RE: assimilation abused ?

RE: assimilation abused ? (Full Version)

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Dual Thrusters -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 11:40:04)
Well it's not like Str Tms have any better use for the energy than their Caster Counterparts.

Variation -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 11:47:08)
@Altador987: I have a level 21 TM and I'd have to invest 10 skill points into Assimilation to steal 19 energy does that really seem too high? On my level 21 BH max Static Grenade steals 37 energy. That is an 18 point difference. So when compared to other drainers/gainers from what I've seen it's weaker in that criteria, but that is fine since it does deal damage and they have Battery Backup for emergencies. Imo the skill doesn't need a buff or a nerf it seems fine.

DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 12:17:38)
this is what i am talking about we are comparing a 70+ tech static grenade to a 20 str assimilation. it should end up taking more energy than it is now at 20 str but at 60 str , this is then buffed by that your damage is increased to 100% so you are not paying a cost that makes it unusable for you. the part "abused" that you don't understand is NOT that its OP and needs a nerf BUT it is that str is not improving it but it is better to not have str and use it than having str which is why it is "abused" mainly by tank builds while useless for str builds were mainly it improves on str. tank mages currently abuse it that they don't pay the penalty because their damage is already 3 , the existance of a damage at a lower form means they still get rage so they end up paying nothing for a free skill.

Variation -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 13:09:29)
^70+ tech lol? The BH(21) only has 54 tech :P and yes it steals 37 EP maxed.

Altador987 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 13:26:33)
that depends how much strength does your mage have? as a level 36 mage with no strength can take that much at max and yes i think that's a little ridiculous seeing as my bh at almost 100 tech takes 4 at max (though mine is at lvl 6) regaining 22 and then could be left with 3 once assimilated by a 23 strength mage i don't think that adds up

Variation -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 13:41:16)
^A mage leaves you with 3 lol but what happens when a mercenary or bh leaves you with 0? I've never seen a level 36 with Static Grenade or Static Smash take less energy than a mage with max Assimilation and I'm fine with that as I've said before it does deal damage unlike the others so imo nothing is wrong with its drain. So how do you feel when a merc or bh uses their energy drainer on you? Because from what I've seen it's a lot more potent than a max Assimilation. EDIT: It has 23 strength btw.

Altador987 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 14:24:32)
i don't get angry as i plan accordingly based on the class, what i feel a lot of people don't notice is that as op as static grenade may seem if it's not used at the right moment it's a huge waste of a turn specifically because mages and mercs with 23 strength can steal what was regained with no investment in str. when a merc or bh leaves you with 0 you either battery yourself backup, or assimilate and use your other attacks such a s physical and primary and aux that is, of course assuming you invested some stats into strength so that you don't have to rely fully on skills that can possibly run out

DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 16:51:08)
my point is not about how much they get for 20 str my point is about what they pay for the skill. other classes pay a turn in order to steal. even str tm would pay 8-10 damage to use it. but a tank mage pays 6 points of rage to use it. that's not even 0.5 damage which places tank mages on top of str mages althought the skill is a str skill , str builds take a huge penalty while tanks don't. in order to fix that then str will have to have an increased rule in the skill which can be aquired by increasing damage done and reducing the base of drain and slightly increase the str scale , which you can see in the idea added in the main post. this would indeed affect the tank mages but it would bring balance upon mages themselves also stop the tank builds abuse of skill which is mentioned earlier. the difference between use and abuse is that they can always use it but they won't be better than other builds using it because mainly its on str. if someone has another solution he shall not hesitate.

The Hidden Legend -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/8/2013 20:18:23)
I think they should reduce the base amount by a few points and increase the amount it scales with strength similar to what DarkDevil said, so that it isn't abused by casters and 5f tm, but not to increase the damage to 100%. I think that it should be lowered to 75%, and that it should not count towards rage. No other energy drain skill counts towards rage except for energy parasite. Imo, it is just too easy to max out assimilation, and then steal 20+ of your opponents energy while gaining rage/doing some damage/and getting a little boost of 10+ energy without even having high strength. I also think that it would balance out strength builds nicely because it will increase the amount they steal and get back by a few points, but at the same time it won't count towards their rage which they get very quickly. That way, it will actually be a little more strategic whether they want to gain rage, or steal energy. My reason for it being lowered to 75% is so that strength builds won't steal a good deal of your energy, get a little boost back, and just miss 1 turn counting towards rage. I think that 85% is too low when you are considering strength tm.

DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/9/2013 0:18:51)
if rage was out of it then it would not get lowered but increased , and since tank mages got battery therefore they are only getting a buff while str builds getting more nerfed. its all options and its up to mods how they will fix it.

