assimilation abused ? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance



Message

DarkDevil -> assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 2:36:34)

tech mages are known for their energy control.
but on the other hand everything is now around energy therefore tech mages are placed on the top of the mountain at using skills or cores as they already have the best skills.

assimilation in particular is the strongest skill of all.
i have made a build around it to backup my theory for a lvl 21 and it proved to be the easiest and strongest abusable skill.

its a 3 sided blade skill so i think one of the effects have to go down and maybe buff the other to be on par with other skills.

my ideas currently have flaws but here is what i got so far.
1. remove the regain and make it scale better to str.
2. reduce the skill effect and increase the damage done to 100%.
3. remove the damage and increase the str effect to maybe 1 every 4 points.

they all have flows so far this is why its up here , also i have not given much evedice yet so this is rather a balance discusstion not a solution.

edit:

ok so far this is what i have reached for a possible solution.
1. revert damage to 100%
2. reduce the base drain to 10 at max.
3. increase the scale to 1 point for every 6-8 points of str.


other idea is to gove it a high supp requirement , its a tier 4 skill.
on the other hand remove the reduction.
so someone with no supp nor str won't abuse it.

as 27+2 will end as 44 supp , only focus 5 or glass cannons can afford that.
also it needs to have a base of 1 instade of 7 and incrases by 2 for 1-7 and 1 fro 8-10 , since there i no cost to be paid.



Ranloth -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 9:06:10)

quote:

tech mages are known for their energy control

quote:

assimilation in particular is the strongest skill of all

quote:

3. remove the damage and increase the str effect to maybe 1 every 4 points


Wait a minute. Wouldn't #3 be the opposite of what you're trying to achieve? o.O

Currently, it scales 1 EP per +9 Strength so #3 would speed it up, greatly. With low damage coming from it - from builds that don't invest in Strength, i.e. Casters - this would only serve as a buff for them, since they hit 3 damage anyway, so no damage wouldn't be much difference.
Assimilation has always served the purpose of Energy drain and return in one, so it should remain as such - therefore, I believe #1 is out of the question. #3 seems too drastic, but in a good way, and completely opposite of what you want to achieve, no?

Therefore, it leaves #2, which is a nerf-buff. Of course, likes of Casters won't really benefit from it, other builds will do. With higher Energy drain and lower return, the skill isn't overpowered nor underpowered (it used to be blockable in the past), so a nerf-buff wouldn't hurt and be the best trade-off. They have Assimilation every 3 turns already, and drain is guaranteed, so there should be no harm or whatsoever. With Strength scaling, it increases their drain (and return) as well as damage - thanks to 15% increase.

On the other hand, if this proves to be a bit too much, there could be another mini buff which is lowering the scaling from /9 Str to /8 Str. It is very trivial, but in the long run, it's a benefit for some builds.

I'd say #2 is the best choice.



DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 9:43:42)

thank you Trans for your feedback , usefull as always [;)]



Stabilis -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 10:26:04)

quote:

assimilation in particular is the strongest skill of all.
i have made a build around it to backup my theory for a lvl 21 and it proved to be the easiest and strongest abusable skill.


Well, first of all since this is discussing changes to a skill, I am going to run through my checklist with you.

What is the balance issue? √

"assimilation in particular is the strongest skill of all."

What is the supporting reasoning? X

What is the solution? √

"1. remove the regain and make it scale better to str.
2. reduce the skill effect and increase the damage done to 100%.
3. remove the damage and increase the str effect to maybe 1 every 4 points."

Is the solution justified for the given issue? How? X

2/4, needs more information. Why? I could make the exact same thread about Frenzy. I see these threads all the time, people bring up problems they think about and solve them in the blink of an eye.



DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 10:50:02)

quote:

this is rather a balance discusstion not a solution.


for first left it like this because i was lacking info and i wanted to start collecting other ppl info while collecting mine too.

ok here is what i got so far :
the skill is abused by tank builds using it to gain rage and energy and destroy energy too having what could be called an "overflow of effect"
while it has so good benfit it barely reduces 6 dmg and is free with the turn not being "wasted" since you got rage.

what makes a mage use it 3-4 times in 1 game ?
its simple , it has very good effect , it can't be prevented and has no downside.

other draining skills have a downside of not getting rage , althought that could be balanced by the fact it drains less but a fact it is worth using when the enemy has low energy.

also some facts remain as 1 energy could destroy a skill or an entire build.

maybe the expression of strongest skill is not detailed enough , what about the most abusable skill ?

edit: i don't have an autocorrect so i edited the spell mistakes.



Mother1 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 12:02:13)

@ Darkdevil

it doesn't do 100% damage when used unlike most other attacks. That right there is a downside to this skill. Also since it does damage unlike the other energy drainers (minus energy parasite) numbers wise it is the weakest energy drainer out of the fixed ones.




DeeUnderstander -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 12:14:30)

@mother1 its not abused because it does good damage its abused because its an unblockable weaker version of the static smash. a 5F mage can have it on max and take 22 energy... nothing you can do about that. then to turn around and use battery backup just a huge boost.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 12:57:56)

TM has the best skills if you look at them individually but synergy is not all that great compared to other classes.



DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 15:14:00)

actually it has the 2nd best synergy after bountys , the only thing making bountys better synergy is that smoke is on tech while malf is on support.
otherwise every other skill synergy is way better as it is the only class in 6 which can do all the 5 builds effectively , str dex tech supp and focus 5.

we are not about synergy here but we are about assimilation.



