EpicDuel all classes Balanced (Full Version)

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kaierti1 -> EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 5:10:35)

So hi people. i have surprize for u about builds. first case i wanna say thanks to titan for better this game. but again needs some corrections in EpicDuel balance. because there are now again 80-90% Bounty Hunters which is more boreable almost all is bh just annoying. ok now lets go to the builds than suggestions about balance. i wanna help people to use best build and they back up in this game again. because that game became better but not full better, need change something. i will say next. i want help people with this build. plus like my page https://www.facebook.com/EpicDuelBuilds

1. Cyber Hunter - They are not weak as people saying. its wrong. i have for cyber hunter's fantastic builds just look at this. its my favourite http://image.geotorrents.com/images/04685050313495897093.png if first attack will not be blocked this build has high chance to win. because look: after malf 1. Static charge which is unblockable attack. 2. legion strike which doing 110% damage which is unblockable too. 3. and 4rth masscare which is unblockable too and then on rage gun also unblockable. so cyber hunters dont need high dexterity because they have all unblockable attacks. see also these builds too http://image.geotorrents.com/images/48415838327129562879.png this build is awesome because of abyss claws and using poison skill, together it is so good too u can heal only 50% of hp. and u are dieing this builds works too. also check some builds http://image.geotorrents.com/images/76917408855322977007.png and other http://image.geotorrents.com/images/44084023040315385410.png and other http://image.geotorrents.com/images/65630190002731472184.png and other http://image.geotorrents.com/images/91075736469773066332.png these are all strength builds because focus 5 build dont work against tank tech mages and sometimes against bounty hunters. they are also good in 2 vs 2

2. Tactical Mercenary - http://image.geotorrents.com/images/04832845163923592196.png i like wierdo build. he has abyss sword with spiders. he starting with poison grenade which is only 1 cool down. and then using abyss spiders because of that u will die so fast plus he has high strength 17-21 and 128 hp. this build is awesome for tactical mercenaries. its good build too http://image.geotorrents.com/images/70997105959846754922.png they are cool in 2 vs 2 too. also works support build with abyss sword too. look at this please. 1. poison grenade. 2. abyss spiders 3. aux. 4. multi and u can free energy 37 added. these 5 items works cool with abyss sword and with support build for tactical mercenaries see picture http://image.geotorrents.com/images/87828507550571789605.png

3. Mercenary - these class is not bad too. i like them. look builds. http://image.geotorrents.com/images/99531333633077151588.png these focus 5 build is awesome. starting with normal strike, or with intimidiate or with hybrid armor use. then he is hard on 4 attack and u cant do many damage against him. also see these builds http://image.geotorrents.com/images/87029608482608102642.png and this http://image.geotorrents.com/images/37294459147690674264.png and this http://image.geotorrents.com/images/50198902522388625735.png it is all strength builds which is so good with high dex for low chance to block and if stun works they have high chance to win. these builds works awesome. in 2 vs 2 too. this strentgh build is good with piston punch!

4. Bounty Hunter - when u are bh not matter which build u have because all builds are best because of high energy steal static grenade 42-48. this is op skill again. i will say something in suggestions. i dont like so many bounty hunters.

5. Tech Mage - i will decide this tank tech mage and focus 5 or strength tech mage. i will not say anything about tank tech mages, i will say in suggestions also as bounty hunter's static grenade i said up. so start focus 5 build with. look this picture http://image.geotorrents.com/images/98306546652603244235.png this is normal focus 5 tech mage with is perfect example how must be this game! i like them. they are so good in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 too. with abyss staff high heal lvl and with high hp. and look this is strength tech mage which i like too so much http://image.geotorrents.com/images/93335617383404881963.png just it is awesome u must choose what build u must set str or focus 5. or another variant see such strength tech mages too http://image.geotorrents.com/images/52436589603576489183.png and this http://image.geotorrents.com/images/02969361752611126333.png

