RE: Matching 2v2 (Full Version)

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Altador987 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/18/2013 11:37:54)

if that was the case then in a 2on2 a person could play as a buffer while the other does the all the damage and once his partner is gone he'd be invincible for a decent amount of turns while being able to attack both partners or even focus on crushing a partner quickly with 2 turns under his belt



Stabilis -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/18/2013 12:33:48)

quote:

if that was the case then in a 2on2 a person could play as a buffer while the other does the all the damage and once his partner is gone


I think you have the wrong idea here. For each of the solo player's turns, the buff would decrease by 1 turn. The player does not get a buff that lasts twice as long. It counts as a whole turn every time it is the solo player's turn. Field Medic would come back in twice the number of turns, and so would their attacks. All this does is provide some leverage to players who find themselves handicapped early on or later.



Altador987 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/18/2013 12:37:33)

aaah i see but then wouldn't that be a huge disadvantage even more so for that one player, i mean cause then that'd be an 8 turn cooldown if i'm understanding correctly... sorry i'm tryin to wrap my brain around the idea

Edit: nvm i think i get what you're sayin now

Posts merge. Please don't double post. ~Mecha



Stabilis -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/18/2013 12:57:33)

quote:

aaah i see but then wouldn't that be a huge disadvantage even more so for that one player, i mean cause then that'd be an 8 turn cooldown if i'm understanding correctly... sorry i'm tryin to wrap my brain around the idea


I will simulate the turns again:

A & B
VS
C & D

A (Field Medic on B)

C (KO's B)

A (attacks C / Field Medic cooling down [4 turns])

D (attacks)

A (attacks C / Field Medic cooling down [4 turns])

^

Notice how Field Medic's cooldown time stays at 4 turns? Cooldowns and warmups will only change when a full turn has passed. That means C and D need to go through their turn before Field Medic's cooldown becomes 3.

C (attacks)

A (Double Strike on C / Field Medic cooling down [3 turns])

D (Field Medic on C)

A (attacks C / Field Medic cooling down [3 turns] / Double Strike cooling down [1 turn])

C (Field Medic on C)

A (attacks C / Field Medic cooling down [2 turns] / Double Strike cooling down [1 turn])

D (attacks A)

A (Double Strike on C / Field Medic cooling down [2 turns] / Double Strike ready)

etc...

A gets B's turn, but A is still treated like a normal 2V2 player who still has a partner. If C or D is KO'd, then 1V1 conditions will apply.



kaierti1 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 5:53:23)

15 loses and 7 wins on 2 v 2. 2 v 2 is totaly bullsht. i cant do even mission. terrible. so many unfair games, i have always 30 or 31 partner. and often my partner running away. need change something enough!!! wake up ed admins. what are u doing? we are tired and bored. make 2 v 2 only lvls: 33, 34, 35 and 36



DarkDevil -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 6:11:26)

the gap can be as big as 6 lvls , this was since the beta and its NOT going to change , stop complaining that you were at a disadvantage and its repeat is an act of luck , you just got bad luck that's all.



kaierti1 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 7:05:26)

DarkDevil,
lol man. this game depends on lucks u first read it? lucks u make win: crit, deflect, block, stun and etc. it is all lucks



DarkDevil -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 7:08:05)

yes , without luck acts it will just be scripted boring scenarios , ever thought about that ?



Ranloth -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 7:11:06)

Because it'd be impossible to run a game without having probability involved. You either make everything 0% or 100% to eliminate luck completely, but that way, everything would be pre-set. Not mentioning starting first would still be "luck", as you call it.

Instead of saying it "depends on luck", perhaps you should've said it "revolves around probabilities", which is honestly normal. You can't really say it's luck-ridden because you have control over these effects through cores and stats - as opposed to having fixed %'s, such as the Stun cores which have 3%/5% chance to occur and don't improve nor can be weakened by any stat.



kaierti1 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 7:17:01)

Trans,
u forget stun maybe 30% merc club or grenade. crit maybe cannon and bunker 25%. u can call everything luck, even when i have low level partner (it is maybe luck of my enemy) so don't repeat that i'm unlucky. but i have almost always low level partner. i won only 32% of 22 games. 2 v 2 is really bad now need change something in juggs too. just we want normally and stability game.



DarkDevil -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 7:22:37)

in case of getting low partner its personal luck since the server just pick the first one in the level range to join to be your partner and teams are also picked randomly , so its 100% luck , not probabilitys.

you were just unlucky getting low teamates doesn't mean they should adjust the game to eliminate luck even from teams.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 10:39:44)

Crits deflects blocks fine

messed uo level pairings not fine . Rationalising a broken system with the term luck is a little silly in my eyes . the advanatage 4-6 levels gives u is hard to come back from .

And makes me feel anyone saying "deal with it it happens repeatedly its just luck" are just scared of fair fights because they know they wodnt win.



Mother1 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 10:45:45)

@ Noobatron

Crits deflections and blocks aren't fine.

Crits were nerfed by 1/3 along with offense making blocks and deflections hurt even worse.

Also if you hadn't noticed thank to the staff nerfing offense once again while buffing defenses for their "stredegy increasing game" matches now move slower. What does this means? It means thanks to this move wait times for matches have increased.

