Small tweaks (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> Small tweaks (11/24/2013 10:45:28)

Here, I'll post all the suggestions I have in regards to improving some classes - not necessarily power wise, but variety too. It will be split into two sections, long-term changes (don't need immediate change, such as new skills) and short-term changes (altering existing skills asap).


Long-term changes:

  • [BM/Merc] Re-work Intimidate to reduce all incoming damage from weapons by a fixed %'s.
    • Weaker than pure reduction of Strength, which affect Primary and Guns, to compensate for weakening Auxes.
    • More powerful on builds that abuse Strength and/or Support but would have a cap for damage reduction, to prevent abuse.

  • [CH] Replace Malfunction with a new debuff, which increases any incoming damage source whilst your opponent is debuffed. Doesn't improve with anything.
    • Works under the same mechanics as Mark of Blood, so your ally (2v2) can also take advantage of it.
    • Damage boost is applied after defenses.
    • Similar in power to TLM's alternative debuff (credits to Remorse) - since TLM's debuff is applied to total damage, whilst this one is after defenses (lesser boost).
    • Gives the class nice synergy with skills, and allows any build to take advantage of it.
    • Tech requirement to prevent abuse from offensive builds.

  • [TLM] Replace Field Commander with a new debuff, which works in almost the same way as Omega Override (core).
    • Debuffs opponent's highest stat including stat boost from your weapons, excluding debuffs applied.
    • Improves with Dex to provide better synergy for Dex builds (blockable skills + Stun Grenade only)
    • Weaker than Smoke/Malfunction to compensate for 4-in-1 debuff; maybe -4 less base in comparison to Smoke/Malfunction, which is roughly 1 damage/defense point difference.
    • Alternatively, a unique defensive debuff suggested by Remorse - more details in post #45 and #47.

  • [TLM] Re-work Blood Shield to fit Omega HP scaling and to be more efficient, compared to Shields and Armors.
    • Perhaps 1 HP : 1.5 Res ratio, so for +5 HP spent on Blood Shield (Level 1), you'd get +7.5 (8) Res in return.
    • Fits with weaker debuffs and slower HP scaling in Omega, and is on par with Shields and Armors which last a turn or two less but give a bit more Resistance instead.

  • [TM] Swap and replace Bludgeon with Fire Scythe, and in place of Fire Scythe (Tier 4), introduce a new defensive skill "<name here>" which reduces incoming damage by x%
    • Starts at 5%, goes up by 2% and then by 1%, for up to 15% at Level 10 - and returns 1% of incoming damage (rounded up) per level - starts at 1% and caps at 10% - as HP. Energy cost similar to Shadow Arts. Lasts for 3 turns.
    • TMs have horrid defensive synergy, although, they are good on the offense but only Casters can excel in defense, not other builds.
    • HP return would be raw damage, before any defenses are calculated - so if total damage dealt is 60, you return % of it as HP.
    • Fire Scythe is a good substitute for Bludgeon already + more effective on tanks, and not mentioning it's unblockable + undeflectable.
    • Support requirement, to prevent abuse from Casters that could loop it efficiently.




    Short-term changes:

  • [BM] Tweak Energy Parasite to be more effective, not necessarily effect-wise. Just lower the damage penalty it has, since it's dependant on opponent's current Energy and takes 3 turns for full effect.


  • [CH] Buff Static Charge, to ignore 50% defenses for the Energy return only.
    • Makes it more efficient for Str-less builds and on tanks, whilst still dealing damage.

  • [CH] Buff Plasma Grenade, by bringing it on par with Stun Grenade.
    • +10 more damage and -30 Energy cost, and small adjustment to how it scales, in order to make it on par with Stun Grenade.
    • A nice buff that could improve their synergy a little bit.

  • [CH/BH] Reduce Energy cost of Shadow Arts, from +20 per level to +10 per level, for up to 200 Energy cost at Level 10.
    • It also has Support requirement which wouldn't make it a cheap but effective skill.

  • [TLM/CH/Merc] Reduce Energy cost of Armors by -20 or -30 Energy, to fit costs of Shields, which have similar power level.
  • [TLM/Merc] Compilation of suggestions, located here. Linked for an easier explanation.