Hellion Storm -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/9/2013 8:43:30)
Assimilation is fine the way it is.

riddick951 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/9/2013 8:56:04)
Variation: assimilation everything now but not balanced, static smash convert much more energy because its power is equal with the primary attack power and that's much more than assimilation and even more than the new static grenade assimilation became useless too so the mages got weakened again

DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/13/2013 6:12:41)
you are comparing something that wastes a turn for something that doesn't , assimilation currently has no cost so its effect is even stronger , so the slight cost will have to be eliminated and the base is too high making it abused by tanks which is why it have to be reduced too.

Synner -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/13/2013 7:08:04)
Assimilate is fine no need to nerf it again

DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/13/2013 10:24:47)
this is not a nerf , its an abuse remove , also making it more usefull since it can't be used by a str build where its already a str skill. i won't repeat this again , please read the thread.

Mother1 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/13/2013 10:41:22)
@ darkdevil You are trying to make this move less useful for builds that don't use a lot of strength. This move is useful for all builds as it is, and your suggestion to change this move would undo that. That in tell would be nerfing this move.

DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/13/2013 11:19:15)
exactly. "less usefull" is what all skills are for not their main build. it will be usefull but not at its current abused state. it will have like 12 drain instead of 20 for 20 str , it will still be usefull for draining some energy to destroy an energy plan but not too strong for no penalty. its like saying that static grenade must be more usefull for a str build than a tech build , knowing that static grenade only have 29 energy at 20 tech while assimilation is 20. i think i have mentioned this before so would you please read the thread , i think everything is mentioned.

lampur1 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/17/2013 17:25:23)
Stoping the tank mage won't fix a thing. Why you ask. Cuz it has the higest win ratio about 70& 50& on my tm due to no robot. By nerfing tank mage aka caster build which has been around from beta . By nerfing it you are forcing us to go to str spamm or 5 focus which isn't as reliable as you think. (Really sorry if i got some1 mad tho and starting to defend tech abuse bh are selfish. I think if the caster gets nerfed bh must get 1 as well cuz most people already are 90& win ratio and that was last seen in delta. You may think that tm should be used alot but it isn't cuz by drain takes so much energy that we already have a hard time beating otheres due to worrying about our energy

Predator9657 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/17/2013 20:10:35)
quote: ok so far this is what i have reached for a possible solution. 1. revert damage to 100% 2. reduce the base drain to 10 at max. 3. increase the scale to 1 point for every 6-8 points of str. From the wiki: quote: Skill Level Level 1: 9 Energy Points Level 2: 11 Energy Points Level 3: 12 Energy Points Level 4: 13 Energy Points Level 5: 14 Energy Points Level 6: 15 Energy Points Level 7: 16 Energy Points Level 8: 17 Energy Points Level 9: 18 Energy Points Level 10: 19 Energy Points Stat (Strength) +1 Energy Point at 27 Strength, +1 Energy Point per 9 Strength after If the scaling was changed +1 EP / 6 Str, and the base was reduced by 9 EP to (10), for average (focus) builds, with 45-54 str, the drain at max will be 17-19. Therefore it would be a good solution to prevent abuse by casters. Edit: I forgot to add that the loss from the current str bonus (3-4 EP for 45-54str) would be sufficiently counter-balanced by buffing the damage to 100%

Altador987 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/17/2013 20:14:44)
^ actually i want tm's to be balanced (buffed here and nerfed there if that makes sense) i don't quite mind the caster build but at the same time tm's (and all classes) needn't be forced to rely on a specific build, and while we see a lot of the same bh build i've been toying with mine and there ARE other builds that work well, most of the other classes have only 2... it's not that i want tms to be nerfed i just think assimilation works really weird and needs some tweakin (as well as other skills but that's not what this specific thread is about)

DarkDevil -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/22/2013 0:37:32)
what about making it supp requirement so it won't be abuse by 20 supp. on the other hand remove the damage reduction but the requirement should be as high as masacre/ shadow arts , as 27+2 for up to 44. also make the scaling start from 1 since this skill starts from 7, and if the damage reduction was removed then there is no cost to be paid for the use. it should start 1 at 0 then +2 from 1-7 then +1 to 8-10 so it ends at 18.

xxDantExx -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/23/2013 12:15:04)
well.. it's not just that assimilation is abused but LOOP Healing comes back again... since tech mages did this b4 during beta days when Field Medic had only 3 turns cooldown at that time.... now that tech mages has both Assimilation and Battery Backup.... looks like we're getting back to the old game again... ... if they want balance i think one of those skills should be removed from the tech mage skill tree... if not,, then make Assimilation be " BLOCKABLE "....

Mother1 -> RE: assimilation abused ? (12/23/2013 12:37:19)
@ Dante Or actually make Battery backup work like the old reroute for TM while leaving it the same for TLM. This way another unique move will be for both classes, while heal looping casters get the nerf they need.

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