Blood Lust (Full Version)

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Sensei Chan -> Blood Lust (10/1/2013 14:57:28)

I know that there is a change that will turn passives into actives but something needs to be done about this skill right now.
It is much to powerful considering it gives 1/4 (25%) HP of damage done and only requiring 34 technology
While Reroute requires 42 technology and only 30% Energy regain
HP is much more important than energy and when your fighting Blood Mages all day you really get sick of the amount of damage they do and how much HP they regain I have done evidence proving they can get over 50-100+ HP back in 1 single battle which might sound like nonsense but when you think about it how much do they get each turn? about 5-10 HP back each turn.



toopygoo -> RE: Blood Lust (10/1/2013 15:08:03)

reroute however provides a higher return rate than energy, and you can use reroute to heal

however, i do agree that this skll is still too empored. looking at current circumstabces, it did not need the buff at the beginning of delta from 23% and i would instead decrease it to 20% and keep the 34 tech cost, rather than raise it.


with a raised tech, people will have a higher smoke, so the retrun would be much the same as it currently is. i say lower the return cost, because its really enabling smoking builds, while enhancing all other greatly as well.

i would rank blood lust above a mercenaries hybrid armor, because the armor gives no great assistance with rage, rather decreasing the rate at which you gain it, while giving huge returns on rage with bloodlust.



Mother1 -> RE: Blood Lust (10/1/2013 16:34:06)

@ Sensei chan

The staff already said there wouldn't be any balance updates until the war was over, and not only that, when the war is over as you already mentioned passives will become actives.

Also the main reason they buffed bloodlust originally was because Blood mage needed a buff so they got it in the form of a 4% blood lust buff. However later on it was nerfed by 2%.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Blood Lust (10/1/2013 20:48:51)

quote:

reroute however provides a higher return rate than energy, and you can use reroute to heal


HP is immediate and thus more important, and the person with blood lust controls their HP gain, whereas the opponent controls the user's energy gain when using reroute. If I don't want someone to heal I can just bat at them with my 0 focus bot attacks for a rage to finish them off, and they'd only be 1-2 energy away from using field medic. Also field medic takes a turn to use whereas blood lust is instant.

I'm not saying blood lust is OP, I'm just saying reroute is underpowered because it's extremely easy to manipulate to one's advantage and a good player can render it almost useless.



toopygoo -> RE: Blood Lust (10/1/2013 21:33:37)

d.w. i completely agree with your point of view, i jsut wanted to mention those facts, before anyone else ;P

but in that sense, lets look at mercenaries skill: rage gain. this is utterly, completely useless, i find it hard to believe it actually has an effect on my character because i have bm's with my shared support raging TWICE before i do once. they can only steal one time a maximum of a quarter of my rage, so it should be that difficult, but for some reason, even with 20% rage gain increase, i might not rage until after they have done it two times.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Blood Lust (10/1/2013 23:25:54)

@toopygoo:

You are not raging as fast because you're too busy healing and using moves that don't grant rage such as static smash. Plus compared to your tankiness BMs really don't have that much base defense/resistance for you to gain rage from.

Adrenaline actually does has its uses, but I'd only suggest in investing 1 skill point in it unless you're using an uber-support build and want to rage on turn 3.



kosmo -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 8:51:11)

mother1
bloodlust was buffed for no reason, bm has been the op class since the day it got relised.
some things just need to be tested propely.

here is a list of the skills i think are broken:
bloodlust. OP
dadly aim. OP
emp granade. OP
static smash. OP
assimilate. (OP moove on a UP class)
shadows arts. UP
adrenaline. UP
bm supercharge. lol
other skills should be fixed/removed, but theese one are in my opinion the most broken, i would havely nerf the 1st 4 skills, and replace the last 3



lampur1 -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 9:00:22)

finally some1 says tm is UP :D
well blood lust is one of the most annoyingest things to caster XD



Mother1 -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 9:08:12)

@ Kosmo

Bloodlust was buffed when strength was nerfed, and support was buffed when the golden yeti tourney was going on. During that time Blood mage was underpowered and was in need a buff. Just because they are strong now due to other balance changes doesn't mean that when this buff happened they weren't underpowered.



kosmo -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 9:16:45)

tell me which are theese changes? i just remember a few nerfs and buffs to tm and merc, and those class has never been a problem for bm
masses are not tht smart as u think, they need to get kiked many times before they relise what to copy.



