage.



Azan -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/15/2014 21:50:16)

quote:

Ornament Shatter
140% damage
Applies a nerf to opponent's M/P/M. (Note: Values do not stack)
-100 for 2 turns,
-50 for 2 additional turns,
-25 for 2 additional turns.

I like that very much! [:D]

Though I feel two multi skills doing exactly the same thing seems... quite redundant. Random idea... why not have Missile Toe do something like:

125% dmg to one target.
If foe is suffering from the Warmth DoT, attack inflicts 225% damage. "The flames surrounding your foe makes the explosion even deadlier!"



Ash -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/15/2014 22:04:22)

That would come at the cost of losing the ability to loop multi's. That was something the original was able to do and was one of the lesser broken things about it that I was able to leave in.



Drop_Bear -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/15/2014 22:20:01)

When I first started using the Frostmoglin revamp I wasn't so sure I liked it but with a bit of use and the guaranteed crit/stun swap it's really grown on me.
I can Comfortably say this has been another amazing revamp.

The class used to be much simpler with multiple nukes on short cool down and defensive moves that did not need to be used in tandem
These were a shield that when combined with evergreen became a near infinite loop and a blind that did become one.
This created a very simple play style where a few hard hitters and a defence move was all that was necessary.

Now the class has become more complex needing many more of its moves to be used to be effective with shorter durations and longer cool downs before.
This is a good thing.

The class plays much like pumpkin lord does with slight differences to make it unique linking the holiday classes.
To name a few similarities both are comprised of: a crit nuke, a non crit nuke, two multi's, hp and mana healing, a 1 turn cool down filler damager, a boost draining move and many of the basics for classes
This gives both classes very good damage to deal with any combination of mobs in a speedy fashion with some of the best versatility of the classes (multi triples and weaker doubles, nuke singles and stronger doubles) while having the sustain to get through those longer quests. These two classes don't appear to be the most defence oriented but are still more than adequate in that regard.

The infamous "twig nerf" is a bit sad but the class was only going to have two nukes and considering animation times I for one am happy twig was delegated to accuracy.
The Infinite Blind was amazing but hurt complexity where now you have to think what your doing to achieve permanent protection making it necessary for a balanced class.

The only change I would personally make is extending the shield duration one turn. As others have said it has a long cool down (works well because of evergreen) with a very short duration. I personally envisaged the shield as a long lasting but long cool down variant that in 50 turns will end up protecting the user for a smaller period of time but needed to be used less. This would be alterable with evergreen making it usable more often but having to take time out to reduce the cool down. If a normal shield lasts 2 turns with a 4 turn cool down then this one would last three turns with a 9 turn cool down or even 4 turns with a 12 turn cool down.

Either way the pumpkin lord shield is the exact same duration and close enough effect but with half the cool down, I feel 1 more turn of effect even with an increase to 9 instead of 8 turn cool down and an increased mana cost (used less often) would be appropriate.

Well thought out reasoning that has defendable points. Adjusted to 3 turns/9CD/38MP. The 4 turn reduction with Evergreen was the main reason why the skills had a little higher of a CD on some while not getting the bit higher MP costs they should have. ~Ash

In regard to the melee/pierce/magic effect, pumpkin lord also does all three and I have never been fond of the idea that the shield is completely useless against the odd mob but that's personal preference.

Whatever happens I have found the frostmoglin class to be a great rebalance and will be proud to list it a tied second place with pumpkin lord for my most effective farming and questing classes.

EDIT: Please don't touch the multi's, looping them is one of the classes best features =o



Azan -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/15/2014 22:32:33)

Yes, I know that would come with the loss of the looping multis. Personally, I'd prefer this effect (or another really cool effect for Missile Toe) to a multi, but if you want to keep the looping multis, I won't mind. That was only a suggestion to make every skill really unique. Other than that small detail (which is, again, only my personal opinion), the class is really awesome and very nice to play around with. Agreed with Drop_Bear, this is another amazing revamp.



Drop_Bear -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/15/2014 23:34:49)

Thanks Ash, that would be amazing =).

Should be live. Clear your cache and relog. If you see the magical hand with stuff coming out of it for Giving's Icon you have the newest version. ~Ash

EDIT: Checked and the change is there, the shield looks amazing now and the mana cost change is very fair, there is nothing I would want to change in this class now - has perfect synergy within itself. Ash deserves extra presents this frostval.



crabpeople -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/17/2014 14:20:26)

Zealot: Lord Vatrith, what does the scouter say about his cuteness level?
Valtrith: It's over 9000!