6. Blood Mage - my class. i think this class is weakest now. because look when i have focus 5 build its not bad against tank tech mages and sometimes against strength people but its bad against bh and some str builds. if i have strength build it is not bad against bh and str but it is 100% unfair against tank tech mages. energy parasite noone using beceause there are so many bounty hunters and focus 5 build with max energy parasite dont works against them against bh-s almost all battles are unfair i checked. so i want show u 2 builds. 2 strength. which is normall against str builds, bh focus 5 and bh str builds and against support builds but not good against TANK tech mages 90-95% unfair always. this is my old build which i liked so much http://image.geotorrents.com/images/23444609956801342154.png and this is skynet build which i set from yesterday and its not bad too http://image.geotorrents.com/images/94861951940672195328.png



my suggestions

1. Tank Tech Mage - this is most terrible build which is blockable, deflectable with high tech, plus with good protect u cant do many damage, tank tech mages medicine is bounty hunter and maybe focus 5 blood mage but they are best against: support builds, strength builds, other all classes. i dont like because it is 100% unfair almost always. and i support to destroy this build, because we are bored so much just look: 1. plasma cooldown is only two. 2. assimilation damage deald 85% and unblockable (on rages too) plus steal 20-22 energy. 3. supercharge with 44 energy and 25% lifesetal. 4. energy backup free 37 energy. 5. plus high hp 100 and 26-32 +10 dex and 37-45 tech. go and win over that build. this class killing epicduel i think. just look how u can defeat them if u have energy weapon primary or if u are not bounty hunter? http://image.geotorrents.com/images/42057187367259263937.png and look http://image.geotorrents.com/images/21824591599042806239.png and this http://image.geotorrents.com/images/62973895646257605799.png we dont want close game, many deflections, low damages, many blocks. we need free and open game as was delta. my suggestion for tank tech mages is that energy backup stats required change to: support instead of none. but this maybe bad for such build http://image.geotorrents.com/images/93335617383404881963.png but there is next variant. supercharge change to stats required: support instead of dexterity. this will be better. and 2nd suggestion: plasma cool down need change from 2 to 3. this is necessary in all case!

2. Bounty Hunter - i think they are best because of only 1 skill static grenade. need really balance. see my suggestions: of course static grenade need improve with: none instead of technology. now they are stealing many energy and they have strength build which is almost unstopable. http://image.geotorrents.com/images/99935367972954525367.png with this build they stealing 38-42 energy and plus using strength build plus they dont need support because of smoke screen dont need many support and improve with technology, it is not right. they are cool because of stealing many energy 42-48 about (<<< this is magic) we dont wanna steal so many energy!), which is op skill now. so see my sentences. 1. steal 25 energy and 100% back with 3 cool down. 2. steal 35 energy and 50% back with 4 cool down.

3. Mercenary - they are cool as i said with stun and strength build and with hybrid armor using. i wish static smash be unblockable

4. Cyber Hunter - dont need nothing. i showed u many builds how u can win and be hard

5. Tactical Mercenary - with abyss sword tactical support build and strength build is awesome, because then u can only 50% heal but need poison grenade change from 1 cool down to 2.

6. Blood Mage - i dont know how enhance this class. maybe energy parasite stats required change to none, or dex, or tech instead of support because they are weakest look please this. 1. energy backup is stats required: none (tactical mercenary and tech mage) 2. assimilation stats required: none (tech mage) 3. static grenade stats required: none (bounty hunter) 4. atom smasher stats required: none (tactical mercenary) 5. Static smash stats required: none (Mercenary) 6. Static charge stats required: none (Cyber hunter) and only energy parasite is stats required: support. this is worst skill ever. 15% energy steal don't work if ur enemy has 0-35 energy. this is so bad. need this things together for energy parasite: 1. change to stats required: none instead of support. 2. energy drain increase to 20% steal, or again 15% and increase back energy drain from 1,5x to 2x. one of them need. 3. i know it is unblockable and deals 5 damage which is not good because assimilation deals 85% damage and it is unbloackable plus rageable, static charge deals 100% damage it is unblockable and no rageable and energy parasite is unblockable but dealing only 5 damage and on rage damage is only 12-14 which is worst damage. need change one of them 85% or 100% because now are 5 damage and u are losing turn using of this skill. make this skill unrageable as static charge and deals 85% damage as assimilation or 100% instead of 5 damage


i am happy that coming 40 lvl. it is so good i want say big thanks to titan but this game is not already good, need some corrections and i am glad if mods team will read and consider my suggestions. that was my idea look when i wrote to help team this letter 10 october about 40 lvl see picture http://image.geotorrents.com/images/31766434578941718541.png plus my suggestion about drain energy see my post http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21521195 and plus about poison bot read this post http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21522050 they did my 3 request and i hope they guess i want only good for this game. thanks all for attention

i wanna say one more thing. example between "vs"

TANK tech mages vs - focus 5: bounty hunter and blood mage. u can play 50-50% chance (i dont know how playing str bounties against tank tm)

TANK tech mages vs - any strength build, any support build and almost any focus 5 build (but not focus 5: bh and bm), winning tank tech mages! (not str bounty hunters because i dont know how)

Str Bounty Hunters vs - almost all classes and almost all builds they have about 80-90% win chance which is not right (not tank tech mages because i dont know)

Focus 5 bounty hunters vs - strength builds and support builds and tank tech mages, they have 80-90% win chance over them

These happens because of static grenade stealing so many energy 42-48. and tech mages is so much boring this game! need nerf them!!!


