Potential buff to CH (Full Version)

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ur going to fail -> Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 17:42:34)

CH is a UP in all seriousness. Couldn't beat a caster TM to save its life. BH and classes like BM and merc are fine to battle against, but caster TM are very heavy set tanks, and battery backup gives them a endless heal loop. Once a CH is out of energy, the game is over because the little energy we get from static charge is taken away by assimilation.

Ideas to buff CH would be to buff massacre. It has been far to weak for far to long. a level 5 massacre costs 45 energy and gives a +77% boost, while a max berzerker costs 45 energy and gives a +80% boost. A level one berzerker does more dmg than a level 1 massacre. Berzerker puts massacre to shame, and bludgeon is stronger than both of them LOL..

Second would be to buff SA. Increase the scaling to 15% at level 1 and 35% at level 10. Increase by 2 at each level. I think its energy cost should be similar to that of reflex boost.

Third would be to remove the str requirement on malf, give support builds a chance.

Lastly, I'd say make plasma grenade on par with stun grenade. It should cost 13 energy like stun grenade, at level one, not 16. Its damage compared to multi is quite weak, maybe buff it. Or altogether make static grenade improve with dex..

I'm not saying all these buffs are necessary, but something has to be done. Recently we greatly nerf'd one class, while greatly buffing another, and this said class has been dominating the boards.. So if we plan on nerfing any class, whether its TM or BH, don't overshoot the buff. Maybe nerf one this week, and the next buff the other. Learn from our mistakes.

Some BH right now are getting 91% and IF NPCs still counted towards our win records, I would say focus BH right now would be getting around 97%..

Edit: Another buff to CH could be making SC work like it did when it first came out, keep it unblockable, but give it a 4 turn cooldown and a maybe 60% or 70% conversion at level 10. Would give about 25 energy back per hit, a free strike as well. Maybe let people use it with rage though, no crit though.




Altador987 -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 17:50:34)

honestly i wish the cooldown for static charge would be returned to it's original 2 that way we could still get mp a right now we gain it for others to steal



GearzHeadz -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 17:50:58)

I think you meant plasma grenade instead of static grenade. And yes I agree that it should be on par with stun grenade. It can't improve with dex, because that's what stun grenade does. It'd be to similar. The massacre I agree with as well. I think that their static move should only be 2 turns, not 3.



Mother1 -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 17:55:40)

The reason they put static charge at 3 turns instead of 2 is because all other energy drains and gainers have a 3 turn cooldown (Battery backup is the exception)

Plus static charge even though it can't crit or be raged is still 100% grantee since it is now a free unblockable hit.




GearzHeadz -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 17:58:13)

It is? Didn't know that. In that case it should keep its % but be made blockable, but given a 2 turn cooldown.



Altador987 -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 18:01:56)

yea but even with a malf and decent strength i can get 19 mp which a merc with 23 tr can take away with a lvl 3 static smash so while i'm not trying to make it so cy's get unlimited amounts of mp, they'd be able to get more faster so all of that wouldnt go to waste once it's static smashed or assimilated or emped instantly... not that there's much to do anyway with the energy to attack with (i have to have great strength for a massacre or static charge, good dex for a multi, good support for a malf and a shield, good tech for emp and the res shield which costs quite a chunk of mp to use) in order to be a decent cy you literally have to forsake a stat or you flat out wont win even against a lower level



Mother1 -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 18:04:43)

The major problem with static now is that unlike all the other energy drainer/gainers is that it works with strength which took a nerf last update which IMO was very counterproductive for static.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 18:05:14)

@Mother1, assimilation works with str, so does static smash.



Mother1 -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 18:19:44)

@ gearheadz

There is a big difference between the three.

Assimilation for one doesn't drain base of percents. The numbers depending on your strength are fixed meaning unless someone lowers your base strength you will always drain the same amount whether you connect the strike or it is blocked.

Static smash which it works with percents like Static charge ignores defenses with the actual drain. Even when blocked the 15% that remains still ignores those defenses.

Static charge however not only works with percents, but it has to go through enemy defenses with actual strength. So unlike the other two the weapon damage actually counts here unlike with assimilation, and defenses matter unlike with static smash.

That is why it hurts cyber hunter so much where as Tech mage and Mercenary aren't.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 18:22:47)

Which is why I say it should have a shorter cooldown to compensate for having to pierce the targets protection.



Mother1 -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 18:25:46)

Or they could do something that I was against for the longest which is lower the percent to 50% at the max but put it back to raw damage. This would mean that defenses would be ignored once again with the energy drain, but at the same time since everyone is on just about equal ground (now having ways to get and drain energy) it won't get out of hand.



ur going to fail -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 22:58:59)

Mother1 has a good point, the old SC was OP, but now, it really wouldn't be.. Just look around. SC going back to its orginal form, 3 turn cooldown, and still unblockable (plus the no rage or crit side-effect) would be a good way to balance CH. Still doesn't do much for focus CH though (mostly benefits str CH or str/sup CH) because focus CH like to conserve their energy and focus on heal looping, EMP, and shields; rather than investing in malf because, in all honesty, it is quite weak without sup abuse.

A focus CH would much rather stack up on str than sup for a stronger a SC, and generally more damage in the long term (it is indeed a build for long battles..) and thus malf tends to be weak, and not worth it's price.

Another buff to CH could be malf getting a lower energy cost (and str requirement removal), or for it to improve with dex or tech. This would help out TMs as well because even they seem to be struggling.



