RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (Full Version)

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DeathGuard -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/28/2013 16:27:28)

That's the problem, it is just an illusion, not reality. Tricking players is something that will have an aftereffect on the game, not advantages but disadvantages to the game.



suboto -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/28/2013 16:27:54)

the only thing i see wrong with the game is the heal cut 50% primary thats seasonal rare but yet has the equal power as a promo primary. if they would cut it to -30% heal or 85% dmg when used.



darkllord233 -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/28/2013 16:41:26)

Wrong thread dude. ~Vampi



edwardvulture -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/28/2013 16:43:13)

The achievements that come with the Personal Battle Record has the potential to make this game more competitive and engaging than ever while removing visible loses can effectively bring back many players and giving casual players a break. Nobody loses here.



Scyze -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 5:39:22)

There is no data suggesting it's going to be 100% successful. It might be successful in bringing some people back but it's not going to bring a lot of players. Most left because NPCs wouldn't count towards your battle records. Just because some people have said they will play doesn't mean they will never get bored. Losing makes the game boring for people, winning makes it fun.



edwardvulture -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 18:38:03)

But ITS IMPLIED that people do NPC's for exp and creds and to improve win rates. Remove win rates and just count the win, what do you get? Massive hordes of players coming back. But it might be too late.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 19:00:29)

Honestly, most of us could easily agree it wouldn't make a difference. How they were defeated on the end is what makes being defeated stressful. What players mainly want is their defeats to be less stressful. Many do not even care that it's on a record or not.



edwardvulture -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 19:13:34)

^Not as in how as in THAT they were defeated. Taking away the stress of a defeat is letting it go. Removing loses is improving the game. There would be no stress of a defeat if there were no consequences to losing.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 19:20:52)

Clearly you don't understand what everyone else does. It's not the consequence of being defeated, you still get credits and exp, and most could care less about their records. Mainly the more hardcore players care about their records. It's the fact that they're losing due to flaws in the system that angers most players. Loses anger players because they were defeated due to imbalancement.



edwardvulture -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 19:30:42)

Please read the entirety of the first post before we continue this argument.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 19:45:42)

I already have. And I'm still saying this. I don't see how not having a record will prevent build copying either, after all winning is fun to most of the masses not winning and accumulating a record. The part that does enjoy the records is significantly smaller. I've never met a player say "well, my record is so bad I should give up" no it's always, "I'm losing so much I don't even find the game pleasurable"



edwardvulture -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 19:49:35)

quote:


-Quote from MrBones
quote:

Every single player wants to win at least 85 % of their fights. This is impossible and no balance changes will ever make it so.
Now in a 'perfect' balance scenario, between two skilled players, how would the winner be determine ? Luck ? Who wants to have 'coin toss' battles ?

Ah! here's my insight and response to that. it would be alright to have "coin toss" battles if loses didn't go on your record because for that moment luck was just not in your favor and since it isn't recorded, you can just move on.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 19:51:10)

Yes glad you know what came from your post, unfortunately, that isn't relevant to what I just said.



edwardvulture -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 19:58:58)


ah.... I saw that you just edited it. <------ irrelevant

Winning is fun. That means losing isn't. So if we made loses a "nothing to lose" scenario then players will have fun more often?

quote:

it's always, "I'm losing so much I don't even find the game pleasurable"

Then they need to rebuild themselves and become a better player.



ResistTheNWO -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 20:03:58)

there's your main word= GAME...therefore wins & losses shouldn't be taken seriously. You gain nothing from winning nor from losing.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 20:07:42)

It's still the fact that they lost. Not that they lost to skill, but due to being imbalanced. Most players are perfectly fine losing to someone that is skilled. But when losing to someone because they using the flavor of the week build is what causes stress. Why? Because it happens over and over and over and over and over again.

They need to rebuild themselves? Rebuilding yourself is understandable. But when your class is bad because of imbalance, then how is changing your build going to help? You are still imbalanced, and because of that you will still lose.