Post edited to remove unnecessary content ~M4B



DarkDevil -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 5:41:16)

quote:

we dont wanna steal so many energy!

who is we ? , and how is "you" in "we" ?
i have explained this a thousand times already , bounty's emp main purpose is to destroy alot of energy ever since beta , this won't change , the steal was added because every class must have a way to regain energy.

either all energy regains and drains have to go down or other energy regaining skills have to go up.



kaierti1 -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 6:23:12)

DarkDevil,
quote:


just making a point of standards.
concepts can't be broken.

emp 100% drain 50 (needs a buff)
static grenade 40 drain 20 regain.
static smash 35 drain 25 regain.
25 drain 25 regain ??????

see as the concept of static grenade is to destroy alot of energy , it rests between emp and static smash.

so either all energy drainers or regainers have to be reduced or energy regainers must increase.

also the fact you got 140 points and up to 235 energy , using base energy in calculating energy is just like saying malf takes 30 tech out of the 20 tech base which is OP.


i have no problems on mercenaries. because they have or str builds or tank builds. if tank builds they can not steal many energy because static smash steal energy depends on primary damage (str). if merc has str build 35 energy steal is max what u said. and 40 energy steal with static grenade is lowest! normally merc stealing 28-30 energy and 21-23 back and it is blockable!, and normally static grenade doing from 44 energy to 48 energy (with 30-36 and 32-39 tech) and back 22-24. i dont have problem with redrain but 44-48 energy stealing this is not right. as i said need or 1. steal 25 energy and 100% back with 3 cool down. 2. steal 35 energy and 50% back with 4 cool down. this is trouble example for blood mages. just look: 1. str build cyber hunter has unblockable static charge and plus emp. 2.mercenary has static smash with str build. 3. str tech mage has assimilation and energy backup. 4. str tct merces has atom smasher and energy backup. 5. str bh has static grenade. and left 6. str blood mage. we dont have energy parasite because this skill stats required: 42 support and plus it is weak skill and if bh stole energy we cant play! unfair almost. all str classes can drain and redrain energy but not str blood mages. this is horrible. first case need ep change stats required: none instead of support. and then we will look battles against all classes because we want play with energy receiving skill as all can play!

DONT FORGET WE HAVE ONLY 62 ENERGY. AND THEY STEALING 44-48 YES? 71%-77% STEALING. AND IS IT RIGHT? IF WE HAVE 80 ENERGY AND THEY WILL STEAL 50% = 40 MAYBE THIS WILL NOT BE PROBLEM BUT IN OTHER CASE STR BLOOD MAGES NEED ENERGY DRAIN SKILL (EP STATS REQUIRED: NONE)



Tri Phoenix -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 6:40:36)

i read the whole story and realized that u are only asking to enhance blood mage and all the other classes are balanced, which is 100 % wrong chs are really weak merc is normal and balanced tech mage is a little bit stronger and tactical mercenary is little weak bm is weak and for bhs they are op so the admins only have to do is to nerf bhs or buff other classes or nerf bh and buff ch bm and tlm little way.

from u u are only asking to buff bms, and i guess u only added the builds here which i guess u lose to alot of times, which btw u are discussing wrong because i bet most of the builds u put there could be beaten easy, u my friend @kaierti are bm and u couldnt figure out a build of defeating this builds so u are asking the game mods and admins to buff only bms. but we dont want 1 class to be dominant in this game we want total balance and not 1 class ruling the whole game.

so the admins and the moderators have to do some thing about cyber hunters, blood mages and tactical mercenary ( i think ) and most important Bounty hunters .

because if they only buff or nerf 1 class at a time, balance will get even more screwed then it is now.



kaierti1 -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 6:54:26)

Tri Phoenix,
ch is weak against bh and tank tech mages. not more. and thats why are u saying this. im talking about nerf static grenade steal energy and nerf tank tech mages. nothing more. and i need play with energy skill but i cant now, thats my problem (because of ep stats required: support). maybe energy parasite dont need buff and maybe u are right because im playing good against tank tech mages with focus 5 build and max lvl parasite but it is weak if ur enemy has 0-35 energy and against all bh-s almost. what about bm build u ar enot right i won many battles see my 3 video with this build which i putted here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBVF7oC5gE0 and 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK7TvmBaPAA and 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W_b6Pdsb8k

i will say again. only need these things.