Rayman -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 9:35:30)

quote:

During that time Blood mage was underpowered and was in need a buff


During that time BM Was still Overpowered but not alot of people used it since they could get fastest kills with the OP Str Merc build or support Merc until they nerfed more the str and supp progression, During that time people really wanted fast wins to win the golden tournament.
What they should really do is Boost the block rate by +10% and reduce deflect chance by 8%, Or we can just wait the balance changes, but I'm tired of fighting BMs, Sometimes people that just really don't know how to play win by the reason they are just bms.



Mother1 -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 10:20:41)

@ Rayman

It is like the infernal war all over again except that there are now strength and focus BM's rather then just pure strength mages. The strength one's I don't mind too much because most of the time I can own them even with azreal gear and platinum pride gear. Focus BM is a little harder but I can still beat them.

But in all seriousness the staff did say no balance changes were coming until this war ends. So while all these suggestions for change are nice they are actually in a sense pointless since they won't be made until the war ends.




ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 14:29:48)

bm is op, end of. thats the only problem. dont even deny it trans...



Mother1 -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 14:38:37)

@ ED

Overused =/= Overpowered.

For bloodmage to be overpowered every build with the class has to be unbeatable without using the same build. Last I checked there are only 2 builds running around with Blood mage that are strong at high levels. Strength blood mage, and Focus blood mage Strength BM more than focus.

Also last I checked the strength build is OVERUSED due to the current state of balance, and the fact that none of these people want to look for other builds due to the fear of giving up something they know can get wins quickly rather than possibly find something better at the chance of losing.

Also whenever I see strength bloodmage I laugh when I see this build because 70-80% of the time I clobber them quite easily.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 14:47:00)

that means bh is weak. well its true. without a robot( even with one) or platinums pride we are a weak class. we hav no outside source of good damge. i would encourage making multy replaced with move a bit like plasma bolt but physical. and obviously a bit weaker because of bloodlust.



martinsen5 -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 15:01:04)

If they were to nerf Blood Lust, I think I'd change my class as I already feel very underpowered compared to other classes as it is. A Blood Mage raging their Bludgeon on me when I have a slightly weaker Blood Lust? Good grief, I'd die easier than I do already.



Bionic Bear -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 15:18:52)

At the time it came out, the beginning of delta, I'm pretty sure that BM wasn't op(str TLM with smoke and maul). BM is not op now, either. The simple fact is, as Trans would say, that the skills of BM synergize too well. And besides, the class name is blood mage. If it didn't have bloodlust, the name wouldn't make sense, at least not to me.



toopygoo -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 15:22:24)

@ E.P.

i do get tht i am not using twoo many offensive rage gaining moves, but that is only a maximum of three turns when i am not attacking... static, heal, and regenerator.

they gain rage twice, taking minimum 8 turns, and i havent raged yet! thats what kills me the most. usually i bunk 1-2 times, and use a bot/aux, which is a total of 60+60+45 damage minimum, plus damage taken.

the fact that after all this with a 18% rage gain increase, i still dont have rage makes it feel like it has no effect, and there is really no way to prove, or disprove that it works.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Blood Lust (10/2/2013 22:37:26)

quote:

mother1
bloodlust was buffed for no reason, bm has been the op class since the day it got relised.
some things just need to be tested propely.

here is a list of the skills i think are broken:
bloodlust. OP
dadly aim. OP
emp granade. OP
static smash. OP
assimilate. (OP moove on a UP class)
shadows arts. UP
adrenaline. UP
bm supercharge. lol
other skills should be fixed/removed, but theese one are in my opinion the most broken, i would havely nerf the 1st 4 skills, and replac


Some very intelligent person/people actually noticed it got buffed because of the severe damage nerf on pretty much all attacks in the first week, and bothered to enlighten everyone else. If they didn't tell me, I'm pretty sure I'd have your opinion as well on blood lust.

Static smash is definitely not OP as it doesn't work when the opponent doesn't have energy, doesn't give rage, and doesn't deal damage. Either it's not OP or it's in the same category as assimilation where it's on an underpowered class.