I have noticed this from last week that it takes longer for me to find 2 vs 2 matches now than ever because of this.

So me it isn't that I am afraid of getting losing from a fair fight, it is that I won't get a match at all or it will take me forever to get one.




Stabilis -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 11:02:11)

quote:

Crits were nerfed by 1/3 along with offense making blocks and deflections hurt even worse.


I am not pro-"lucky events" either, but how does this nerf to critical strikes change blocks or deflections?



Mother1 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 11:05:18)

@ Depressed

It doesn't however the nerf to strength and support (Offense as I called it) made these events worse.

Since strength does less damage then before blocks and deflections hurt even worse now due to the decrease in damage. It was an indirect buff to these factors.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 11:07:44)

I meant ccrits blocks deflects fall under acceptable luck factors within reason. Matchmaking does not and trying to justify that getting a messed up fight 5/6 times is just luck is a flawed argument.

With regards to the longer fights this is a good thing it has pretty much killed the quick kill no skill required builds and introduced a little less predictability into the game. I have always preffered defence vs offence

until recently offence was far far superior to defence for months didn't see you complaining then :P



Stabilis -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 11:12:03)

I would argue that due to the decrease in Strength and Support (namely weapon damage), that each point of Resistance or Defense from Dexterity and Technology is more... potent. Blocks and deflections would actually absorb less damage, so the 1 thing that advantages from this update in terms of damage in stats would be the defensive stats.



Mother1 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 11:22:29)

@Noobatron

You have no control over who you will get in battle so in all honest as they said that is luck. Until they make ally links for 2 vs 2 (which was already rejected due to abuse) you have no control over who you will get. Heck even if they removed the level range so you would get 100% equal level fights do you still have control over who you will get? No you wouldn't.

Matches no matter what will never be fair. Why cause if it isn't level advantage it is build advantage something which I said can make up for level disadvantage. Put 4 36's together in a fight and one side has a build advantage over the other. Right there the other side is at a disadvantage. So no matter how you look at it someone is disadvantaged.

Also I am upset because this update increased wait times where as before this one wait times weren't as bad.

2 vs 2 takes 1-2 minutes sometimes due to this change. Not a good move on their part with such a small population.



axell5 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 11:25:16)

@mother1 how do you win/lose a match in 1-2 minutes? i win a match in 1v1 for 1-2mins



Mother1 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 11:27:24)

@ axell5

I was saying that I have to wait that long sometimes now for a fight in 2 vs 2 not that I win/lose a match within that time sorry if I wasn't clear.



Altador987 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 11:42:22)

@mother1 do you think that maybe build unfairness has to do with it equally maybe, i mean a lot of 2v2s i see tend to be 2 of the same class on the same side against two different classes which can be both advantageous and disadvantageous depending on the class, i'm not even sure a solution could come out of that fact and 2v2 has always been a little harder to find but i agree that even in power hour 2v2s can take a lot longer to join than i wouldve expected



Mother1 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 11:57:04)

@ altador987

It isn't just that as well.

many factors add up in 2 vs 2 that can cause one side to win or lose.

Levels
builds
luck factors
how well you work with your partner (both build wise and cooperation wise)
Disconnecters and Runners (yes while this shouldn't happen this really affects a battle if it does happen)

Lets say we have a 2 level 36 vesus a level 36 and a 33.

Level wise the two 36's are up.

However lets say one of the 36's on the higher level team has high dex but low tech, and the other 36 and 33 have builds that can exploit that weakness. (EXP the 36 has malfuction, and the 33 had a strong plasma cannon, or any other forms of energy attacks) that right there is the build advantage I mentioned which is on the lower levels side. While it doesn't always work like this it does happen which is one of the many reasons why the higher level team doesn't always win. Plus this is just one of many scenario's that can come up in 2 vs 2.




Altador987 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/19/2013 12:03:50)

yea i getchu 2v2 is generally harder to pick out because while lvl differences are usually unfair they did try to make up for it by rewarding more credits and even gave the one kill consolidation which i think are really neat, and honestly at certain lvls i like being the underdog due to the possibility of what you stated as well as the reward... meh



Elite Tuga -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/21/2013 18:04:06)

Like I mentioned on another Post, battles will never be 50/50 like Mother1 mentioned before, because there are other factors too that are unavoidable, but personally I think if the Developers done a 0 gap in level differences it would be 1 step closer to fair play no matter what.

Examples of other unfair factors; Bad partner builds, Partners with few gears, Support builds 1st turn advantage, Partners not following tactics as a team should in-order to win, Lagger's who skip turns, players using alt's to their advantage. (Some factors are inevitable but its life.. Nothings perfect).

My point is we should get this system change soon even if we still don't bring 2v2 battles 50/50, because right now its far from it & that's why I wish the match level-ing system was changed, so it would be 1 less factor to worry about, therefore less frustration.

We need to stick together on some opinions like this one, otherwise Dev's will never bother to fix something that players from the community never all agree upon by making it controversial with debates!

Font size removed. See PM. ~Mecha



Altador987 -> RE: Matching 2v2 (11/21/2013 19:39:31)

you don't need to come to a conclusion on this the fact that everyone is involved will make them aware that the subject is of interest reaching a conclusion doesn't mean that we're going to get what we want because we're not the ones in charge



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