1. static grenade need lower steal energy

2. nerf tank tech mages, plasma cooldown increase to 3 and supercharge stats required: support (or energy backup stats required: support if not supercharge)

3. need energy parasite ep change to stats required: none.

if u dont believe its not problem but what i putted here "infernal emperor" this player win over me 8-9 times of 10. cyber hunter is not weak and tactical merc is not weak too (WITH ABYSS WEAPON) and maybe dont need energy parasite buff but we are all weak against bounty hunters and against tank tech mages. that is problem.



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 6:56:11)

So TLM isn't weak if you own a specific weapon. Why am I being forced to a specific weapon just to be on par? What if I can't afford it?



DarkDevil -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 7:00:50)

the word nerf or buff isn't really a solution.

if you are complaining about static grenade reaching 48 at 140 tech then a solution can be done such as decreasing tech scale and making it scale with lvl so that its "tech abuse" will be reduced.
if you are complaining about it draining 40 then you should suggest to reduce the drain to 4/5 of what it is and increase the regain by ~20% so the skill purpose will slightly shift from being high drain to lower drain and more regain.

yet you should not spam it unless it comes up.

furthermore there are 2 kinds of classes.
energy classes and health classes.
energy classes as tm and tlm and cyber (cyber needs a buff on the regain yet i won't discuss this here) don't have a way to regain hp (frenzy should be replaced with smoke and some tweaks on other tlm skills but i won't discuss this here either).

health classes as merc and bm and bh can effectively regain hp using mark of blood or blood commander but they don't effectively regain energy.

you are misplacing bloodmage to be an energy class which is untrue.

for stating balance you should state solutions and not spam them , since a long speech won't change staff mind on something.

also a tip when dealing with balance is to separate things into 3 : idea , mechanism , magnitude , and see which could change instead of just "nerf" or "buff".



kaierti1 -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 7:02:24)

Trans,
i showed u strong TLM build, weapons and tactic. u can use this. wierdo 2-3 days ago was in leaderborad top place (3 or 4 or 5) and he had 83% or 85% 1 v 1. if u dont use abyss sword maybe u will be weaker because every small thing is important.



DarkDevil -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 7:15:24)

using an OP wep to say a class is strong is non-sense.
any class with an OP item will be strong , also you are saying he is strong because of a wep , which means without it hes not.
this is getting off-topic to be a discussion about a core instead of classes.



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 7:22:43)

If you must rely on a specific item to compete, it shows the class is imbalanced. Balance between classes means they should be able to compete, whatever the combination of cores is - some better than the others for specific builds, but not exactly dependant on an item alone.



Tri Phoenix -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 7:42:54)

Trans is absolutely right here !!!



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 7:50:59)

TLMs and CHs have terrible synergy between the skills, which makes them underpowered. I have alts, and they cover all the classes - I have 6 chars total - and I do play on my TLM and CH. TLMs always struggled with variety and synergy between skills, and barely had any builds that could work effectively.
CHs are doing a bit better, but their synergy is also quite poor - which is likely Static Charge's fault, since it falls back greatly, behind all the EP returning skills. Its return should be boosted, and synergy should improve - SC depends on damage, to return Energy, as opposed to other skills.



Hellion Storm -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 7:53:54)

I'm curious to see how good blood mage would be if they had assimilation and a energy type fire scythe.



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 7:57:55)

Depends what skill you'd replace for E Fire Scythe - probably Bludgeon. I can tell you one thing - it'd be disastrous. BMs can do better Str-based builds than TMs, and take advantage of Assimilation even more - which also scales with Strength. Mark of Blood would also go well with high damage, so it'd be similar to the old Str BMs (prior to removal of passives) but with stronger Energy drain/return skill.

