Bludgeon Balance (Full Version)

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GearzHeadz -> Bludgeon Balance (9/23/2013 17:08:26)

I feel bludgeon, a move used by the mage classes is a bit too strong of a skill for its cost.
My reasoning behind this is as following. The other classes pay a lot more energy for a % damage increase than the mages have to.
For a Hunter class, to get a 31% damage increase, it costs 33 energy. The move is Massacre, level 1. (Note this move can not be blocked)
For a merc class, to get a 33% damage increase, it costs 27 energy. This move is Double Strike, level 7. (Can be blocked)
Also for a merc class, to get a 35% damage increase, it costs 27 energy. This move is Berserker, level 1. (Can be blocked)
For a mage class, to get a 32% damage increase, it costs 16 energy. This move is Bludgeon, level 4. (Can be blocked)

It is a significant advantage percentage wise comparing to cost to damage in comparison to the other classes % damage increase attacks. You may not be able to compare a hunter's % damage increase skill massacre, because it is unblockable, making the cost justified... somewhat.

Discuss if you feel you this skill deserves a higher cost, a % damage reduction, or if it deserves neither. Please justify your reasoning behind your opinion.



ND Mallet -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/23/2013 17:20:59)

It's fine as it is. It's locked to Physical and has a longer cooldown than Double Strike. I also believe it's a tier 2 skill whereas Double is tier 1. Together, this means a merc can spam his skill twice as often as a Mage and he can even get health back from it. Not to mention that with Static Smash he can get energy back to offset the higher energy cost anyways. It's both a blessing and a curse to have an only physical skill. On one hand it gives you diversity but on the other hand it already loses power against TLMs and high dex builds(not to mention those blocks).



Variation -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/23/2013 17:23:18)

I believe the skill is fine the way it is (since it isn't overpowering the TMs/BMs).



AQisFuN -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/23/2013 19:20:02)

Well...Max Rage bludgeon could do at least 60 damage to even those heavy tanks. Bludgeon needs a change. Just because you are using Mage class right now does not mean it should not get nerfed.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/23/2013 19:23:38)

not really overpowered, the only problem I have with it is its lower energy cost for damage boost. If it got a +2 or so base energy cost I think that would do it.



Ranloth -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/24/2013 2:32:22)

quote:

Just because you are using Mage class right now does not mean it should not get nerfed.

ND has raised a valid point, not biased... If I'm seconding his statement, am I biased too - because I'm a BM? My build doesn't involve using Bludgeon, unless my EP is drained and it's all I can use (or Intimidate). <.<



Mother1 -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/24/2013 3:54:31)

It is fine as it is for the following reasons.

1 it is locked to one type of damage unlike the others which makes it less useful since high dex builds and builds with passive physical armor can reduce the damage (unlike with the others since they can subtract from either or depending on the weapon type)

2 For double strike it has a higher energy cost but can be spammed more than bludgeon to compensate for this. Also add to the fact that both classes have ways of getting energy back to keep using this move where as only TM has a way to get back energy while blood mage can't do this so well.

quote:

Well...Max Rage bludgeon could do at least 60 damage to even those heavy tanks. Bludgeon needs a change. Just because you are using Mage class right now does not mean it should not get nerfed.


Not a valid reason to nerf this move. Tell me what melee move when powered up to it's max, the person has decent strength invested into it (80+), isn't blocked and is used with rage isn't going to hit within or close to that range? Remember rage ignores defenses and passive armors and if you maxed something out for damage you are going to hit hard.





King FrostLich -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/24/2013 4:25:18)

Comparing them with other power moves from other classes, bludgeon is used by a class that doesn't have tanking capabilities[BM and TM]and a debuffer that matches its type of damage.[TM] In short, it doesn't really need to be nerfed. However, I do support buffing double strike and berzerker by a small %.

quote:

Well...Max Rage bludgeon could do at least 60 damage to even those heavy tanks. Bludgeon needs a change. Just because you are using Mage class right now does not mean it should not get nerfed.



I have never seen bludgeon reached 60+ damage in Omega. It is only possible to do that if it crits on a person with very low defense but to a merc or tact merc? Maybe if they got smoked, it is possible but still.....the maximum I've seen was about 55 using rage with someone at about 20+ defenses.



huuduy1 -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/24/2013 13:37:58)

I have 1 question about Bludgeon and Double Strike can someone answer
IN ED we have 3 main class are : Merc, Mage and Hunter
We all know they use 3 different weapon
Question : why cheap shop of hunter ( requires wrist blade ) but bludgeon and double strike doesn't ( they can use sword to use that skill )
Solution to nerf bludgeon ( require staff only )



Ranloth -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/24/2013 13:40:11)

Bludgeon was Staff-only but TMs lacked skills that were useable with Sword. Their Energy skills are Staff-only, their Ultimate is Staff-only, Assimilation is Staff-only, and that leaves them with Strike, Malf and Strike. This is the same case for BMs, but they have Intimidate instead.

