EMP Change (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance



Message

rayniedays56 -> EMP Change (9/20/2013 2:47:43)

****
I UNDERSTAND that passives to actives will be implemented before any balance changes! This is JUST A SUGGESTION
****



EMP
Instead of a nerf to this skill, which I feel is another useless bandaid, why don't we completely change it instead?


*EMP now removes a PERCENTAGE of EP, instead of a fixed amount.
*EMP no longer is heightened by ANY stats.
*EMP cost is reduced SLIGHTLY to accomodate new change.

NEW CHANGE:

EMP:
Skill Level
Level 1: 30%
Level 2: 35%
Level 3: 40%
Level 4: 45%
Level 5: 50%
Level 6: 55%
Level 7: 60%
Level 8: 64%
Level 9: 67%
Level 10: 70%
Character Level
Level 10: +1%
Level 15: +1%
Level 21: +1%
Level 28: +1%
Level 35: +1%

EP COST
7 Energy (+1 per skill level increase)
Level 1: 7 Energy
Level 2: 8 Energy
Level 3: 9 Energy
Level 4: 10 Energy
Level 5: 11 Energy
Level 6: 12 Energy
Level 7: 13 Energy
Level 8: 14 Energy
Level 9: 15 Energy
Level 10: 16 Energy

EMP now has a 10% chance to cause Electro Leak, a status effect which "Leaks" the opponents EP by +3 EP for 3 turns.


A 35 BH has a level 4 EMP. They use it against the enemy, who has 72 EP. EMP takes away 45% (Initial) and +5% for level. So, EMp takes away 50%. 50% of 72 is 36. The Enemy loses 36 EP.

Now, lets say the EMP is used, and the opponents EP is drained. In a few turns the EMP is used again. However, the opponent is left with 25 EP. This means that EMP will now take away a percentage of 25 now, and not what they started with.




I reposted this from a similar thread of mine, located HERE.






Seteriel -> RE: EMP Change (9/20/2013 9:16:41)

Rebalancing the buff effect of tech on EMP grenade... ok.
But completely rebuidling/nervng the skill... i have very mixed feelings towards this (sidenote: i played merc and mage classes in the past as well).
So mixed i would actually say "no", because:
- EMP does not steal/convert mana to the hunter
- tech mage/cyber hunter can debuff EMP

EMP is a utility skill meant to counter assimilator/atom smasher/stat abusers, weakening it makes it pointless to use. Please also consider that there
are as many EMP-ers, as there are hunters who don't bother using that skill (low and high level players included).



DarkDevil -> RE: EMP Change (9/20/2013 11:33:27)

actually removing the tech from it will unbalance bountys as tech only holds smoke and emp (and poison but that's req.) so unless another skill is changed to tech which will cause more unbalance tech can't be removed from emp.

also emp is a pure energy destroyer so it is high.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: EMP Change (9/20/2013 11:49:53)

I would not support this because it's not necessarily needed. Nerfing EMP would make CHs extremely weak, and BHs without EMP would have almost no control over energy flow of the fight.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: EMP Change (9/20/2013 18:47:00)

I support a nerf to EMP, but not like this.



Ranloth -> RE: EMP Change (9/20/2013 18:58:32)

From my old Balance Suggestion Thread (very old and outdated):
quote:

EMP with high Tech and even low Level can be quite deadly, or even an overkill, for any build - with Reroute or not & high EP or not. I suggest taking the Tech-improvement away and make it scaled by level + have fixed ranges. So you have to train it to drain more EP instead of now.

Basically, it could start at 5 EP at Lvl 1 and go up by +3, for up to 32 EP at Lvl 10. Then, give it +1 EP every 3 levels, for up to -16 EP at Lvl 1 and -43 EP at Lvl 10 (for Level 35 player). Only an example but it would be effective and there'd be an incentive to upgrade it higher, rather than either abuse Tech or keep it at lower level. Also, EP cost could go down by -1 or -2 too, since it'd be less effective & giving it more raw power isn't needed.



lionblades -> RE: EMP Change (9/20/2013 19:14:27)

not supported, emp cost energy the higher the level AND does not give back any energy it does not do dmg either

It is a energy only destroyer and does not do dmg nor give back energy it should be high
quote:

35 BH has a level 4 EMP. They use it against the enemy, who has 72 EP. EMP takes away 35% (Initial) and +5% for level. So, EMp takes away 40%. 40% of 72 is 28.8. The Enemy loses 29 EP.