  • [TM] Remove Staff requirement from Assimilation.
    • Tech Casters need Staves for Plasma Bolt and Super Charge. Dex Casters need Staves for Overload, but not Plasma Rain. Str/Supp rely on debuffs and damage from weapons, therefore Caster skills are useless.
    • Removal of requirement means loss of power, perhaps by around 10% (i.e. from -100 EP drain to -90 EP drain).
    • Deals with Casters abusing the move, yet makes it available for everyone.
    • Would work with Static Smash change perfectly.

  • [Core] Alter Generator, to be a slight counter against Poison - reduces duration of Poison effects by -1 turn.
    • Gives it a nice boost and a small counter against it.

  • [All] Take out the Maul requirement (Club) and Overload (Staff), so each class will have access to Stun skill without being forced to a specific weapon type. Not necessary, read post #40
    • Gives a bit more freedom for TMs and - especially - BMs, and Mercenaries would also have an incentive to use Swords - instead of Clubs.

  • [BH] Alter Static Grenade, by lowering its drain but buffing return to 75%.
    • It's meant to be an effective source of Energy, but not too strong either.
    • Furthermore, remove synergy with Tech, perhaps by making it improve with Support or fixed values (scales with level).

  • [BM] Buff Fireball by putting it on the same scaling as Plasma Bolt.
    • It's essentially useless for BMs, even ones abusing Strength. It needs a small buff to make it useful for players with Staves, which lose out on some stats and one damage - compared to Swords.
    • Wouldn't be easy to abuse due to limited Energy pool and lack of passives to abuse it with.

  • [Merc] Make Maul an unblockable Stun skill. Not necessary, read post #40
    • It'd retain its scaled % chance to stun, but the defense ignore would be removed.
    • It starts off with lower chance to stun than other Stun skills, but gets higher as you train it.
    • Weapon damage got lowered, so overall, even with high Strength, the damage would be lower than you would deal with Grenade/Overload with the same amount of Dex.
    • Mercenaries have a few too many blockable attacks, and the variety is quite limited (cost:power).
    • Further explanation in post #23.

  • [TLM] Buff Frenzy by up to 5% at all levels.
    • With recent weapon damage reduction and Strength progression adjustment, few months back, it was indirectly nerfed.
    • Also, with Static Charge buff, it kind of falls behind, and isn't as effective.
    • It would also provide nice synergy with Blood Shield!

  • [Bot] Lower Botanical Hazard's Poison effect, from 60% damage to 50% damage.
    • It will lower its DpT by -1, and for a total of -4 during the whole duration of Poison.
    • Adds up if looped.
    • Furthermore, if Focus and/or Robot Technology Bonus gets altered (nerfed), Poison's power may fall down once again.



    I don't focus much on the numbers, since these would be altered by the Devs anyway, so it's mostly about the concept here. Every now and then, I may edit it and add new stuff. ^^




  • DarkDevil -> RE: Small tweaks (11/24/2013 11:08:45)

    malf is on supp because it is on tm and they got both multi and overload on dex so this will be OP for a casting build.

    the first suggestion seems useless since supp only has,a very low effect in game thus this skill will be useless compared to field commander.

    the intimidate seems bad since the only alternative is spells and who can cast for 3 turns , also it is strong the way it is,compared to a shield this one attacks and reduces enemy rage gain on top of reducing damage of any skill governed by wep dmg.

    the battery backup , i think it was nerfed to not be able to cast any extreeme skill with it , and with that it will cast a lvl 3 ultimate or a max multi which doesn't seem balanced alone.

    last one about genrator is out of poison spore bot right ?
    both poison skills have only 3 turns , i don't think it should be further decreased rather i would nerf the bot to be as strong as skills because it doesn't cost 18 energy for the same effect.

    but all the other ideas are very good.




    axell5 -> RE: Small tweaks (11/24/2013 11:11:20)

    well why not make 2 different malfs? 1 for CH and 1 for TM. Or rename one of them. And i also think that static grenade SHOULD NOT scale with ANYTHING. Just have a set amount of energy(which isn't 40+).




