Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (Full Version)

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rejaylob -> Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 4:22:58)

Why not balance this and make this core to be usable once per battle just like all other bots special? This is getting too OP that you can use it more than once.

Or if devs dont want to balance poison spore then make all bots special usable more than once per battle :/

EDIT: My suggestions would be

1. Make the core usable once per battle
2. Make the duration 3 turns instead of 4. or;
3. Lessen the poison damage each time you use it in a battle. (like 8 poison damage in first use, then 7or6 damage in second use)

Thats about it



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 7:39:27)

depends on the situation. vs tanks it is the best bot, while in other situations its not. it is totally better than azrael borg tho. if they shield you can just poison. then you will get rage quicker because of their shield, while being able to get full advantage of your robot. while it is strong, it is in a promo therefore shouldnt be nerfed. and gamma bot can be more useful. infernal android can be more useful for burst damage. every bot has its own aspect of greatness.



Scyze -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 7:46:15)

The valid point most players bring up is that you can cleanse the poison effect by healing. It does seem alright because of this.
Other Robots' ability cannot be cleansed.



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 9:42:36)

@ED Divine Darkness
It doesnt mean that if its a promo item it must not be Nerfed. This bot could at least be nerfed like: In first use of bot deals 8 poison damage, then second use will be 7 or 6 poison damage per 4 turns. Or Maybe make the duration last to 3 turns instead of 4. The thing that made this OP is first: deals 8 damage in 4 turns all in all 32 damage, second: you can spam again and deal 32 damage after 4 turns again.


@Scyze

When your enemy uses Poison spore and usually deals around 7-8 damage per 4 turns, then you will heal around in 2-4 turns when your hp is kinda low and the poison spore will be cleansed. Now enemy spams poison spore back again since its only 3 turn cooldown. Now how do you cleans that back again? Thats too OP if you ask me.



Ranloth -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 10:00:46)

It's ineffective on higher HP. It can be cleansed. It deals 3 damage on the initial hit.

Can't cleanse it more than twice? Raise your HP. Don't wanna raise HP? Stay with Heal.

There is plenty of counters. It was already nerfed when Focus was altered, and it doesn't need nerfing. High HP builds are pretty much immune to the Poison - it deals too low DpT to be effective, unlike on a player with 80-90 HP.

Lastly... Is everyone using the Bot overpowered? Is the Bot not counterable? Do you struggle against people with the Bot? Does everyone struggle with the people using the Bot? Did you try different builds to counter the Poison?
High HP is the one counter that is always effective. Yes, you lose on defence and damage but what do you expect? You cannot be immune against everyone and everything - your build will have flaws. Low HP builds are very potent to DoT's, but high HP builds are pretty much immune due to how ineffective it is.

Overpowered means no one can beat the person using the Bot, unless they get very lucky or forced to use special combination to be remotely effective. Not being able to beat them =/= overpowered. No one can beat them = overpowred.



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 10:08:22)

@Trans

quote:

Overpowered means no one can beat the person using the Bot, unless they get very lucky or forced to use special combination to be remotely effective. Not being able to beat them =/= overpowered. No one can beat them = overpowred.


LOL Ive noticed in LB who are using this bot usally have 85% win ratio or even higher..

And besides, builds nowadays arent much on high HP. Players raise stats as this game became so luck-based. High HP? Yes they can counter poison builds. But you said it yourself that they have low defenses plus their attacks has higher chance to get blocked and lower chance to deflect and as I said earlier this game is so luck-based that you need more stats than HP.



Ranloth -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 10:13:00)

Leaderboards aren't a valid proof for imbalance. LBs consists of the fastest killing builds with either terrible ratio or great ratio (but slower battles). Furthermore, you can't possibly blame their ratio on the Bot alone. They could be using the Str BM build which is very effective and not really abuse Hazard's Poison.

Hm. So you refuse to counter the Bot when you do have an option to do so. Sorry, but that's not a claim for something to be overpowered but you simply refusing to adjust your build. Either go for higher HP (somewhere around 90-100 HP does work, I've tried it myself, or more) or deal with the Poison at lower HP.

Pick one: counter Poison but lower defences, or potent to Poison but better defences. Or go hybrid and have optimal HP to suit both.



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 10:44:08)

quote:

Leaderboards aren't a valid proof for imbalance. LBs consists of the fastest killing builds with either terrible ratio or great ratio (but slower battles). Furthermore, you can't possibly blame their ratio on the Bot alone. They could be using the Str BM build which is very effective and not really abuse Hazard's Poison.