IMO, Energy Parasite just needs its damage penalty to be drastically lowered - perhaps to 85% damage, like Assimilation. Skill in itself is good if timed properly, but the damage penalty renders it quite weak. :s



kaierti1 -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 8:00:03)

Trans,
i saying that abyss sword helps people to win. and what i put builds CH and TLM it is not bad they can win over me many times. as i said: 1. malf(blockable). 2. legion strike. (unb) 3. static charge (unb) 4. masscare(unb). 5. gun rage (unb). CH is not bad now they have many unblckable attacks. plus TLM with abyss sword with poison grenate they are strong too support build or str build, because when u have rutchling rush and + poison grenade u cant do anything, heal not work! but maybe they are weak against tank tm and bh. and need nerf bh and tank tm, not buff CH and TLM. and on BM i want only that ep stats required: none. need change. i have strength build and i cant getting energy because of low support and i dont need support on strength build!

energy parasite - make this skill unrageable as static charge and deals 85% damage as assimilation. and of course stats required: none instead of support for use str build with ep



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 8:03:19)

quote:

because when u have rutchling rush and + poison grenade u cant do anything, heal not work!

And yet, in the other thread, you're saying the core is perfectly balanced. But here, you use it as a counter-argument that TLMs are strong, or even too strong.

I shouldn't be forced to use specific item to compete. What if I can't afford it? What if I need other weapon for my build? Only because CHs and TLMs win vs. you, that doesn't make them balanced. They lose to me, therefore, does that make them underpowered? No.



Hellion Storm -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 8:05:59)

quote:

Depends what skill you'd replace for E Fire Scythe - probably Bludgeon. I can tell you one thing - it'd be disastrous. BMs can do better Str-based builds than TMs, and take advantage of Assimilation even more - which also scales with Strength. Mark of Blood would also go well with high damage, so it'd be similar to the old Str BMs (prior to removal of passives) but with stronger Energy drain/return skill.

IMO, Energy Parasite just needs its damage penalty to be drastically lowered - perhaps to 85% damage, like Assimilation. Skill in itself is good if timed properly, but the damage penalty renders it quite weak. :s


Maybe they should go a step further and make it unblockable, no damage penalty and unable to crit or rage. Its too easy to dump your energy in this meta which is why it makes energy parasite bad. or they can dump the damage penalty altogether.

Edit:perhaps 85% damage make it only work for 2 turns with a 3 turn cooldown and increase its drain and return to make more effective.



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 8:11:07)

If timed properly, Energy Parasite can be almost as good as Assimilation, but in terms of return, it's superior by far. It will be the damage penalty which severly cripples the skill - especially, as you mention, one can dump their Energy and you end up dealing ~5 damage, and drain/return almost nothing.



Hellion Storm -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 8:12:51)

Thats true maybe the damage needs to be looked at.



Tri Phoenix -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 10:26:14)

assimilation is now more of an energy taker then the giver and the energy parasite totally dominates assimilation in energy taking and giving if the opponent has high energy



Dual Thrusters -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 10:55:22)

@kai

You do realize that all those CHunter builds were all similar ._.

Try tank with sword for once. Heck, try making a multi shot build.



kaierti1 -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 11:33:49)

i only want help people to find their builds. this builds help u to win battle. but all player has another luck, cores, weapons, tactic and etc. i want that every class must be stronger. people asking advice and asking to put lvl ?? build. it is so pleasure i am helping them to find best builds and play well



Dual Thrusters -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 11:45:35)

A class is balanced if all of its skills are actually usable, and have at least some synergy.

Meaning Tech Mage and Bounty Hunter are the most balanced classes in the game.



Ranloth -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 12:01:57)

I'd place Mercenaries close too, with TMs and BHs. They have variety of skills, and quite a good synergy for different build - apart from Dex, but that one is still invested into, for blocking/defense. BMs may have a bit poorer synergy, but that doesn't make them as weak as likes of CHs and TLMs - with awful synergy - since Energy Parasite could use altering (read above for more) and perhaps bringing Fireball on par with Plasma Bolt, since Strength abuse is no more - or at least, not as efficient.



FrostWolv -> RE: EpicDuel all classes Balanced (12/15/2013 12:11:24)

Well for me balance is:

Class with synergy
Class with energy flow
Class with skill-tree

As for CH only available synergy is Strength and NOTHING else

Str synergy ---> SC (bound to use), Massacre (nerfed after damage of wrist blade lowered to 33), Cheapshot gives +2-3 damage
Tech synergy ---> none
Dex ---> none
Support ---> none
Class with energy flow ---> EMP as a drainer is inferior to SG as it costs energy, and Static Charge is Strength oriented only

Skill tree ---> worst skill tree

______________________________________

side note Posting people's build wont prove anything -.-" (u even have mine posted -.-"" and I personally never advertise and dont like it)



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