    Ranloth -> RE: Small tweaks (11/24/2013 11:13:38)

    I've put class tags, such as "[CH]" there for a reason - Malf suggestion is strictly for CH's only, not TMs. TLM suggestion was to give them a debuff, nothing else - since each class has one and we're done with passives, so there's no harm in TLMs having a debuff. It's something I thought of on the spot, nothing else.




    Bionic Bear -> RE: Small tweaks (11/24/2013 11:13:58)

    The answer I find to static grenade is to use all my energy as fast as I can, then don't use generator/other energy regainers. It's the same with static smash.
    I would definitely like a blood shield buff, it is almost useless in its current form.




    DarkDevil -> RE: Small tweaks (11/24/2013 11:25:37)

    also for ch , multi is on dex which could make a very OP dex build for CH if you look at the way debuffs are.
    smoke is on tech and bountys got no damage skill on tech.
    malf is on supp and tms got no damage skill on support.
    malf is on supp and ch DO have masacre on support.
    on the supp side masacre costs alot and has big warmup so it pays up , on the dex side a 130 dex build can do about 70 dmg with only 34 energy using multi on 1 target in the second turn right after malf.
    i don't think this is neccessary , althought CH need a better dex build than just multi , malf won't be the answer.




    Altador987 -> RE: Small tweaks (11/24/2013 11:29:54)

    i think these are really great ideas but for static grenade if the amount taken would be reduced would there be any need to change it's improvement base? (mind you support would be a bad idea as it gives bh's a reason to focus on strength and support and let the shields protect them) definitely supported from me though these are awesome suggestions :)




    Ranloth -> RE: Small tweaks (11/24/2013 11:32:11)

    Edited the post. I've had Technology in mind yesterday, when I was thinking about the change, and I forgot Plasma Grenade improves with Tech - not Dex. XD

    For Tech, they have Plasma Grenade + EMP, so I doubt it'd make them stronger than BHs are with their Tech synergy (Smoke + Mark + Bot). Furthermore, EMP costs Energy whilst BH's Static Grenade will remain at 0 EP cost - we don't know how it'll be altered though. Lastly, even a Dex abusing build would likely invest in some Tech so they'd also have an okay debuff on hand, although not as powerful because they wouldn't have as much spare stats if they plan on abusing Dex.




    Virtual Earthquake -> RE: Small tweaks (11/24/2013 11:34:58)

    I think all the long term ideas are really great for TLM, CH, and Mercs, I think they would really help to improve balance in the classes!




    Teserve -> RE: Small tweaks (11/24/2013 12:28:26)

    Great ideas!

    Though, I think that maybe have Static Grenade be 100% and 1/2 the energy amount currently taken.




    Ranloth -> RE: Small tweaks (11/28/2013 7:56:14)

    New suggestion! ^^

  • [TM] Replace Bludgeon with a defensive skill <name here> which reduces incoming damage by x% - starts at 5%, goes up by 2% and then by 1%, for up to 15% at Level 10 - and returns 1% of incoming damage (rounded up) per level - starts at 1% and caps at 10% - as HP. Energy cost similar to Shadow Arts. Lasts for 3 turns.
    • TMs have horrid defense, and they are good on the offense but only Casters can excel in defense, not other builds.
    • HP return would be raw damage, before any defenses are calculated - so if total damage dealt is 60, you return % of it as HP.
    • Fire Scythe is a good substitute for Bludgeon already + more effective on tanks, and not mentioning it's unblockable + undeflectable.
    • Could provide an indirect HP returning skill for TMs, as well as good defense - slightly worse than SA (%-wise) but HP return would make up for it.
    • Support requirement, to prevent abuse from Casters that could loop it efficiently.


    Thanks, DarkDevil. :3




  • DarkDevil -> RE: Small tweaks (11/28/2013 8:22:46)

    seems a good idea since it will decrease how strong str tms are especially that they now got fire scythe.

    but on how it scales why not just 2 for the first 5 and 1 on the 6-10 scaling like other skills.

    or 5-15 so it will have a starting point instead of null.