IMO shadow arts shouldn't even exist and should be replaced by a predictable passive, not one that turns every fight into a luckfest with smoke stacking.

quote:

bm is op, end of. thats the only problem. dont even deny it trans...


A single BM build is enough to call the entire class OP (when the build itself is not too difficult to counter), but a single merc build I made before tech was changed was very successful in terms of win rate and did not turn merc into an OP class, so that's public logic for you.

Strength BM is not too difficult to counter. They'll outheal you if you burn up all your energy quickly, so plan for the fight to be a little longer than others, and just try to stick with consistent damage throughout. Low-level smoke BHs with level 3+ EMP can actually do very well against strength BMs because of repeated smokes to supplement their blood lust and counter BM's bludgeon.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Blood Lust (10/3/2013 15:19:16)

quote:


A single BM build is enough to call the entire class OP (when the build itself is not too difficult to counter), but a single merc build I made before tech was changed was very successful in terms of win rate and did not turn merc into an OP class, so that's public logic for you.

Strength BM is not too difficult to counter. They'll outheal you if you burn up all your energy quickly, so plan for the fight to be a little longer than others, and just try to stick with consistent damage throughout. Low-level smoke BHs with level 3+ EMP can actually do very well against strength BMs because of repeated smokes to supplement their blood lust and counter BM's bludgeon.


if they get intimidated even with a focus build they will lose. this is cause they hav very limited and wastful ways of doing damage without str supp and robot. if 1 goes they lose.



Ranloth -> RE: Blood Lust (10/3/2013 16:56:45)

BMs aren't OP. You're saying Str BMs overpower the whole class and want everyone to get nerfed. Why not nerf your class because I hate facing you in-game and lose to you, so you deserve one? I don't even use Str BM build, my one is Focus 5 Plasma Cannon and many players can vouch for me on this one. :|

Deadly Aim isn't even OP. Neither is BloodLust. STOP mentioning synergy and want to nerf everyone for it. DA has been nerfed and I've personally wanted this nerf since Beta, and it's much better now. BloodLust is fine too. ONLY the synergy with Tech (for BHs) and Strength (for BMs) makes it "overpowered" but it really isn't. Synergy doesn't make the class overpowered. A build does not make the class overpowered.

Overpowered means when you cannot defeat a build AND no one else can either, unless they heavily rely on luck factors AND majority of players cannot win against them either. Example? Initial Support Mercs at the release of Omega. Change your build, then complain whether something is overpowered or you just can't beat it and want it nerfed. With my Plasma Cannon build, it's 50/50 against Str BMs. I'd advise you to use FrostBite/FrostShard/Assimilation if you can, so you can still deal damage and drain EP. Delaying or even stopping Bludgeon will help you greatly, and it has helped me when I was using it. If you refuse to use the available counters, that's your problem. This doesn't mean a class is overpowered. This means YOUR build needs altering or deal with the fact it's your weakness.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Blood Lust (10/3/2013 18:12:01)

quote:

Change your build


trans. no. you have said that a gazzilion times, and no it still doesnt help. it means that the class i use is bad. i remember merc being good against them. so im going merc.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Blood Lust (10/3/2013 23:43:39)

quote:

Change your build


To be honest, I can't believe you expect people to not change their build before complaining on the forums. Some people act like little kids here, but I'm pretty sure they'd have enough intelligence to at least try changing their build before ranting.

@ED: It depends on the person. I'm very good at merc against TMs (before static smash was added), BHs, and CHs but I found myself very weak to, strangely enough, the classes without debuffs. It really all depends on the player.



Ranloth -> RE: Blood Lust (10/4/2013 4:02:03)

Penguin, not really. I've seen many complaints saying "I can't beat this build, nerf it pls!" and often it was with one build. They don't bother changing just to be able to counter one, when they can beat all the other. And it wasn't stated whether he's tried changing or not - any info that's relevant should be included. Yes, this is the obvious, but this is balance we're talking about and many people just request nerfs without any information about their build, or why they even want it nerfed. :| If EDD was to say "I've tried all the builds possible with my class." then we could assume his class may be underperforming, rather than the other one being OP.



kosmo -> RE: Blood Lust (10/4/2013 18:40:55)

a GOOD str/focus bm cannot be beaten unless luck from 99% of the game, so yes it is unbalanced and it has alwaise been.




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