Altador987 -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/17/2013 23:16:10)

SC never had a 3 turn cool down until this particular update and focus CHs could use malf pretty well they just wouldn't take like 40 but i can't see a problem with that idea



kaiseryeux21 -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 7:29:08)

as a CH, i too is having a very difficult time beating caster TM simply because of their ability to spam technology which is what CH are made of. I dont see any problem regarding the recent update on Static Charge, in my opinion it's doing great so far. I guess the solution is for CH to have a reliable and decent Physical Attack. If we can observe, CH doesnt really have a physical attack on their skill tree unless ofcourse you are using a physical claw which can do damage physically using bludgeon. But how many CH are using physical claw?? not so many in my opinion. Do we have to use physical primary just to have a slight chance of beating casters?? How about if we encounter other class or other builds?? Having a physical skill which can replace either stun grenade is very much appreciated.



Ranloth -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 7:50:08)

Give Static Charge another effect, 66% defense ignore (2/3) for Energy return only. So you get guaranteed damage (albeit, no crits nor rage), and Energy return depends on your damage and their defences.

V1
Let's say 35 Res for the opponent, 10-12 +34 damage (45 Str), and max Static Charge (70%):
35 * 0.66 = 23.1 (24), leftover 11
10-12 + 34 = 44-46
44-46 * 0.7 = 30.8-32.2 (31-33)
31-33 - 11 = 20-22 Energy

V2
Let's say 35 Res for the opponent, 10-12 +34 damage (45 Str), and max Static Charge (70%):
35 * 0.5 = 17.5 (18), leftover 17
10-12 + 34 = 44-46
44-46 * 0.7 = 30.8-32.2 (31-33)
31-33 - 17 = 14-16 Energy

It's weaker than other Energy return skills, but these don't rely on Strength as much nor deal great deal of damage, if any, and don't have unblockable damage. Of course, the above assumes a tank build vs. typical Focus 5 at Lvl 36. Static Charge was always a skill that's dependant on Strength, so yeah.
The numbers don't seem that high, on a tank build, but it's to be expected. And, as already mentioned, it would deal low damage on tanks but give more Energy back so it's quite neat. Not mentioning it'd be stronger as you train your Strength or/and they have lower defences. Furthermore, my example assumes maxed Static Charge as well - and not everyone will max it out.



DarkDevil -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 8:07:15)

20-22 seems too much cus 10-12 damage is like the least and you are against a tank , you should think about another case where 16-19 +34 damage and 28 defence , the result can be as high as 35 energy gain , knowing that you also dealt damage thus this seems too much , reconsider the numbers again you could reach a smaller difference between high damage and low damage related to high armor and low armor in order to elliminate the odds.



Ranloth -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 8:27:58)

Edited the post. I've thought 50% ignore would've been better at first, but wasn't sure afterwards. Check again.



DarkDevil -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 8:40:58)

it seems more balanced with a range of 12-28 with the change of damage and defence in normal bounds , its only up to mods to decide if that will keep it balanced or not and wether that matches the class purpose.

edit : what about making a slope of both to make it always usable and scale correctly , the first one is more balanced for high defence and low damage while the second one is better for high damage and low defence, there could be some slope to fuse both.



Ranloth -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 8:58:03)

Well, the main aim of Static Charge is to give you Energy. Second is damage, but without any buffs to damage.

With the V2, it'd provide low damage - as you do now - and good return of Energy, despite the high defenses. Would get more effective as you train Strength or defense gets lower, or even both. Remember that I use merely 45 Strength to illustrate the idea.
If we use V2 and say... 25 Res (or Def), which is often glass cannons/high HP builds:

25 * 0.5 = 12.5 (13), leftover 12
10-12 + 34 = 44-46
44-46 * 0.7 = 30.8-32.2 (31-33)
31-33 - 12 = 19-21 Energy

Ain't too shabby and it's actually quite decent, not mentioning you get guaranteed damage with it. If we look at returns of skills such as Static Smash or Static Grenade, it is very close to it + it deals damage on top of it. Furthermore, it's not dependant on your opponent's Energy - unlike some other skills, which means it's always useful.



DarkDevil -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 9:08:01)

tested it on more numbers ... it turned very promising, i guess it's just mod's call on wether it is its purpose and if it will be done.



Ranloth -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 9:15:48)

It is better than buffing the %'s, and isn't heavily dependant on Malf which was needed before to maximise the Energy return. Of course, this would be the case now but not to such an extent - therefore, it's not dependant on a stat and a specific skill to get high Energy return, but only a stat to maximise it.

Furthermore, PA and SA cost Energy now and they aren't cheap. Even BMs have the Parasite skill which could be quite efficient if timed properly, and give as much Energy as decent Static Grenade or Static Smash (around 20'ish). With Static Charge being roughly on par, it wouldn't hurt nor overpower them. It hasn't overpowered CHs back when PA didn't exist (they've had Technician) but overpowered after passive PA was introduced. I don't see how it'd overpower them now, especially after offense nerfs at the beginning of Omega.



beaststyles -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 10:47:25)

@ trans

Not a bad idea. Although would like if the defence ignored wasn't only for energy but dame too :D



ur going to fail -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 18:40:03)

@trans, your way is nice, but I think newer players, especially the younger ones will have a hard time. I remember way far back in early beta, when I first joined (I think I was 13) the game was very complicated for me, and that was only with 3 classes.. Took me sereval scraped accounts to actually understand it, I know for sure you all know what I'm talking about. But anyway, moral of the story: Keep it simple, CH loses to much.

If your idea went through, think about what the description of the skill would be..

To many different affects in one skill.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 19:49:48)

quote:

CH loses to much.


Let me ask question, what build are you using?



I Underlord I -> RE: Potential buff to CH (11/18/2013 21:06:07)

I don't see how the current Static Charge is nothing short of a wonderful skill for Cyber Hunters. Which builds are being used to make it ineffective or not sufficient?



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