A 11 energy costing move to remove 29 energy and does not do any damage? Way overkill.



SKRALL213 -> RE: EMP Change (9/21/2013 3:32:47)

Not supported for all the above reasons.
EMP (just like everyone else has said) only goes after Energy. It does no damage and is able to take away more then 60+ Energy. All it needs is a small little nerf/buff and it will work fine.
Plus I rarely see EMP used much (IMO) by players. (I admit I do use a Level1 EMP). To me its fine just the way it is. Its suppose to help BH and CH counter other players moves like bunker, Plasma Bolt, etc etc..
(IMO) Its basically a game changer.



rayniedays56 -> RE: EMP Change (9/21/2013 17:15:43)

When I made this thread, I felt that it would be too weak. However, after feedback, I couldn't agree with my point more then before.

quote:

Not supported for all the above reasons.
EMP (just like everyone else has said) only goes after Energy. It does no damage and is able to take away more then 60+ Energy. All it needs is a small little nerf/buff and it will work fine.
Plus I rarely see EMP used much (IMO) by players. (I admit I do use a Level1 EMP). To me its fine just the way it is. Its suppose to help BH and CH counter other players moves like bunker, Plasma Bolt, etc etc..
(IMO) Its basically a game changer.



Yes it is a game changer. I feel that an energy drain move should not be able to drain so much EP at so little of a level. I have increased the EP drain on my suggestion, but I still feel EMP should not stay the same that it is. Draining 40+ EP with somewhat high tech on level 4 is quite preposterous.



lionblades -> RE: EMP Change (9/21/2013 18:34:20)

^All skills are game changers including surgical strike etc.
Also, you are suggesting:
quote:

EMP no longer is heightened by ANY stats.

This makes EMP trash compared to static smash and other energy drainers as static even though blockable still improves with str (can take about 40 energy with str abuse) and give energy back
quote:

EMP now removes a PERCENTAGE of EP, instead of a fixed amount
quote:

EMP no longer is heightened by ANY stats.

Say a bounty needs 13 energy for a smoke and he has 20 energy; You are suggesting at lv1 EMP will only take 30% of 20 which is a measly 6 energy reducter. 20-6=14 which is still enough to smoke
To take 6 energy is nearly useless (a gun core energy would be better than to emp 6); all the other energy steal skills improve by a certain stat and some are even unblockable (assimilation)
None of the energy drainers are at a fixed amount (static and even atom smash improves with str as well) so nerfing EMP to this is a bad move
Thus, I do not support nerfing EMP to the ground like this.



rayniedays56 -> RE: EMP Change (9/22/2013 0:20:08)

Are even reading my post?

quote:


EMP no longer is heightened by ANY stats.

This makes EMP trash compared to static smash and other energy drainers as static even though blockable still improves with str (can take about 40 energy with str abuse) and give energy back


Comparing EMP to Static Smash is like comparing Blood Commander's Health Regain to Bloodlusts health regain. Static Smash is an overbuff, to say the least and I feel not quantifiable for use against a comparison.

Right now I am comparing EMP to Assimilation and Atom Smasher.

I am comparing it to assimilation purely because Assimilation takes minor EP away from the opponent even when heightened with strength and, even though it's effect is...abusable, I feel is more in the lines of comparison.

I compare EMP to Atom smash because Atom Smash is a percentage of EP taken away while still having the effect of it blockable. Say a strength TLM has level 6 Atom Smash (64%). This means that a percentage of normal attack damage is used to calculated EP drained. A strength TLM with Atom Smash of 64% and primary damage of 18-22+35 can take away EP of 36-37 EP. It costs little EP to accommodate it's blockable effect.


See why EMP is "NERFED" to the ground, as you say? Everyone who is replying to this post in a negative manner seem to be ONLY comparing it to Static Smash, when they NEED to compare it to a move that is balanced.



Also. The NEW EMP, at the cost of 11 EP on a level 5 EMP (which is 55% for a 35), is VERY justifiable. Points being?