Ok joking aside the class is pretty good overall. It felt to me very similar to the technomancer class but with more single target damage and somewhat more defensive (maybe because it's less stun reliant).

I tested the damage values given by Ash and the only difference I found is at the horrible gift skill. The guide says 145% wep damage and in my case it did 100% (except in 1 case where I got 120% but that's beacause the dmg boost effect did proc).

I didn't use the armor that much so I haven't seen the passive yet. Moreover I have a few questions about it:

-
quote:

This increases the damage to 100% on each hit
. What does that mean? Each hit does an extra 100% weapon damage (for example I use the blind. Would it be 135% + 100%?) or you do double damage on each hit (in case of the blind example 135% X 2)?

-What happens if you proc the passive while using a defensive move like wreath? You only get the mana regen?

Edit: Ok I read it wrong [:D]. I understand it now ty.



Ash -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/17/2014 14:26:19)

I'll check gift's damage. It may not be pulling the right amount.

It means instead of two hits of 80% you do two hits of 100%. So 200% damage total instead of 160%.

No, the proc only affects what Spirit does. You use any other skill -> you get Frostval Spirit -> You use Spirit Burst -> You heal 10% mana and then deal 200% damage instead of 160%. Nothing happens when the passive activates other than it tells the game to do something different when you use Spirit Burst the next time.



The_element -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/17/2014 17:26:02)

I'm glad strings of light's name is now changed to ornament shatter, the effect actually seems relevant now. Before, a weakness seeker seemed so bad and completely random for the animation.

Anyway, even though the infinite blind has been removed, the defensive prowess of the class has actually dramatically increased (mainly due to the change to wreath and certain weaknesses being mitigated). If you use the class cleverly you can have a constant defence (loop shield and blind with evergreen), where you are practically guaranteed of taking no damage. As well as this, the class is now a boss slayer, before the problem with the class was that in hard mode there was a chance of running out of MP, but now because of the passive allowing a 10% MP heal on a 'Frostval Spirited' Burst, with a bit of luck you won't run out of MP. Due to the fact the blind does not need to hit to get its effect- the class has lost a certain disadvantage it had previously on hard mode, if the blind missed, then the class was defenceless. Due to blind not needing a successful attack and wreath always being successful, the looping with evergreen means you are LITERALLY guaranteed a full defence, with only 50+ melee def, for most cases you are cannot be touched, the shield combined with your own melee defence means the monster has to have ridiculous bonus to hit to even get an attack. Considering how very few monsters/bosses have significant bth (say roughly 50*), if FMA wanted, it could attack bar to death.

I literally beat an impossible doom crawler with the Testing Blade with FULL HP and didn't even need to use a single stun. On greater inspection of the class, some of the apparently OP skills have been removed with even more broken combos. I know that I was initially wrong with the class; now that I've used FMA properly, it's defensively stronger than necromancer and dragonlord. Due to the fact that a very small percentage of monsters in the game have a high bth, in 99.9999% of cases FMA would be better than dragonlord. In general, it doesn't even matter if a certain skill is slightly too strong, all that matters is how broken certain combos are... I don't think the tiering system by itself used can approach this problem properly for balancing classes- there needs to be some in depth criteria looking at what combos can be pulled off that shouldn't be pulled off.


Anyway, offensive wise, the skills that I 'spam' are Warmth, Burst and surprisingly, Horrible Gift. The class can out some nice damage.




*I used 50 because that's the average value required to cancel your own melee def



Dart Ichimonji -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/17/2014 22:30:57)

Not a fan of the armor itself, but that's really just my personal preferences more than statistics. Though I gotta admit, the gingerbread man skill was pretty sweet

I feel like a baked goods necromancer



Mordred -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/18/2014 0:05:48)

quote:

Horrible Gift
145% damage.
Rolls for one of the following
- Nerfs enemy Bonus by -30 for 3 turns
- Buffs self Boost by +15 for 3 turns
- Nerfs enemy Boost by -20 for 3 turns
- Buffs your Bonus by +25 for 3 turns
- Buffs your Boost by +20, your bonus by +25, nerfs enemy Boost by -20, and enemy bonus by -30.