Next time, please examine the skill trees - because the change from Staff-only to Staff and Sword was done for a reason.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/24/2013 13:55:22)

i think cheapshot is the move that needs replacing. maybe you could make it sword viable and damage ratios like double strike? cos right now bounties cant use many moves without swords( smoke, attack, heal and shields)



DarkDevil -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/24/2013 14:17:16)

mage overload and assimilation and both static smasher and atom smasher and maul require class spec. weps while emp , stun grenade don't require wristblades.
the problem with bountys are the way its made unlike other classes which rely on damage or tanking this one relys on cripling making it the different one in the 6 so it don't usually seem "balanced" from just looking at its damage and defense , beside debuff + penetration + stun + poison + extreemely high blocking + highest energy destroyer ..... so it isn't really about damage and defense.
its "offensive weapon skills" req. spec. wep. because of how strong they are compared to other damage skills (poison needs a buff but i won't discuss this here) so let's put bounty out of this as this isn't about him.
before you say that i am against bounty buff i am bounty myself just against unnecessary discussions.



huuduy1 -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/25/2013 3:05:16)

Then we should replace bludgeon by new spell. So we can solve a problem ( not many TM use blud so we still keep it )



Ranloth -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/25/2013 3:09:14)

So the skill is fine for TM - or so you say - but bad for BM's? Shouldn't you deal with BMs then and the synergy, not nerfing or replacing skills?



DarkDevil -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/25/2013 4:40:17)

blud is considered the mage style attack , you are treating bloodmage as str merc but after all he is a mage so he should keep a part of the mage style.
like saying cyber hunters shouldn't have shadow arts because they don't much use it , yet its a part of hunter style that you can't take.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/25/2013 18:36:22)

I think the skill in itself is fairly overpowered, I mean it has a relatively short cooldown of 2 turns (which is average for many skills of its kind), BUT deals a solid damage boost of about 1 extra damage per energy point, give or take 1 or 2. Double strike, while having a very short cooldown, comes nowhere near this when considering its increased energy cost and weakened damage, and cheap shot is almost always better replaced by an EMP.



toopygoo -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/25/2013 18:56:32)

yeah. especially since strength builds have become so popular in BM and TM's the skill has gottena little out of hand. im thinking seperate the two... make mages cost a litlle more cause they can regen way easier, and mage BM's like 3-5% weaker, but keeping the lower cost.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/25/2013 22:27:06)

@Toopy

3-5% reduction is about 1-2 damage less ._.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/25/2013 22:55:01)

Increase the amount of energy Bludgeon needs or remove it, having 2 skills that increase dmg by 28% doesn't work.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/25/2013 23:14:50)

My only suggestion to... not really balance this skill, would be to increase the cost by about 1-3 energy points.



lionblades -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/26/2013 17:49:45)

this is only because all the other builds were nerfed directly (Str merc) and indirectly (hp nerf)... Bludgeon is fine based on damage terms but the BM synergy is arguably the best in game right now because all the other builds synergy were nerfed..
I can foresee another class being "OP according to the masses" if BM is nerfed



Mother1 -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/26/2013 18:44:00)

@ Lionblades

that is what happens when one build is nerfed or a skill is nerfed. Whatever was kept in check by said build takes it place and then that becomes overpowered. It is a cycle that I doubt will be ending anytime soon.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/27/2013 1:08:51)

quote:

Bludgeon is fine based on damage terms but the BM synergy is arguably the best in game right now because all the other builds synergy were nerfed..
I can foresee another class being "OP according to the masses" if BM is nerfed


Actually no, it is not fine. If you take the raw skill and find the damage-energy cost ratio, it's ridiculously high for a skill of its tier and cooldown. Previously in delta the damage was +10 damage for 10 energy, which is honestly amazing because not even massacre offered a cheap conversion of such magnitude. Now, it's +9 damage for 10 energy, but little has changed. If you stacked on 6 bludgeons (energy cost of max massacre) you will be gaining considerable damage increases, beyond points of being ridiculous. 6 bludgeons is a total +54 damage, whereas I believe max massacre on wrist blades is only about +40-41 damage or less. While this is a somewhat obscured comparison, it just shows the damage conversion compared to another very strong %-based skill. As far as I know of, the second-bast %-based skill in terms of damage-energy cost ratio is zerker, which is still only around +12-ish damage for 27 energy (about a 60% conversion at its best rate for zerker, and bludgeon's best rate which only costs 1 skill point of investment is 90%).



dfo99 -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/30/2013 5:46:48)

is a blocable skill and not give % of crit, end of topic



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Bludgeon Balance (9/30/2013 19:28:32)

@df099

Having a chance to fail doesn't quite balance the skill either.



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