**It's more tactical- Hunters now need to THINK about when to use this skill and they need to heighten it with SP rather than abuse a stat to make it deadly at a lower level.
**It's percentage based, which means players with large EP pools will be drained more, while those with smaller EP pools will be drained less.
**It's UNBLOCKABLE- Right here this means this skill should have been nerfed in the first place. Players who use it are GUARANTEED an EP drain.
**It's cost has been LOWERED to match it's new, non stat heightening status.


quote:

Say a bounty needs 13 energy for a smoke and he has 20 energy

Honestly here, WHAT bounty uses a level 1 Smokescreen? And if they DO use it, why would somebody be concerned, per say? It's 29 Dexterity Points with 90 Technology on a 35, and if they use it once with 20 EP, they cannot use it again.


quote:

You are suggesting at lv1 EMP will only take 30% of 20 which is a measly 6 energy reducter.


I am NOT suggesting that. What I AM suggesting is that a level 1 EMP can now take away 30% (35% on a 35) of the opponents EP pool. The 35% of 20 EP would almost NEVER be used, only in rare occasions when an opponent needs a certain amount.

quote:

all the other energy steal skills improve by a certain stat and some are even unblockable (assimilation)


EMP is ALSO unblockable. The other EP steal moves are all heightened by either primary damage, or a stat that requires SO much it makes almost no difference.

quote:

None of the energy drainers are at a fixed amount (static and even atom smash improves with str as well) so nerfing EMP to this is a bad move


Static Smash and Atom Smash are both at fixed percentage amounts. It's their PRIMARY damage that matters the most. And like I said, comparing Static Smasher to the new EMP is not quantifiable.



Mother1 -> RE: EMP Change (9/22/2013 1:59:55)

quote:

Honestly here, WHAT bounty uses a level 1 Smokescreen? And if they DO use it, why would somebody be concerned, per say? It's 29 Dexterity Points with 90 Technology on a 35, and if they use it once with 20 EP, they cannot use it again.


Have you been playing lately? I see them quite often, and as and the ones I see use it have so much tech is does 30-40 dex removal. Nerfing EMP to what you suggested would give those kinds of hunters free rain which isn't a good thing.

Also I have to ask have you thought about this move for all levels and not just cap level players? At lower levels this move would be extremely weak and not as effective. This would make it even harder for you (if using a lower level account) to counter certain builds.

Support merc's casters, and any other builds that can regain energy would become even more powerful with this change especially at lower levels since these builds rain supreme at those levels.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: EMP Change (9/22/2013 17:45:30)

I don't like this because a level 4 EMP (Which is the level most will use) will take away half of your energy, and its unblock-able with a low energy cost. Doesn't this seem a little OP?



rayniedays56 -> RE: EMP Change (9/22/2013 17:46:00)

quote:

Also I have to ask have you thought about this move for all levels and not just cap level players? At lower levels this move would be extremely weak and not as effective. This would make it even harder for you (if using a lower level account) to counter certain builds.


Why yes I have. The common amount of EP per class is 55 at level 1, correct? Using EMP, then, at say a level 1, as some players would use, would result in this:


Level 15 BH versus a Level 19 Mercenary. The mercenary has 61 EP, and goes first. Going first, they use aux.

Now the BH attacks. Say the BH has a level 2 EMP. That's an initial 35% plus 2% level extra.

The BH has the potential to drain 37% of the Mercs EP.

37% of 61 is a 23 EP drain.

Thats means that the BH used 8 EP to drain 23 EP, which is an EP differential of 15. Honestly, I see no problem with it on the lower levels. It's not overpowered, as EMP can often become, and it's not UNDERPOWERED. as many people are pointing out.


Remember, don't compare this EMP to the old EMP because, honestly, the old EMP was a broken and OP skill.



quote:

I don't like this because a level 4 EMP (Which is the level most will use) will take away half of your energy, and its unblock-able with a low energy cost. Doesn't this seem a little OP?


That's the beauty of it. It can drain 45% of your initlal EP, but every turn that the opponent their skills, their EP drops more and more, which eventually renders EMP useless.



rayniedays56 -> RE: EMP Change (9/22/2013 17:48:24)

DOUBLE POST BY ACCIDENT.


Sowwy. :;(



Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition
0.09375