Any particular reason for this small discrepancy? I understand that the final one is clearly the best because you get all the effects, but why make the damage boost slightly larger and only that?



The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/19/2014 22:02:20)

Uh, this might be a bit late, but could you add a messagebox to enhanced Spirit Burst, or something else to indicate that it's especially powerful?
"The spirit of Frostval resonates within you!" or something like that.



Ash -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/19/2014 22:36:48)

I can add that. Might not go out tonight or tomorrow but it'll get implemented. I didn't think about it when I was doing the passive.

There's another full week for testing so you're still good to poke at stuff.



Section_8 -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/22/2014 0:04:42)

Looks like it's been rebalanced quite nicely. It's been a long, long time since I used the original armour, but I seem to remember blowing up dragons with Giving like every three turns or so. Also recall not using half the skills since they did little to nothing, and Twig being really strong. Also, the cookie thing took forever to heal.

The revamped cookie is great, as it heals you immediately. Took me awhile to notice my health going up, though, since I'm used to the big "you healed X amount" number appearing over the avatar's head.

Giving is still hilariously overpowered (OHKO to most werewolves with a Silver weapon) but only if you've got a high-crit build and an elemental weakness to exploit. Otherwise, it's useful and funny.

The "nerf opponent's ability to dodge" thing could be situationally useful against some bosses, assuming you hit with it before they put their shields up. Otherwise, I can't see it getting that much use. Not surprising, as this is the case with pretty much every attack in that slot. Certainly much better than a light-locked attack, given the proliferation of light weapons.

Spirit burst is still a decent double-hit, even with the damage reduction. The whole random "spirit of giving" thing is great, as it it encourages me to actually use this attack more often.

Crane kick now has a point. 'Nuff said. Previously, it was the button you clicked if you wanted disappointment. Animation is still kinda meh, but the idea of stunning an opponent by kicking them in the gro—I mean, shin— is rather amusing.

Presents now not only have a point but have variety. I approve.



The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/22/2014 18:17:31)

Also regarding the Ornament skill, does it reduce defenses before or after the hit?

If its primary purpose is to shut down monsters that are trying to endlessly shield, the skill would be pretty pointless if it needed the hit to connect to inflict the debuff (because then it wouldn't hit them to apply the effect in the first place), even if that makes narrative sense :T



Ash -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/22/2014 18:24:07)

It shouldn't need to actually "hit" to inflict since even thematically if you miss they'll still get hit with the pieces of glass and need to pull them out. It would still apply after the "hit/miss" though because that's when the application coding applies things but I'll double check and make sure it's not an "must hit to apply."



deather98 -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/24/2014 16:23:19)

@ash I don't know if you've answered this yet but when can we save the new armor design of FMA?



Ash -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/24/2014 17:44:15)

This Friday when the release rolls I'll move it to the live version for you all to save.



DarkLore -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/25/2014 3:37:28)

Hey Ash. Any chance FM could have its name changed to just Frost Moglin. NPC's have been calling us a Frost Moglin Armor for years now.



11eo1 -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/27/2014 15:51:30)

For Gingerbread Invasion, the description says "Gigner bread men attack and heal you"



Ash -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/27/2014 15:58:41)

DarkLore - You aren't actually a Frost Moglin though. When you wear other armors you're a Necromancer or a DoomKnight so it makes sense to call you that but when you put on FMA you don't actually turn into a Frost Moglin. We could come up with a different name for it though.

11eo1 - Will correct that here in a bit. Surprised no one noticed that sooner.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/27/2014 16:34:36)

Frost Moglin Warrior/Frost Moglin Knight? Frostvale Defender? Protector of All Things Merry and Fluffy? Hug-o-mancer? Weird Dude in Giant Moglin Suit? The options are endless, really.



deather98 -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/27/2014 17:06:58)

is the live version released yet?

Yes. ~Ash



Azan -> RE: =DF= Frost Moglin Armor Discussion Thread (12/27/2014 18:36:20)

Frost Moglin Warrior sounds nice to me.

Though, if we ever get another Frostval-themed class, please let it be the Hug-o-mancer In A Ridiculous Sweater. Distraction Passive: Sweater too ugly, Enemy Perma-Blinded! (okay, enough silliness. Though a Hug-o-mancer would really be fun.)



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