I met them in 1v1 and notice in LB as their ratio was so high. They are mostly BH, BM, TLM with 5 foc builds

What matters most is that the public arent much fond of using high HP builds (again as I mention this game is now luck-based) And I can choose to counter it. The problem is now your build is only high HP just for countering Bot builds? Yeah right. Again the public arent much fond of high HP except glass cannon mages. I am not complaining this as for my build can actually counter Bot poison spore. I am complaining on the public's concern which most builds are not that High HP.



Ranloth -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 10:53:11)

Only because they aren't fond of high HP builds, it doesn't mean it ain't a viable counter. This is a matter of opinion, not a fact. And no, high HP build isn't only a counter to Poison. In shorter battles - where luck has bigger impact - defences end up being inferior to HP. In longer battles, including Bosses, high defences will come out to be superior to HP.

The public, huh? That public refuses to use higher HP to counter the Bot and claims it's overpowered instead - because they don't want to change builds. That's not overpowered, but it's a biased request to get something nerfed when it doesn't need to be. There are plenty of counters, and it's the players who refuse to take advantage of them. Is that balance's problem? No. It's players' choice.



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 10:59:39)

Players need to have balance battle for themselves. This is why ED is dieing and stays a little alive when a new update comes. Many unbalance happening. And the thing here is that some people thinks its already balanced or refuse to balance them because its either "They are using these Unbalanced builds" or "They are using or they have those Unbalanced Weapons" that are very effective in their battles.



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 11:29:30)

@ Rejaylob

They made it useable more than once for the so purpose that poison can now be cleansed by field medic. Making it one time use would be nerfing it into the ground. Especially in 2 vs 2 since it can be cleansed out without the DOT even being used if the situation is right.

Also all bots don't have a one time use special. The assault bot, Bio borg, Gamma bot, and Azreals borg all have specials that are usable more than once.


As for the poison itself it isn't fixed at 8. If works with 60% of your opponents robot damage, so If they are getting 8 they are a high tech focus 5 build. (which is what I am guessing you are dealing with)

As trans said there are plenty of counters to this bot.

1 Have high HP
2 Cleanse it out with field medic
3 Use Malfuction (if you are a tech mage or cyber hunter) as a strong malf can take it down 1-2 dot
4 Use omega override (if they have tech as the highest base stat)
5 cleanse out the poison early.

Now as for your last post, Trying to force players to play the way you think they should play is what caused the last couple of nerfs. If you try and force people to use builds they don't want to use, they are going to complain. You are going to have to accept the fact that people are going use what they want to use, and if that so happens to be a build that your build is weak against then you are going to have to change your build to accept to it. There are counters available to just about everything in the game, and if you don't want to use those counters and expect the staff to make the changes for you then the problem isn't balance but yourself.



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 11:39:52)

@Mother1:
quote:

There are counters available to just about everything in the game, and if you don't want to use those counters and expect the staff to make the changes for you then the problem isn't balance but yourself.



quote:

I am not complaining this as for my build can actually counter Bot poison spore. I am complaining on the public's concern which most builds are not that High HP.


Thats what I said. The problem is not for myself. "I can counter" builds with poison spore. Its just that most of my friends want to quit because all of these unbalanced things arent so right. The disappointing part is they arent solving it but only after the War. Its like they are waiting for ED to die and thats when they take actions.



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 11:47:38)

@ Rejaylob

Then that is your friends problems not the games. The game can't be made to make everyone happy sadly. The robot would truly be unbalanced and overpowered if it couldn't be countered which as you admitted that you could counter.

The game is about countering your opponents so you can win. If there aren't any counter in the game yet I could understand, but that isn't the case. If they don't want to tweek their builds so they can have a counter within it, then as I said before that is their problem.

People are going to use what they knew get results, and many would rather used overused builds that get results rather than be creative at the expense of losing. That is how the game has always been. Only difference is now we have less things to use because along the way due to complaints coming from your people all our tools have been weakened due to those complaints.

But the truth of the matter is nerfing the most popular thing or what is in right now isn't balance at all. All this does is make something else that was kept in check by said build get an indirect buff causing it to take that build's place. Once the masses find this build or builds then the same thing starts all over again.



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 12:11:11)

@Mother1
quote:

Then that is your friends problems not the games. The game can't be made to make everyone happy sadly.


I lol'd at this."The game cant be made to make everyone happy? " so your saying the devs of ED are just doing the games worse and they purposely mean to make players quit? I'd say that is pathetic.

quote:

Only difference is now we have less things to use because along the way due to complaints coming from your people all our tools have been weakened due to those complaints.


This is why there is a thread of Suggestions for balance. You say we have less things to use? Yeah sure, to tell you we have a lot of things to use. This is only because abusive people uses the most powerful one and complain to make it balance.



