When energy reaches 0... Support becomes pretty useless... and so does investing in energy (Full Version)

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edwardvulture -> When energy reaches 0... Support becomes pretty useless... and so does investing in energy (12/21/2013 12:53:51)

Ok, here's the problem, builds that don't invest in support or energy and choose instead of to life,strength, and decent tech and dex, is most likely going to beat out builds that do have little support in 0 energy state, which is when all the energy is gone which happens in a lot of battles. I don't know how one would fix this but the fact is that if there are no criticals in a situation like this then buidls with moderate or high support are always going to be beat. Also, energy is a pretty bad investment, for example, there are no massacre builds anymore. I've tried making one and it was extremely ineffective.
How we could fix this is....
Add new evasive effects like block or deflect that scales on support.
Give support some block and deflection chances.
Make crits more effective...

Also we need incentives for putting stat points into energy.

Discuss



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/21/2013 12:58:25)

Its been obvious since forever that support is a weak stat, I ain't gonna listen to that "well it increases this and this and this" No, nobody invest in support or energy, they get enough for 5 focus and keep it there, sometimes people will add their bonus +12 stat to it to get better first strike chances. Too much babying with how much energy you can regain now. Energy management? Doesn't exist, you burn your energy and steal your opponents if and or use a simple skill to get it all back.

I agree.



DarkDevil -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/21/2013 14:11:08)

i think in order to put supp usefull is to increase the crict scale on supp while keeping the cap.
so someone with 60 supp against someone with 20 supp will have higher chance to crict.

like supp/5 instead of 7.



edwardvulture -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/21/2013 16:25:16)

What if we scaled gun damage on tech and support and also bring back a small chunk of deflection back in to support. while making strength-related moves actually increase with strength instead of being static.



Steel Slayer -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/21/2013 16:34:02)

quote:

i think in order to put supp usefull is to increase the crict scale on supp while keeping the cap.
so someone with 60 supp against someone with 20 supp will have higher chance to crict.

like supp/5 instead of 7.


Good idea. Also, how about we let support raise stun chance, instead of only being able to reduce it?



Stabilis -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/21/2013 16:54:24)

quote:

I don't know how one would fix this but the fact is that if there are no criticals in a situation like this then builds with moderate or high support are always going to be beat. Also,energy is a pretty bad investment, for example, there are no massacre builds anymore. I've tried making one and it was extremely ineffective.


Perhaps it has something to do with everyone having a skill to drain energy?



edwardvulture -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/21/2013 17:06:06)

what if every class had an energy regen and they add a 5th tier of skills, also support does increase chance to stun



Steel Slayer -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/21/2013 18:00:30)

Not unless they changed it yesterday, edwardvulture, support has always only been able to reduce stun chance, not increase it. Wiki link to Battle Mechanics page provided for corroboration, stun calculations are listed under Quick Reference.



edwardvulture -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/21/2013 21:37:43)

quote:

If the attacker has more support than the defender, the attacker will NOT increase the chance to stun the defender.


wow, this must be new cuz I always thought it was the other way around.



edwardvulture -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/22/2013 16:05:24)

edited nvm Nobody is viewing my other topic



xxxromanxxx4 -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 18:50:57)

moment of genius <-----

why don't we make support decrease deflection and block effect. The more support you have the more damage you will deal if your attacks are blocked / deflected




GearzHeadz -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 18:52:07)

Oh man, support builds would go through the roof in overpoweredness.



edwardvulture -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 19:22:11)

Hm I have never though of support as an anti-luck stat. I don't think it would be over powered. It might bring the strength-support tech mage build back. I dearly missed that build being effective as I just tried it yesterday and lost 5 times in a row. Which might be a record but I believe I've done worse.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 19:23:13)

Giving support amazing offensive and defensive capabilities. Yeeaaah. I see that as overpowered.



CN2025 -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 19:35:47)

they nerfed support cause of those bonuses no point trying



edwardvulture -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 19:44:41)

but support is only defensive if you have energy. Unless you count not getting crit as defensive.



Teserve -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 20:06:34)

Support is kind of weak, I agree.

@above
I think that what GearzHeadz means by support having defensive capabilities is that many shields improve with support or have support req.

@xxxromanxxx4
That would mean you could pump pure/semi-pure support builds and have great shields so that covers defense, and go some strength and if you get blocked/deflected it won't even matter because the reduction will be negligible.



edwardvulture -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 20:18:19)

^yep but they only work if you have energy



GearzHeadz -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 20:34:32)

That's not what I meant, I meant you'd be giving support great defensive abilities if you would make support increase block/deflect damage. I did word it wrong though, it would give it anti-defense abilities. Which would still over-power it nonetheless.



edwardvulture -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 20:39:12)

I read roman's idea wrong. I'd like it more if it was the rates that block/deflect rates go down with investment in support.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 20:50:39)

Still, would overpower it.



Pemberton -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 21:14:17)

Less support = more win
More support = more lose



GearzHeadz -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 21:38:25)

I have 45 support and I have a pretty good ratio.



edwardvulture -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/25/2013 21:52:05)

Because its a 5 bonus build... I don't think an anti-luck effect on support would overpower anything if it was scaled correctly.

Also, here's my ideas from the other thread that I don't feel like posting in anymore.
1.Gun and Aux damage from tech and support (damage comes from tech more than support)
From a logical perspective, this makes a lot more sense.
From a balance perspective, it might make things better.
Deflections could come from tech and support.
This would counter act the strength/dex combo in striking builds where there are 0 energy left in battle.

Also, strength could be buffed by allowing skills that "improve" with it by having percentages to go up on the weapons part of it.

2.Incentive to invest in energy:
-Have skills based on energy cap
ex. Surgical strike increasing with both Technology and Max Energy.
-Add Parry: reduces damage by 30% scales, on energy cap
-Also dex could be put in here to if too much of this makes it seem like a bad stat to invest in




DarkDevil -> RE: Low Support+Low MP+High Life+ good other stats (12/26/2013 2:50:30)

what about increasing the effect of supp on rage gain too , so 18 supp will have rage every 6-7 turns against someone with 60-70 supp while he is getting a rage every 3-4 , so ppl with high str could be countered by supp.

increasing the caps by 15% up and down and slightly increasing supp effect in it will balance it IMO.



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