    Ranloth -> RE: Small tweaks (11/28/2013 8:27:25)

    Incentive to train the skill. :) The lower the increase, the less incentive to upgrade the skill higher since the return (benefit) is lower. At least, that's what I believe, hence why maxing some skills isn't necessary at times because it offers so little boost that it's waste - see L7 -> L10 Battery, L7 -> L10 Smoke, I think Malf too.

    As a side note, it'd make the whole row of defensive skills - Matrix, Battery and my suggestion - which is pretty nifty. xD




    DarkDevil -> RE: Small tweaks (11/28/2013 8:32:16)

    the whole idea that all skills scale lower when higher is to prevent abuse , so you won't have to be lvl 10 and just lvl 5-7 is fine , and if you want to go higher you will not be as higher as you would want .




    Ranloth -> RE: Small tweaks (11/28/2013 8:34:12)

    You do have a point. xD But yeah, that could definitely work then, what you've suggested with 1-5 and 6-10. The HP return would be equal at all levels so there's also secondary incentive to upgrade it higher.

    I'll leave the exact numbers up to others. It illustrates the concept well enough, which is good for me.




    Elite Tuga -> RE: Small tweaks (11/28/2013 11:34:37)

    Great Ideas,

    Rabble froth/Titan could give these suggestions a go & see how it goes. :)




    Ranloth -> RE: Small tweaks (12/8/2013 13:39:31)

    Yet another two suggestions, and it's something that should've been done a while back to ensure some equality between classes.


  • [All] Take out the Maul requirement (Club) and Overload (Staff), so each class will have access to Stun skill without being forced to a specific weapon type.
    • Gives a bit more freedom for TMs and - especially - BMs, and Mercenaries would also have an incentive to use Swords - instead of Clubs.

  • [Merc] Make Maul an unblockable Stun skill. (may need small animation + name change)
    • It'd retain its scaled % chance to stun, but the defense ignore would be removed.
    • It starts off with lower chance to stun than other Stun skills, but gets higher as you train it.
    • Weapon damage got lowered, so overall, even with high Strength, the damage would be lower than you would deal with Grenade/Overload with the same amount of Dex.
    • Mercenaries have a few too many blockable attacks, and the variety is quite limited (cost:power).



    Personally, I believe some skills should be available regardless of what weapon type you use. Heal, Multi and Stun are the three which all classes share - and work using the same mechanics - therefore they should be equal for all classes.




  • Altador987 -> RE: Small tweaks (12/8/2013 14:20:12)

    i support every point but an unblockable stun.. the mercs have a pretty good stun as it is when it connects to make it unblockable there is no risk especially if you increase the stun chance which is why the move ignores defenses to reward you for risking a move and connecting, i know tech mages have the best stuns as theirs is unblockable and has great stun chance however theirs costs a lot more mp and the stuns of the hunters are honestly jokes especially the cyber hunter's i have yet to see anyone be stunned by a cy hunter ever... adding stun chance would be a great idea but there has to be a risk or it'd see




    kosmo -> RE: Small tweaks (12/8/2013 14:27:12)

    i like most of the suggestion, even if i would be way more drastic on the numbers.

    i agree tht tlm needs a debuff but i dont see why they couldnt just get smoke (2 class have malf, 2 class have intimidate,2 class have smoke)

    i wouldnt buff battery onestly.

    for the rest i would introduce evrything whit fixed numbers.




    Altador987 -> RE: Small tweaks (12/8/2013 14:29:28)

    they did but it was too powerful with multi, think a smoke, a multi, AND a poison, AND a surg strike 2 of which work with tech one which works with support and the other that has the best poison out of the three classes that have poison




    Ranloth -> RE: Small tweaks (12/8/2013 14:44:04)

    Smoke wouldn't hurt but I would be afraid that the Tech synergy would be a bit too good - something as good as current BHs with Static Grenade, but with Battery instead. On the other hand, there would be better synergy with Stun Grenade, but at what cost - imbalance? :/

    How about this:
  • [TLM] Replace Field Commander with a new debuff, which works in almost the same way as Omega Override (core).
    • Debuffs opponent's highest stat including stat boost from your weapons, excluding debuffs applied.
    • Improves with Dex to provide better synergy for Dex builds (blockable skills + Stun Grenade only)
    • Weaker than Smoke/Malfunction to compensate for 4-in-1 debuff; maybe -4 less base in comparison to Smoke/Malfunction, which is roughly 1 damage/defense point difference.
    • May leave Support builds a bit lackluster.