Calogero -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 18:13:07)

Imo, they should just rework the skill...
As it stands now, each class has both an Energy Regainer and a Drainer seperate or combined.
TechMage has the, I don't know If I could call it an advantage of having an Energy Regainer in Battery Backup AND
an Energy Regainer/Drainer +damage in Assimilate.




ffeeeee -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 18:20:15)

In my oppinion this skill is too powerfull because it complements the tanky tech mages, because even if some won takes thier energy they can regain by using battery backup then



Teserve -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 19:07:56)

@above
So a skill improving w/ strength benefits a style of play stat uses very little strength?



Ranloth -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 19:10:16)

^ It scales per 9 Strength, which is very slow. Between a Caster and Focus 5 build, there'd be a difference of around +3 or +4 more EP drained.



Pemberton -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 21:09:15)

Nothing wrong with assimilation. Does 3 damage, drain 19 gain 9 (round down wow) 3 turn cooldown.
If you lose to this skill, your build probably is weak or a copied one which you don't know how to use.



GearzHeadz -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 21:10:29)

It doesn't do 3 damage, it does 85% damage.



Stabilis -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 21:51:18)

I would prefer that energy skills like Assimilation were purely energy and not damage. That would be much easier to manage.



Pemberton -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 21:58:43)

Balance is not based on personal preferences, it is based on numbers. Sorry to say.



ambien -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 22:25:32)

wait some their on saying tm has the best skills l think not, when you say assimilation abuse

still the bhs static still rips off the manna when u are hit by it. tms when hit by it will loose still all their manna. sure they can use battary back up then 1 round was wasted from the static in which the bh used.
you seemed to forget something a mage a caster mage to win has to count rounds for the skills to work right. not like other classes that have their str. to back them up for attacks.

why was not static nerf more to take only 1/4 of manna but it stills takes all you got that has not changed.

now assimlation if you look at it is not that strong in stealing manna back compared to the statics that both the bhs and mercs have. like l said you got to count rounds as a caster mage

to use casting skills when you fight bhs and mercs still with their over powered static. so assimilation has and will never be as strong as static that 2 classes have that make them oped.

so l do not know who is saying that mages have abused assimilation if so make a tm and then play with ammimlation once and you will see that it is not that over powering of a skill compared to static.

like l said play a caster mage once and you see that static for bhs and mercs are static abuse and not assimlation. btw you never get back all manna it says for assimlation when you hit maybe a 1/4 of it you from the other player you take it from all unless they have like 10--15 manna not all of it ( never like static does. )

always the syfy[:@]



Stabilis -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/7/2013 23:51:31)

quote:

Pemberton:

Balance is not based on personal preferences, it is based on numbers. Sorry to say.


No way. Impossible. Liar! How can it be?

By the by, I am not making statements about changing Assimilation if I have solutions to problems that exist (because I do not), I made a statement about how much easier it would be to balance energy skills like Assimilation if they were calculated purely on the count of energy, because energy does not transition to damage cleanly at all. I have tried converting a point of energy into damage points, but unfortunately, none of the damage skills in terms of damage over time total at the same quantity. When I have more time, I can try again.

But anyways, try not to take every little comment so seriously, it was just rhetoric. I have no analytical comments on it at this point in time. I am not making claims, Pemberton, and I am not arguing a point. I am lightly suggesting a different means of function that makes balance changes easier to manage. That is what the word "prefer" ensues. I find that fields of data that can equivocate with each other easier to balance on both sides of the scale.

Now, if I said, "Assimilation is bad bad bad- here is what to do"... then you should be worried.



DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 0:08:33)

well my opinnion was based on using tm for 22 lvls so far in less than a week for testing.

the problem is in how it scales , while it can do 3 things at once which has proven its bad preformance.

let's give an example here , old reflex boost gave energy on damage taken while reducing it which was nonsense.


it relies on str just to reduce it which is nonsense too.
in other words it improves with str while it is more effecient to not have str.
this is called abuse.

also it is nonsense for a skill to deal lower damage , cores do that but skills shouldn't.

there is a way to solve that which is to revert damage to 100% and reduce the base to 1-10 and increase the scale to 1 every 6-8 points.
this could make it less abused by non-str builds because its a str skill and that's where it should belong.

edit: added to the first post to keep new comers updated.



DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 8:58:48)

would you mind stating reasons to backup your claims , if not this could be considered unconstructive feedback.

this is not a nerf nor a buff its a nerf-buff to the right person the skill has 20 base at max which is too much and it scales too low best fitting the wrong side which are tanks so its being abused where it hurts str builds althought its on str.

if you have a better idea say it we are all waiting for good ideas.



DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 9:29:09)

comparing it to static grenade supports my current theory.
static grenade has 25 base while this one has 20 both at max , with the effect of damage it should be taken down to 10 , i don't have to repeat other concepts.

Post edited to delete reply to deleted content. ~Therril Oreb



Therril Oreb -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 11:03:53)

A few posts have been deleted. If people post in a rule breaking way, do NOT and I repeat, DO NOT reply to it. Report this to an archknight or moderator.
Also, stay respectful towards one another and keep the discussion civil and useful for everyone.



Variation -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 11:20:08)

Assimilation is a perfectly balanced skill. It has a damage penalty, it only returns 50% of what it steals and when you compare the drain to other energy drainer/returners such as Static Smash and Static Grenade you'll see that in (most cases) it drains less than those. I'm fine with the amount it drains/returns because mages have battery backup when they're in dire need of energy.

Just my thoughts.



Altador987 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 11:26:58)

^i'm actually not so sure of that, i don't see many str tms so i'm not for sure but for those who have no str it seems a little high and i believe for those who do invest in strength it's a little low but my tm is only lvl 24 so i can't say



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition
0.09375