ResistTheNWO -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 20:09:26)

ignore Mother1, bro. For your own good, she's a well known troll



GearzHeadz -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/29/2013 20:17:18)

A well known troll... Mother1 is one of the players that is actually interested in balance and logic. Noone knows her as a troll.



Scyze -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/30/2013 6:32:24)

Your opinions are very biased at times, believe it or not, Mother1 being called a troll is just rude. Someone who has logic and probably a better mind than you = troll. So Trans and RabbleFroth are also trolls?

I keep thinking that you, edwardvulture, don't understand what I post. When you get rid of losses counting, it's not going to accomplish a lot, if not anything. You will still lose and that means you're not going to have much fun as you're describing. If I had a hundred battles and 80 losses, and the losses don't count, do you think I will have fun? No I won't because I'm losing a lot.



Drianx -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/30/2013 14:44:05)

I support this idea.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/30/2013 14:46:37)

Thank you Scyze... I've been trying to explain to him this, but he just won't understand.



Igneous -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/30/2013 16:12:05)

RE: Omit Losses + Incentives for **Competitive Players ( why this **designated exclusivity, should be "any and all" )

--Hmmm, I think both sides have valid opinions. I see that I am about the 14th person to chime in...
- my vote "it's not that I hate seeing my losses tallied - but I feel so much better when I am not looking at them"

my *opinion: *the % ratios show all you need to know about your losses
*I don't think it would hurt the game if they "privatize" loss ratio ( seems logical if possible - get's my vote )
*I don't think it would hurt the game to "hide" the losses? ( they can't be removed - or they lose the % ratios )

So my questions at this point - ( apart from any other possible details of concern in this topic )
1.) If these changes were implemented?
----a.) Would anyone quit because of these changes only? ( *don't think so..)
----b.) Would free player retention and existing player upgrades increase? ( *believe so..)
----c.) Would free player base expand which is needed to expand paying customer base? ( *wouldn't shrink.. )

[BTW: I spent money then quit playing, but more for ~"why 1 one mission at a time" discouraged me - Q&A ~different post]

Respects to all of you...

( added edit: Point Of Order: personally directed remarks are not considered valid opinion nor helpful for the purpose of any subject. )



Drianx -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (12/30/2013 17:22:33)

Some previous posts made me laugh.

I find it amusing that some people believe that removing losses will hide players' real skill.

Come on, does anyone really care if one has 11,000/2,000 or 11,000/5,000 win ratio? Does it really make anyone feel special?

Who is the most skilled player in the game right now? Is it comicalbiker because he has most wins? Has anyone defeated him? Does anyone know that there are players with thousands of wins and only several losses? Are those the most skilled players then?

As you can see, it is hard to tell whether the win ratio can really speak out about a player's skill. Therefore it is rather pointless defending Epicduel's 'competitive' gameplay, when it is impossible to say if someone is better than you based only on his win/loss ratio.

Therefore, just as MrBones said, go ahead and open the game. Some people are here for the PVP. Others are here for the NPCs. Others are only hunting achievements. Others are only here because of their friends. Let them all enjoy the game, one way or another.



edwardvulture -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (1/13/2014 10:57:35)

^yep

quote:

I keep thinking that you, edwardvulture, don't understand what I post. When you get rid of losses counting, it's not going to accomplish a lot, if not anything. You will still lose and that means you're not going to have much fun as you're describing. If I had a hundred battles and 80 losses, and the losses don't count, do you think I will have fun? No I won't because I'm losing a lot.


You're winning exp and credits while not having a lose stain your record. Even if you are really losing, the illusion that you are winning something just for playing a game is enough to keep players playing. This is why we have the media. It is an illusion so people can stop feeling bored with their own lives.

I've talked to Gearz in game, he doesn't even care about his record, what I don't get is his strong opposition to this idea though... if he doesn't care about his record.



GearzHeadz -> RE: Omit Loses + Incentives for Competitive Players (1/13/2014 15:44:02)

I've told you, I disagree with the way you say this is the only solution. I don't care about my record, it's awful. But even without a lose on record, it's still a lose. Losing is losing no matter what. No matter how many times you want to say otherwise.



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