  • The Hidden Legend -> RE: Small tweaks (12/8/2013 16:18:41)

    Trans, if you believe that heal, stun, and multi should all be the same for each class then why do you have a debuff replacing tlm field medic at the beginning of your post? As for making maul usable with sword, I think that is not necessary. Strength merc is good enough enough as it is, right? Having an unblockable chance to stun with berzerker right after the stun sounds op to me. If static grenade does not scale too high with support, then I think that change would be fine. For tlm, does frenzy really need to be buffed by 5%? They are doing fine as of now, right? Maybe buffing it 2% would be good enough.




    Ranloth -> RE: Small tweaks (12/8/2013 16:43:18)

    Because Field Commander isn't Field Medic. One is +Str boosting skill, other is Heal.

    My suggestion was not to buff Strength Mercenaries, but make Stun skills equal across the board. With a Lvl 36 player and say 92 Strength (18-22), using a Sword (+34), they would get unblockable attack of 52-56 damage before defenses. To get the same damage from Overlord, I need to train it to Level 6 (53 damage), whilst "new" Maul would always deal that amount - even at Level 1 - but has lower chance to stun than other skills, to compensate for it, and surpass other skills at Level 4 (31% chance to stun).

    If need be, it could receive damage penalty due to the usefulness Strength has (as a stat) and the fact it scales with Strength and weapon damage. Let's say 85% damage penalty and the same stats used in previous paragraph: 52-56 * 0.85 = 44.2-47.6 (45-48), which is pretty fair amount of damage for this amount of Strength, and that's before defenses are accounted for! It's weaker than Strike to compensate for the chance to stun, simple as.

    Lastly, I don't see how Stun + Zerker would sound overpowered. What if you do that now, when Maul connects and you use Zerker? Even though they have plenty of Strength skills, they are all blockable... In the same way, I can say Overload + Plasma Rain is overpowered, because it may exploit my Resistance weakness, I can't block nor deflect it, and I may lose. Not only that, they have really good defenses - as opposed to Strength abusers - which means it may take some time before I can catch up with the Dex Caster, if at all!
    Can you see why this example won't exactly work? It's the same for other classes which can do similar combination of skills and make you lose just like that.




    The Hidden Legend -> RE: Small tweaks (12/8/2013 17:10:47)

    Trans, my bad, I thought something was off when I read field commander. As for stun and zerker, didn't you suggest making stun unblockable? So it will connect, and zerker cannot be blocked if the unblockable maul stuns. I didn't say your suggestion was to buff strength mercenary, I was just thinking that it might make strength mercenary op. Even though dex tm has better defenses, strength merc can keep hitting you for a lot of damage with sidearm, strike, and core. Strength merc will be extremely hard to beat especially with that new core that lowers heal chance. If dex tm uses that core on you, they won't be able to do good damage on you after their two dex moves unless they battery backup. You can then take their energy with all these new energy taking skills. Strength merc on the other hand, can stun you, zerk you, use the core, and then you will basically be doomed especially if they have static smash.




    Ranloth -> RE: Small tweaks (12/8/2013 17:27:44)

    Unless they happened to start first and stun straight away, it would almost end up in 1 hit KO, but decent Zerker will cost a hefty amount of Energy, so if you do start first can predict what's coming, you can drain their Energy and counter their strategy.

    Right now, let's remember that Maul ignores 20% of your defenses, so if you don't block, you will be in trouble because the defense ignore can be quite devastating and deal much more damage than if Maul was to be unblock able and get 85% damage penalty on top of it.

    Regardless, thanks for raising some valid points!




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