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 12:26:39)

quote:

I lol'd at this."The game cant be made to make everyone happy? " so your saying the devs of ED are just doing the games worse and they purposely mean to make players quit? I'd say that is pathetic.


I lol'd at this comment.

I am not saying that. I am saying that everyone doesn't think the same. Seriously we are all different and while we all may want one major thing from this game (Fun) everyone has different ways to have it. What some people might want others don't. You may fix something that some people might want fixed but at the same time make another group unhappy because they either saw nothing wrong with it or liked it.

The omega update is a good example.

When this update came it made non varium players happy since they got a major buff while it made a lot of varium players unhappy due to them being nerfed as well as many of them thinking their investment in the game went down the drain for those who didn't pay a cent. As a result a lot of them left. Which comes back to my point of not being able to please everyone with changes to the game.

We don't think the same and if we did then balance would be a lot easier since we would all want the same thing which isn't the case.



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 12:34:52)

Yeah and omega made many players quit. And I can see your having an attitude with this reply:
quote:

I lol'd at this comment.
Again... LOL [&:][&:]

quote:

We don't think the same and if we did then balance would be a lot easier since we would all want the same thing which isn't the case.


Dont balance it then if thats your opinion. I respect it and respect mine.



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 12:54:25)

@ Rejaylob

You missed the point of my original post. what I was saying was that while everyone may want one thing, everyone what it in a different way. Meaning we all want balance and fun yes, but the way that we may want this to happen isn't going to be the same.

Why do you think we have conflicting posts in the forums? This right here is proof that we all don't think the same. With the topic matter you even admitted that you can counter this but, but your friends couldn't and they quit because of this.

If there are people who can counter something and they aren't using the same build but different ones that is proof right there that this bot isn't overpowered.

When you play and see something you can't beat you are suppose to find a counter to said build which is what the game is about. We are not suppose to have the staff nerf everything we can't counter unless their isn't actually a counter to said thing. having the staff nerf everything we can't counter when there is an available counter or counters to it destroy's balance more than helps it.

As for me having a problem with your comment I didn't take offense to your comment. I just LOL'ed at your comment because you were suggesting that the staff would purposely make their game fail. The thought of that when they put their time, effort, blood sweat, and tears into a game just for it to fail actually made me chuckle.

The reason why they haven't done any balance updates yet was because when they did them during the golden yeti tourney it completely destroyed it. The first week everyone was using support builds abusing the crap out of it because they super charged support while nerfing strength. The second week of the tourney people still used this but not as much. They didn't want to repeat the same mistake they made during this.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 20:31:58)

To all who give these build counters, I feel all players shouldn't have to claim the enter structure of a build in order to stand chance against a single item. I feel that makes this item OP.
The only solution I see to this bot is a one time use, un-curable poison.



Ranloth -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 20:40:30)

Gearz, at the same time, one build shouldn't be able to counter everything. If it can counter everything (unbeatable), then it shows the build is too strong. In other words, each build is supposed to have a weakness. These are the words of Devs who have stated it a long time ago.

Besides, higher HP builds are a counter to likes of Rage and Crits - if low defences - and Poison, at least in shorter battles. In long battles, defences are superior to HP. So if you plan on tanking, low HP build will be better. And vice versa.



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 22:06:42)

@GearzHeadz
quote:

The only solution I see to this bot is a one time use, un-curable poison.


Thats a great suggestion if you ask me. [8D]



Midnightsoul -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 22:44:37)

I really miss how the old balance threads were like...
They weren't extremely biased and 100% emotion based...and I kinda feel sorry that old players like Trans and Mother have to put up with like above this post.

@OP
It's a promo. Make your own build to defeat it or NPC. The balance changes will come after the war.




Dual Thrusters -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 22:57:44)

quote:

I feel all players shouldn't have to claim the enter structure of a build in order to stand chance against a single item. I feel that makes this item OP.


In that case Massacre is OP since the only counter is an energy drainer.



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 23:00:56)

quote:

and I kinda feel sorry that old players like Trans and Mother have to put up with like above this post.


It irritates me that they act like they are one of the devs or something [&:]



Mother1 -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 23:26:02)

@ Rejaylob

You said it yourself that you could counter this bot, however you wanted it changed because your friends thought it was overpowered and couldn't counter it so they want to quit. I have to ask if you can counter the bot why not just share your counters with your friends so they can counter it as well?



rejaylob -> RE: Botanical Hazard Poison Spore (10/20/2013 23:33:25)

@Mother1

The problem is they are in a different class and some of them arent paying for varium. Which is hard for me to give them a build that best suits them not only to counter just for poison spore but to win more battles as well.



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